League of Legends

"Demacia is Evil?" I can understand why people might consider that as a thing but it isn't.

And why are they using the child soldiers thing as their only offense? It's their greatest one but the fact that they are overly lawful dicks should be good enough. Anyone who believes in their righteousness that much are far from "good".

They MIGHT be evil but not willfully so like Noxus is. But both sides are pretty darned might is right LAWFUL, it just so happens that Demacia is stricter about it and thus n the eyes of normal people, slightly less desirable. Their righteous zeal is akin to religious extremists, also they paint themselves too much as all bright and light and good.

Some of them are, but it reeks of painting crap with a fresh coat of paint. I don't agree with these theoretical people you interact with but I can understand their perspective. They're just arguing it wrong.

You bring up a lot of theoretical people you seem to interact with a lot and don't agree with in this thread. Are you oaky? Do you need new social circles?

Yeah I was also gunna ask what was wrong with Sona...she is pretty decent as of late. Certainly, she does not offer the control that Janna or Nami give as supports but this does not invalidate her strong poke, heal, and ult.

Rammus is just hilarious to charge into people with the boots of mobility, homeguard, and Q. NO ONE CAN RUN AWAY. Too bad when I pick him, someone feeds their AP champ.

I always find Rammus the most fun when I basically out-live various enemy champion strikes and kill them in their persistence with health to spare.

Once you go Rammus you... You never go... you always... Uh... Um...

I need something that rhymes with Rammus under the condition that I pronounce it "Rawm-Us".

Interact seems to be not quite accurate, but let's just say I observe... and then find out that I tend to think NOT like what the common people think of, and some just seem to overblow it. Maybe it's because I entered League way after JoJ and League Judgment have been discontinued.

Probably this is why I tend to refer myself as the 'Oddball Gamer'. I nearly always have oddball opinion that clashed with the common opinion. In a hipster way or something. Like for example: Me liking both LOL and DOTA, in spite that both sides are always at war and it seems like you're only allowed to pick one side. P.S: I know some people here also likes DOTA and LOL together, but... like I said, just the minority.

^note From what I see, well Demacia really hasn't been shown to be being a 'Lawful Dick'. Is there an event, aside of Lux's Judgment, that shows that Demacia really is doing more about law ththan good? The law so far is written to adhere the more common 'goodness', so if they uphold it... why not? I know there have been informations like "Demacia treats all crimes equally" which led to "If you ever as much litter, you are going to be SO executed.". But my question is... has there been any event that shows someone from Demacia executing litterer?

And what if they really are genuine about those laws about protecting its citizens? If you look at the quotes of the Demacian champions, they seem reassuring for those they consider allies. "We fight for those who cannot." - Garen. "Protect the faithful." - Jarvan IV (yes, Mister Bloodthirsty Demacian himself).

I'm just saying that, if they want to portray both sides as gray, don't just only highlight the bad deeds of the 'good side', it is getting like bashing the 'good side' to be liars. The good deeds must also be addressed. Same goes with the bad side. This is also why I see the whole debate on Solari-Lunari is kind of flawed, they just take that one bad thing about Solari and then paint it like it's the whole picture of Solari and any good deeds they ever do are lies. Sounds like a shaming propaganda just to make Lunari look good, to me.

TL;DR: I don't say that Demacia is good, but if one want to portray a side as gray, then I don't think "Saying that their good proclamations are lies with their dark side" or "Saying that they are Evil" are good ways to make that point. Also, "Not saying they are evil" isn't always equal to "Saying they are good"

Hmmm.... new cycle? What do you mean, new group to play LOL with?

edited 21st Oct '14 8:28:45 AM by ChrisX

Wouldn't Garen alone counter Rammus...? I do not know if Rammus' taunt interrupts Garen's whirlwind, but the regeneration is a thing and Garen's ultimate trumps Rammus'

I can confirm as a Garen player that once he spins, he doesn't stop and keeps damaging you if you get caught with it. You stun him, you just stop his movement, the spin continues and will damage you if you stay close.

The only time he'll stop is if you reactivate it or the time runs out.

I haven't faced Garen in ages. I moved far up enough in the ranks (informal ranks, not actual ranked BS) that I pretty much never see Garen anymore.

I don't even remember why I considered him so awful and evil and OP it's been so long.

Garen is effective in his simplicity.

I'm pretty sure the tank who stacks armor and passively punishes anyone who AA's him beats the guy who deals pretty much exclusively physical damage if for some reason they stood next to each other and duked it out to the death instead of disengaging whenever one of them got low. I'll say that Garen can probably beat Rammus when they both have no items, but not after the early game.

