Bleach

Kind of makes the Espada and Aizen feel like canon fodder...

Aizen shouldn't stop using an advantage because the Hogyoku's giving him power anyway. It would've saved his ass against Urahara, actually. I know I've said this before.

Not really. It's just Sorting Algorithm of Evil, plus the Gotei 13 were completely unprepared for the Vandenreich and the Bankai stealing. It makes sense to me.

Though I do wish the Espada/Aizen had scored some casualties, but I don't know many characters that they could have killed off.

But he didn't. He still used it against Toshiro and co. But only when he actually needed it. He can't test his Hogyoku powers well if he relies on KS all the time.

edited 6th Oct '12 8:26:11 PM by Saiga

Aizen never cared about killing Shinigami (he could've killed Shinji, Sui-Feng, Hitsuguya and Shunsui if he wanted to), while that seems to be the main goal of most members of the Vandenreich.

The 13 were also unprepared for KS and hybrids...

Aizen would've won if he just used KS against the Deicides.

He even directly states he won't kill them when he cuts them down. He only wanted to kill Yamamoto.

I think I would have had Starrk kill Love, maybe have Iba die to Ayon, maybe have Kenpachi die to Yammy and Unohana fight, uhh... can't really kill off more captains or it'd leave too many gaps in the Gotei 13.

But he did win, against everyone not named Ichigo. And Ichigo touched the blade of KS before Aizen realized he had surpassed him.

edited 6th Oct '12 8:41:09 PM by Saiga

Have been able to cause this damage to SS not because the Vandenreich are stronger than Aizen and the Espada- they aren't, from what we've seen, but because of superior planning and information.

So it's really Aizen's failing.

It's hard to say who's stronger. Royd is probably stronger than any of the Espada, though.

I'm using Nodt as my basis, here. He was probably weaker than Byakuya, but he won because he was ready for everything that was thrown at him, while Byakuya wasn't ready for any of it.

And Juha- I admit I don't have a solid basis for this, but I've been thinking of him as weaker than Aizen.

edited 6th Oct '12 8:48:40 PM by Gilphon

We don't have any basis for Byakuya being stronger. He could cut Nodt because Nodt released their Blut Vene too earlier, and that's about the only strength comparison we have.

I'd say you don't have any basis for that belief.

edited 6th Oct '12 9:00:39 PM by Saiga

Right, Aizen also didn't share any intel with his Espada. Even though he should know what the Shikai of all of the captains is, at least.

They never asked. Silly Espadas.

It's pretty obvious that he didn't know, Wander. He wasn't certain if Ryujin Jakka would exceed his abilities or not.

Do you really think it wouldn't be suspicious if he started asking all the Captains what the extent of their abilities were?

edited 6th Oct '12 9:15:52 PM by Saiga

It's part of the requirement for being a captain that your ability be known, so...

He was just able to give a half truth. He also didn't tell them the more obvious ones with the characters who just can't wait to show off, like Soi Fon, Komamura, etc.

Bleach on toonami. Heh, halibel got wet :3

and without his shikai aizen would be screwed in almost every situation. Vandenriech are crazy prepared. They could kill espadas like flies.

There are a few things wrong with that:

1) That's never been stated

2) Aizen isn't the one who evaluates and appoints the new Captains

3) Several Captains got that position before Aizen

So, I'll ask again: Why exactly would Aizen know all their powers?

wish you'd told me before the episode was near ending...

Considering he'd already had access to the Central 46 and large stores of information, and it's pretty wise to know as much as you can about your opponent, and he could always hide and watch them fight, or impersonate one, and so on.

Considering the over 100 years he was scheming, and the fact that he was established to be the likeable guy who would even show his own powers, and they had no reason to expect his betraying them, I don't see how he could not know about their powers. Yes, even Shinji's. And then, the ones that he likely knew about, why would he not tell his Espada? Unless, again, he's not really big on absolute victory.

edited 6th Oct '12 9:35:00 PM by wanderlustwarrior

couldnt aizen just use his shikai to find out about thier powers? Doesnt seem to farfetched that hed hypnotize them and ask.

That aizens a clever bitch.

Who says they keep records of that sort of thing that anyone could access? Remember that their were records there he didn't have authorization to see.

And even if he did hypnotize them there's no guarantee they'd tell him, whoever they think he is. We don't know of any battles prior to that point where he could have seen them use Shikai.

Finally, he probably does not even give a shit what most of the Captain's powers are.

Right, because Aizen has to worry about authorization.

He doesn't even need hypnosis. Considering his fake persona, most of the captains would've just told him.

And for Aizen to not give a shit about the strongest people still in SS, considering his ambition and preparedness, it'd have to be so mind-numbingly inconsistently stupid I'd have to wonder if he had a firmer grip on the idiot ball than Shinji. I find it hard to believe he'd be that strategically blind.

edited 6th Oct '12 9:41:51 PM by wanderlustwarrior

Yes, he does. As the series shows.

How do you know this? I don't see why they'd tell him just because he's nice.

You're forgetting that they are complete fodder compared to him. If the chick with a instant death move isn't a threat to him, why would he even care about the other abilities?

He just went ahead and got through Central 46's security. I'm inclined to believe the only thing he couldn't easily access is the Superjail or stuff in the Nobles' houses or whatever.

If I were Aizen, I'd seek to exploit a certain amount of preparedness. If I were Soul Society, I'd set up some sort of military disclosure to prevent shit like Aizen from happening. We know they do stuff like that, as they monitor certain high level kido (though apparently not enough to know why it was cast...), and they have the Maggot's Nest. Of course, the full nature of KS would turn that against them.

Gap in power or no, I'd rather know what I'm up against. Considering what he's planning, it isn't ignorance, it'd be stupidity.

edited 6th Oct '12 10:03:01 PM by wanderlustwarrior

He couldn't get any information on the Ouken, remember. Establishing that there is such a thing as information he didn't have access to.

But again: Instant death is useless against him. It's be stupid for him to try and take measure to prevent himself from what can't possibly hurt him. Would you go around asking making preparations to fight the lieutenants and seated officers? Aizen must be an idiot for not finding out what Zennosuke's power was before he fought him.

Actually, he did make preparations for seated officers... recruit Gin and Tosen and the other 3 gatekeepers. Anyone who has any promise, get them under your control if at all possible.

I'm saying he should at least have bothered to figure out what could be thrown against him, and it's more reasonable to assume he did than not to.

edited 6th Oct '12 10:14:10 PM by wanderlustwarrior

That's not preparing to fight them or studying their abilities.