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The Military Thread:

 31301 Tuefel Hunden IV, Wed, 19th Mar '14 2:52:07 AM from Wandering. Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Watchmen of the Apocalypse
Except it isn't pure logistics. Again my point stands quite well. You need the fighting arm and the fighting arm needs the supplies. You need both. There is no way around it.

You can have a big warehouse full of ammo but does jack shit if someone isn't there to shoot it. Unless you like staring at crates of unopened ammo all day.
"Who watches the watchmen?"
 31302 entropy 13, Wed, 19th Mar '14 3:10:53 AM from Somewhere only we know. Relationship Status: Drift compatible
わからない
If we're really going to be pedantic, a catapult is the logistics of boulder delivery. Artillery is the delivery of highly explosive packages...
I'm reading this because it's interesting. I think.
Whiskey, Tango, Foxtrot, over.
 31303 The Handle, Wed, 19th Mar '14 3:45:16 AM from Location, Location, Loca
Again, isn't the standard expression for bombing and such called "delivery system"? Or is that just for nukies?

edited 19th Mar '14 3:45:49 AM by TheHandle

I stayed up all night, 'cause I wanted to see where the sun went—and then it dawned on me.
 31304 Geek Code Red, Wed, 19th Mar '14 3:48:49 AM from City of the Damned Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
What's the trope for skin contact magic?
So, question: How many nukes exist that aren't on official record, or have been lost? I know the second one is a scarily common occurence.
"Punch divorces are the best divorces." edvedd
 31305 Greenmantle, Wed, 19th Mar '14 4:08:49 AM from Britannia Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
[up] Nobody knows publicly. That is deeply Classified Information.
 31306 The Handle, Wed, 19th Mar '14 4:15:25 AM from Location, Location, Loca
I betcha nobody knows period.
I stayed up all night, 'cause I wanted to see where the sun went—and then it dawned on me.
 31307 kurushio, Wed, 19th Mar '14 4:30:05 AM from Berlin, Germany Relationship Status: I've got a total eclipse of the heart
Happy Human
About the logistics thing: I think I'm with Teuf here. That whole "experts study logistics" thing is true, sure; but it's very, very trite. Because logistics is, in one way, very easy: Manpower.

Take my time as a conscript: I spent two and a half months in basic (and watch & security) training. That made me barely able to fight as an infantryman in a squad sized formation. Very barely.

On the other hand, it took not even a month to get my MOS as a logistics guy for headquarters & service companies, the same MOS the lower-ranked NCOs in the materiel squad had. Other guys in the first company? Truck drivers, fuel, ammo, repair? All one month, maximum two. At the lower ranks, logistics are easy to do, and manpower needs are easy to fill.

Switching over to the guys from basic who went to the fighting companies: Tank driver, two months. Gunner? Not withing additional voluntary service time. Gepard gunner? Four months. And that is the minimal training time; no field exercises, nothing advanced. Others around here will known how long it takes to train a really competent infantryman.

Looking at that lower end of the food chain, re-growing the tail is easy. Re-growing the teeth is not. You can teach someone to put a bomb on a plane in a few hours, I guess, but you can't train him to fly it (more than once).

That is where the real division between logistics and fighting troops lies, methinks, and why it is important.

 31308 3of 4, Wed, 19th Mar '14 4:40:18 AM from Five Seconds in the Future. Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Feeble Turtle Duck
I'd assume you can teach them to fly pretty quick...the issue is teaching them to land ;)
LMage: NO ONE ASKED FOR YOUR WITCHCRAFT THREE
 31309 The Handle, Wed, 19th Mar '14 4:40:31 AM from Location, Location, Loca
Wow, that's, like, a Master's Degree or something.

Do we have any CO's on this thread?

[up]Landing. Landing never changes.

edited 19th Mar '14 4:41:23 AM by TheHandle

I stayed up all night, 'cause I wanted to see where the sun went—and then it dawned on me.
 31310 Achaemenid, Wed, 19th Mar '14 5:07:47 AM from Amager Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
Shouting the battle-cry of Freedom!
A couple of nice - and short - documentaries I found from the old BBC Decisive Weapons series about...well, decisive weapons. Quality's patchy, but not ruinous. Narrated by Boromir:

Annoying, most of the rest aren't online. They had one about the Huey, which was excellent.

edited 19th Mar '14 5:09:33 AM by Achaemenid

O wad some Power the giftie gie us,

Tae see oursels as ithers see us!

RISE
 31311 The Handle, Wed, 19th Mar '14 5:33:03 AM from Location, Location, Loca
What kind of dramatic pause enthusiasm is his?
I stayed up all night, 'cause I wanted to see where the sun went—and then it dawned on me.
 31312 Achaemenid, Wed, 19th Mar '14 5:36:37 AM from Amager Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
Shouting the battle-cry of Freedom!
[up]

No PTSD for him! He looks and sounds like he had the time of his life.
O wad some Power the giftie gie us,

Tae see oursels as ithers see us!

RISE
 31313 The Handle, Wed, 19th Mar '14 5:39:55 AM from Location, Location, Loca
Well, PTSD is a very random, poorly-understood kinda thing. It's not even particularly linked to bloodlust. Speaking of which, is it true that only one in every fifty soldiers actually enjoys killing enemies?
I stayed up all night, 'cause I wanted to see where the sun went—and then it dawned on me.
 31314 Flanker 66, Wed, 19th Mar '14 6:41:36 AM from The Cockpit of a Celestial Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
Manei Domini
Again, isn't the standard expression for bombing and such called "delivery system"? Or is that just for nukies?

