How to Train Your Dragon

Now that I think about it, Astrid did serve a very plot-relevant role; she was The Rival to Hiccup in dragon training and took it on herself to figure out his secret. When she did eventually discover it, she was nonthreatening enough to him that he took it on to persuade her that he was right, and succeeded. If Hiccup hadn't done this, he might not have been able to rally the teenagers to his cause later.

So, in a sense, Astrid's attitude towards Hiccup serves as a gauge of his rise in the plot. She's contemptuous of him at first, then curious, then jealous, then understanding, and at the end, heroic.

You could have replaced her with a boy, but then you'd lose a good part of the dynamic, which is partly Hiccup's competition to fit in, but also his reaction to girls. The latter is a common element of the Coming of Age Story, and quite properly so.

Edit 2: I will admit, however, that the very instant I saw Astrid in the film, I had her picked as the Love Interest. It's so blatant as to be cliché.

Edit: I have not read the books, so I'm eminently unqualified to do a firsthand comparison. I can only relate what others have said.

edited 12th Apr '10 2:07:23 PM by Fighteer

Fighteer: That was deliberate blatantness, as Hiccup's supposed to be a bit awkward around her.

@Fighteer: True, she did serve as the rival, but any of them could of been a rival, since they were all much better than Hiccup at first. Plus, in the end, she does nothing, even compared to the rest of the supporting cast.

Well, even when you consider the Law of Conservation of Detail, Astrid is one of only two girls Hiccup's age (or size) we even see in the film (Ruffnut being the other). It's not hard to pick out the Love Interest when she's got, "Here I am, I'm the Love Interest," painted all over her. :-)

@AHR: I think the UST dynamic improved the quality of their on-screen interaction, at least. Plot-wise Astrid could just as easily have been a boy, but for characterization purposes it's more satisfying to see The Hero conquer The Rival and turn her into the Love Interest.

edited 12th Apr '10 2:25:26 PM by Fighteer

Yeah, I think that the bias I sometimes see against the love interest characters is often undeserved. Astrid was important to the story. Yeah, you could've replaced her with another character, but not without changing Hiccup's portrayal and removing part of his character arc . A plot where the hero only has one goal to overcome really reduces the....I don't want to say "depth" of the story, but the....intertwineiness? You go from having an "A" arc and a "B" arc for the character's development, you reduce the number of complications in the plot, etc. There's a reason the romance arc is practically ubiquitous in narrative: it's on almost everyone's mind, and creates instant sympathy with the character who is yearning.

But in this case, rather than being tacked on, it was directly tied into everything else. None of the characters in this film exist as one-dimensional elements. All of them respond as human beings would — well, if they're human. The dragons act more like cats, honestly :p

I liked the complexity of the story a lot. On the one hand, you could watch it as a kid and see just a smooth adventure plot. On the other, you could look at all the little details and see the complex relationships between all of the characters, and how they evolve over time... or even take Howard Taylor's position, carrying a checklist in on your second showing to tick down all of the instances of elements of the Modern Monomyth. The film is practically a poster child for that structure.

Just saw it for the first time today. The theater is down the block from work, and at 5:20 on a Tuesday evening I was the only one watching it. I have to say I can't remember the last time I was that wowed by a movie, or the last time I saw dragons done right.

Just as a note, the Happy Meals toys are pretty cool...

Saw it last night and really enjoyed it. I didn't mind that Astrid was a blatant love interest because it's made clear from the start that Hiccup has had a crush on her for some time. I loved the different dragon species, and while I generally prefer less cartoony depictions, I understand that some of the more threatening species, like the Nightmare and the Green Death, would have been straight-up Nightmare Fuel for the kids.

Of course it was obvious that Astrid was the Love Interest, but I'm thinking that her status as such might have been more relevant than some of you seem to feel. You see, as both a rival and a crush, Astrid was the embodiment of everything Hiccup couldn't have. Remember the beginning of the film, when he was naming the different dragon species and describing what each one's defeat was worth? He said something to the effect of, "The Deadly Nadder is enough to at least get noticed in this town. A Grunkle would stop everyone from making fun of you. See that one? That's a Zippleback. Taking out one of those would probably get you a girlfriend." Hiccup's a total underdog, and Astrid is the top of the class, the girl he can't even talk to. Their chemistry helps establish the mood of the entire film. So no, Astrid is most certainly not useless or tacked-on; she drives a surprisingly big portion of the plot. That makes her a little better then the typical useless love interest.

edited 29th Apr '10 8:43:25 AM by Takwin

I would be more satisfied with that reasoning, if she didn't do anything at the climax of the plot, while all the other students did do something. All she did was say 'Go!'

Saw it today. Wonderful stuff. Funny, touching, and as befits anything with Vikings in it that takes itself half-serious, TOTALLY METAL. Seriously, normally I don't like Dragon Force, but imagine just for a sec "Through The Fire and Flames" playing over the fight with the Green Death.