Thing is, Garen clears waves faster. So he can clear the waves with his whirlwind, deal damage to Rammus, and then just walk away to let his passive regenerate, while rammus is left with no minions of his own, taking damage from minions, and having dealt only enough damage to Garen to let him regenerate it with impunity.

Garen does not need to AA Rammus to deal damage to him and whittle him down. And if the Garen chooses a direct confrontation then yeah, he is prolly gunna get his ass kicked. Which is why i prefer Rammus as a jungler. he is better appearing surprisingly and doing his thing than slowly whittling down someone in lane confrontation, where minions are a thing that must be taken into consideration.

I guess that makes sense and I've always had difficulty in top lane as Rammus with frequent death and I tend to have t pick up an ancient coin(into nomad's medallion) first thing.

But jungle is just so awful though... And limiting...

Also, that whole "items and Masteries that benefit you but only against minions and monsters" thing really puts me off. I get it, it's for jungling but eventually you're going to have to get out of the jungle and actually help your allies and you're gonna realize "Crap, I wasted a mastery/item slot I could have used on something more effective for my teamamtes!"

Yes I guess it helps you jungle faster and survive it longer, but at what cost?

Proper runes help a lot in the jungle.

Also those items become pretty great things against enemies. Rammus turns his thing into Spirit of the Golem, which is a defensive item that allows warding, and enough defense.

edited 21st Oct '14 10:02:58 AM by Aszur

Okay, let's assume I want to use Rammus in jungle more often but I am so used to having him as a top that my build doesn't include these jungle-preferred items. Among the Ninja Tabi, Sunfire Cape, Frozen Heart, Thornmail, Randuin's Omen, and Warmog's Armor, what would you recommend I replace?

And Runes are no problem, I have like 7 or 9-ish pages (Been away from the game for a week and I'm already forgetting. I'd show you my lolking but this is about as far as I can get and I can't even see the content on it), they are highly specialized. Sort of. The one for Rammus is called "Mage tank", it's also supposed to work for Braum, Amumu and, theoretically, Mordekaiser, Blitzcrank, and others of their ilk.

edited 21st Oct '14 10:24:19 AM by MousaThe14

There is no "Standard" build for anyone, it all depends on what you are facing, how you are faring, your teamcomp, and what is needed.

But generally the start is with Hunter's machete, turned Quill coat, and then rush the Boots of Mobility + Homeguard enchant. From there on it depends on what is fed and what is not fed and such, but assuming you are doing great from there it is either Sunfire Cape, Thornmail, Locket of the Iron Solari, or maybe even Warmog's. If you are fed, or against an all AD team though, there is no doubt to just rushing Thornmail then. And at mid/late game when it is all about teamfights, just sell the boots of mobility and replace them with either mercury's or Tabi, depending on enemy team comp.

Okay so basically in a Rammus Jungle situation, until late game it would be best for me to ignore Randiun's Omen and The Frozen Heart or at least keep off of those until I am absolutely sure of what I'm facing throughout the game? I mean, I figured I would need the heart for Mana so I can continue to abuse my abilities as well as the armor boost, unless the Spirit Golem makes up for that?

Why buy healing potions? It gives you no stats? It's to give you sustain.

Jungle items do more damage to creeps, so you can kill them faster, which means they hit you less, so you can get out of the jungle with more health. Which means that you can gank top lane 20 seconds earlier with 200 more hp than if you went dorans or a chain vest or whatever.

Thing about that build and mana is that you do not necesarily have to build mana. The reason why is your Q and the Boots of mobility. With the boots of mobility and homeguard, you just B, and when you have all your health and mana, you Q, and make your way to whatever lane needs a gank, or go back to your jungle and farm.

I do not intend to say Randuin's or Frozen Heart are useless, just that Thornmail is more inherently offensive in an advantageous situation.. If their ADC is fed, you might want to rush FH instead of Thornmail, and that is perfectly fine. But no. Mana should not be an issue. And Randuin's is very useful if they are escaping a lot, and you can get to the midst of them easy.

edited 21st Oct '14 11:00:30 AM by Aszur

Really, top lane Rammus sounds miserable and jungling him sounds a lot more fun.

Yeah, shame jungling is already miserable and that sort of cancels that out overall. Thanks for the info, aszur.

RE: Demacia vs. Noxus: I kind of enjoy the idea of both being shades of gray. Noxus is a pack of imperialist, jingoistic dicks, but they're a meritocracy and generally forward-thinking if you can get past the whole 'world conqueror' thing.