No, the delivery system is the thing that actually "delivers" the payload. An example of a delivery system would be an air to air missile. The actual task would be Quick Reaction Alert, CAP, and so on. It's just a simpler, more convenient means of referring to certain aspects.

It's not useful to conflate the actual employment of weapons with logistics, and as I mentioned before is terribly misleading. If you make the definition vague enough, you can make a word mean anything to the point of uselessness.

@Emphasis on logistics:

Remembering to keep up with logistics is of course a fine bit of advice, though I'd contend that a force with a long tail and relatively short teeth (i.e. an army that's well supplied and (hopefully) of high quality, but has little operational depth) is not so much an army - never mind an effective one - as a token force guarding said supplies.

A balance must be struck. Focusing on manpower might lead to a chronically ill-supplied army that has low morale. Focusing on logistics can leave you with a hollow force that will crumple inward with the first blow. Neither is ideal.
Locking you up on radar since '09

Sing to the ocean in the afternoon haze,

Up the iron pillars, rise in the waves
 31315 Geek Code Red, Wed, 19th Mar '14 6:45:36 AM from City of the Damned Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
What's the trope for skin contact magic?
Star Trek Replicators and Transporters would render logistics moot, however. tongue
"Punch divorces are the best divorces." edvedd
 31316 Deadbeatloser 22, Wed, 19th Mar '14 6:46:48 AM from A cat basket over there. Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
This is all Decade's fault.
Well, no, because Replicators need base matter to work from.
"Momo-Ura-Kin-Ryuu! Climax Form!"
 31317 Geek Code Red, Wed, 19th Mar '14 6:48:18 AM from City of the Damned Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
What's the trope for skin contact magic?
They do? I just thought they created matter from energy.
"Punch divorces are the best divorces." edvedd
 31318 Deadbeatloser 22, Wed, 19th Mar '14 6:49:22 AM from A cat basket over there. Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
This is all Decade's fault.
No, because then you've violated the first law of thermodynamics.
"Momo-Ura-Kin-Ryuu! Climax Form!"
 31319 The Handle, Wed, 19th Mar '14 6:53:52 AM from Location, Location, Loca
Focusing on manpower might lead to a chronically ill-supplied army that has low morale.

Is this why the USMC are famously cynical and grumpy?

a force with a long tail and relatively short teeth (i.e. an army that's well supplied and (hopefully) of high quality, but has little operational depth) is not so much an army - never mind an effective one - as a token force guarding said supplies.

And that would be the Air Force, at least when it comes to the ground troops, am I right?

edited 19th Mar '14 6:55:06 AM by TheHandle

I stayed up all night, 'cause I wanted to see where the sun went—and then it dawned on me.
 31320 Nohbody, Wed, 19th Mar '14 6:58:04 AM from Somewhere in Dixie Relationship Status: Mu
Just zis guy
^^ Not that ST was shy about violating the laws of physics to hell and back when it suited the plot... tongue

But yeah, there are actual limits on replicators, even if not seen in the shows/movies.

edited 19th Mar '14 6:58:24 AM by Nohbody

 31321 d Roy, Wed, 19th Mar '14 11:29:43 AM Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
Just another battle in the Pacific theatre.

(Obviously Japanese soldiers were deadlier than this, but hey.
"Allah may guide their bullets, but Jesus helps those who aim down the sights."
 31322 Tuefel Hunden IV, Wed, 19th Mar '14 12:25:48 PM from Wandering. Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Watchmen of the Apocalypse
Entropy: Um no. It is not a piece of logistics equipment even pedantically. It is a siege engine. Artillery is not a logistics item it is a weapon. A rifle and bayonet are not logistics items they are weapons. An infantry rifleman is not delivering ammunition they are firing it as they attack or defend.

A cargo truck is a logistics item. A pallet of supplies is a logistics item. MRE's are frighteningly enough logistics items.

A bomber may deliver bombs to the target but there is vast ocean of difference in delivering a bomb on pallet to a depot for storage and dropping it on someones head.

Handle: The Marines aren't famed for guarding supply depots. Marines see plenty of action and are small compared to the other branches. Were grumpy for a variety of other reasons.
"Who watches the watchmen?"
 31323 The Handle, Wed, 19th Mar '14 12:33:20 PM from Location, Location, Loca
That's what I meant, Marines are highly offensive shock troops, have more emphasis on tooth than tail, strike deep into enemy territory, etc. and thus are always short on stuff. Air Force troops are well-supplied because their main role is guarding planes and supplies: lots of tail, not as much tooth. Am I getting this right?
I stayed up all night, 'cause I wanted to see where the sun went—and then it dawned on me.
 31324 Flanker 66, Wed, 19th Mar '14 12:38:00 PM from The Cockpit of a Celestial Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
Manei Domini
I'd point out that the real teeth of air forces aren't their ground components or (depending on the organisation) their air defence batteries, but the aircraft, aircrew and the ordinance they deploy. After all, it'd be absurd to claim that the RAF Regiment is intended to be the predominant component of the RAF and thus the RAF is dangerously undermanned because there's less people in the RAF Regiment than aircrew and technical staffnote .
Locking you up on radar since '09

Sing to the ocean in the afternoon haze,

Up the iron pillars, rise in the waves
 31325 Tuefel Hunden IV, Wed, 19th Mar '14 2:18:42 PM from Wandering. Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Watchmen of the Apocalypse
The Marines have a pretty hefty tail end trust me. Even in field exercises the FOB areas have largely support personnel especially supply and maintenance.
"Who watches the watchmen?"
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