Speaking of which, I...Wasn't expecting that thing. "Oh hay, this is what the dragon's lair looks like, and now they're stowing away all the food they gath—WHAT THE SHIT."

I just saw this last night, and I have to say "wow." Best animated film by Dreamworks Animation yet (not that there was much competition for that title, The Road To El Dorado and Monsters Vs Aliens are the only other two I thought were any good).

Also the best use of 3D in a 3D movie I've seen yet, by far. Rather than feeling tacked on just because it was there and the new big thing, the 3D felt seamless within the movie and greatly enhanced the experience. If you're holding out for the DVD (or torrent, I suppose), give some serious thought to seeing this one in 3D. It makes me wish that 3D home televisions were widely available and affordable.

The pacing was good, the characterization was decent, and even if it was extremely predictable it was a fun ride and didn't feel too derivative. There were some sequences that literally blew me away. I remember seeing a commentary for Robots that said the ball-subway-system-thing sequence was "the greatest moment in CG animation yet." Well, the dragon-through-pointy-rocks-and-sea moment in this movie outdid it. It's thrilling, beautiful, and very well animated.

Like others said in the thread, I forgot it was a kid's movie and was holding my breath, laughing, and cheering right along with my kids through the whole thing. My five-year-old summed it up when the credits started to roll: "Awesome."

edited 3rd May '10 8:32:17 AM by ccoa

Saw it twice now (once with sister, then with my parents) and... I love it. Favorite movie, easily. Brilliant done, it was fun all the way through.

I loved how Toothless didn't act like a human - he acted like a spoiled, bratty animal. =V

Listening to the credits song on my Media Player's "Spam" setting has also made me realize that I find Icelandic accents totally charming.

I am going to echo Charlatan in that the Green Death was just... urgh. And oddly reminescent of the dragons I designed for my Na No Wri Mo novel last year, which was interesting in that as much as it creeped me out, I couldn't help but like it in a narcissistic fashion.

Necroing this thread to say that I got the Blu-Ray this past weekend and watched it at home with my son. The resolution is just spectacular; I can only wish I had the tech to watch it in 3D at home.

It also gave me a bit of Fridge Brilliance - I realized how it was possible for Toothless to effectively cook the Green Red Death with his comparatively puny fire. He waited until the Red Death was preparing its own fire attack — the green gas that is emitted just before ignition is clearly visible at Blu-Ray resolutions — and ignited it himself with his own blast. The blowback is what took it out. Nice work, Dreamworks.

^ What kind of extra features are offered on the main disk?

It has a short, "The Legend of The Boneknapper Dragon", some Internet extras, and a few featurettes like cast and effects.

Blu Ray wasn't necessary for that. I caught it when I watched it earlier.

But a second viewing, no matter what kind, is still likely to make you notice things you didn't before.

Fantastic music. I recommend everyone download buy it.

"Sticks and Stones" went from being "Kinda cool song in the end credits" to "pretty awesome little song" to "One of my favorite songs of all time" relatively quickly after I first heard it. Still love it!

So I heard that CN "owns the rights" to this franchise or whatever. Does this mean that they will make the TV show or will they just distribute it? Does the agreement just given the permission to air it on their network?

I don't know how good it will turn out if CN is the one making it. What do YOU think?

Late to the discussion, missed the film at the cinema and only just caught it on Sky in the UK.

Astrid may not do much in the final battle other than telling the twins to "Get Snotlout out of there", but without her they wouldn't have been there at all and the adults would've been wiped out. Hiccup stands at the top of the village ramps for HOURS and watches the ships load and set off, then continues to stand there feeling sorry for himself. It's ASTRID that snaps him out of it. Think about these points:

1) Only other human to have seen what the adults are about to go up against. She also knows that they're going to need Hiccup's new rapport with dragons to mount any kind of rescue.

2) She's realised there's more to Hiccup than meets the eye, but like most girls she wants to get inside his head. Is he brave when it counts or only when noone's watching? Will he let his best friend, father and the entire Viking expedition die while he feels sorry for himself? She's gone from utter contempt for Hiccup to at least affection, now she's making sure he's who she thinks he might be before she really lets herself fall. At the end of the scene her "Now that's more like it" is delivered with a breathy tenderness, rather than the aggression and bravado the Astrid at the start of the film would've used. Credit America Ferrara for showing that this is the real moment Astrid falls properly for Hiccup.

3) She's finally seeing things a different way and a different future for the Vikings of Berk. But it needs a push, and she needs Hiccup and Toothless to do it. She rounds up the other teenagers and brings them to the training ring, which is where she figures Hiccup will have gone. I don't think the film would really hang together without her, the ending seems to depend on her as it's written. Yes there are other ways you could've got the teens on dragons and out to Dragon Island, but Hiccup's self-pity was believable, Toothless is his best friend who's just saved his life. Getting A Strid to snap him out of it just works better than other readily conceived options.

Holy shit this film. It was adorable.

Believe it or not, this was one of the things that revitalized my interest in Scandinavian culture, despite the obvious inaccuracies.