On the flip side, Demacia is nice and pure and protects people... and in order to do so appears to be a military dictatorship. Granted I don't know all the lore, but it looks like their good intentions are backed up with pretty strict laws.

I feel similarly about the Kayle/Morgana conflict - I can understand finding 'absolute righteousness' oppressive, so despite her looks I can't really think of Morgana as 'evil'.

I understand that clearly and that is what I wanted to believe, both sides are gray. But if you look at how a lot of people reacts, you wouldn't know why and thought it's a Black-and-Gray Morality while taking the stereotypical black to be the 'Gray' and the stereotypical white to be 'Black'. It just sounds like a propaganda to make the stereotypical black look good and the stereotypical white look completely bad without any good signs at all. This is pretty prevalent in various conflict, it's like slapping them with Ron the Death Eater trope:

• In the whole Demacian vs Noxus, like I've stated, they take one thing from Lux's Judgment and ran with it, making it like that's all Demacia ever amounts of and everything about 'good intentions' to be complete lies. What if they are also genuine in their good intentions?
• Solari vs Lunari is a popular subject for this. Solari wiping out the Lunari to the point of genocide. And from that point on, any notions of goodness Solari may have will always be ignored, and they're the symbols of 'The Sun is evil' and the Lunari is such a Woobie Race that can do no wrong.
• As stated above, Kayle vs Morgana. A lot just took in Morgana's side and view the Kayle side to be oppressive. But what if Kayle's side also has a point and still genuine in the more positive side of righteousness, AKA, protecting humanity? Does that ever fly to their heads? No, for them, because they are too bound to law, they are EEEEEEVVVVIIILLL.
• This is stretching out, but I think there are elements in this in the whole Jayce vs Viktor conflict. Everyone believed that Viktor is pretty justified in what he did, having Woobie credentials and Jayce is self-centered. But... does it ever fly to their head that not everyone thinks like Viktor and value their humanity? Viktor is trying to force his own ideals to others, Jayce sees that as a threat on the whole humanity and wants to protect them, but everyone's like "Jooooiiiin the glorious evolution" or "Jayce is a dick". Okay I'll admit that Jayce can come off smug, but why does no one bat an eye on his dedication to protect humanity and the future?

This is why I think I'm kind of an oddball. I always have completely differing opinion than the mass. When they happily slap in Ron the Death Eater, I don't. They only see from the 'Dark Is Not Evil - Light Is Not Good' side, but I try to also see from the typical Dark Is Evil and Light Is Good IN ADDITION OF those two.

edited 21st Oct '14 4:42:09 PM by ChrisX

^Part of that stems from the original Jayce lore, which painted Viktor as a straightforward villain and Jayce as a comic book hero. They changed it, but it set a lot of fans against Jayce and his smug, smug face.

I'm fairly sure Viktor only augments people who come to him willingly for it.

Personality can count for a lot. Some people just aren't a fan of militant zealots, zealots in general, or really really smug self-centered people.

Though I admit it's getting a kit irritating seeing you whine all the time about people we are not experiencing here. Yes yes, we get it, you wish more people saw the "good guys" as good and the " bad guys" as bad and whatnot. Nothing we can do about people's perceptions and leanings unless you want to convince riot to change the lore to be less ambiguous or something. Why is it such a big deal to you that people's interpretations are not exactly to your liking just because it's the more popular interpretation?

Live and let lore

edited 21st Oct '14 6:48:31 PM by MousaThe14

I think that's stretching it too far, but I'm not demanding change, sorry if it sounds like that. Maybe a gesture of "Yeah, You Are Not Alone, I have a similar mindset with you." will do. Nothing changes, and I get calmer.

Really, it's like I have an utter grudge against the 'common fandom' whose opinions are so loud and overrode mine like it's an insignificant, hipster oddball.

But you're right, I should just shut up about it and just take pride of being the 'Oddball Gamer'. Because if this continues, then LOL is going to end up like the other topic I avoid now, and I'm not pleased with it.

edited 21st Oct '14 7:14:53 PM by ChrisX

Given the face of the League community being what it is, I'm not entirely sure why you expect nuance?

If I haven't made it clear, I largely agree with you. I accept that the lines are generally in the same place as they're drawn by Rito, but at the same time I also recognize that the good guys aren't all good, and the bad guys aren't all bad.

People however, as they are wont to do, will form opinions on these things. To some people using child soldiers is worse that imperialism(As so many players are Chinese or American, not surprising hue hue hue), some people who consider oppressive order worse than... whatever it is Morgana did, her lore page isn't hugely clear. Point is, at the end of Demacia is probably better people, but that their flaw is so singular means some people are going to take special onus with it.