Follow TV Tropes

Following

Harry Potter And The Methods Of Rationality

Go To

randomfan Since: Oct, 2010
#1876: Aug 30th 2011 at 12:03:09 AM

I only got two of the references, one to the chaos gods, and one to Beetlejuice

There was a time in my life I had dignity, a time before the giant monster corgi.
DocumentN Since: Jan, 2001
#1877: Aug 30th 2011 at 12:27:57 AM

Tzintchi.

edited 30th Aug '11 12:28:08 AM by DocumentN

NowhereMan Since: Sep, 2009
#1878: Aug 30th 2011 at 8:28:49 AM

Still waiting to see anyone come up with the complete list of references in Ch. 74.
Let's see now...

Anything I got wrong/Missed entirely?

edited 30th Aug '11 8:50:51 AM by NowhereMan

FurikoMaru Reverse the Curse from The Arrogant Wasteland Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: He makes me feel like I have a heart
Reverse the Curse
#1879: Aug 30th 2011 at 8:33:51 AM

Elmekia. Again, not sure if it's a Slayers exclusive; it's got that indeterminate sound where it could be Sounds Cool In English or Sounds Cool In Japanese.

edited 30th Aug '11 8:34:54 AM by FurikoMaru

A True Lady's Quest - A Jojo is You!
NowhereMan Since: Sep, 2009
#1880: Aug 30th 2011 at 8:40:45 AM

Is the word Elmekia in there somewhere? I can't find it.

EliezerYudkowsky Since: Aug, 2010
#1881: Aug 30th 2011 at 10:20:46 AM

Yes! Dragonlance! Thank you! I was starting to wonder if nobody else spent their childhood with the Portal opening chant going through their heads.

Just finish decrypting the Chaos gods and you'll be almost done. There's one more reference in Ch. 74, but it might be a while before anyone gets that one.

Edit: Oops, yet another thing wasn't on that list there, but I've seen others get it.

edited 30th Aug '11 2:39:04 PM by EliezerYudkowsky

NowhereMan Since: Sep, 2009
#1882: Aug 30th 2011 at 12:41:21 PM

Ah I see now. Those are their Dark Tongue names. Or at least I think it is; hard to verify for any except Slaaneth.

If there's one more reference in there it's probably the "Rope that's hung a man, sword that's slain a woman" bit, but I have no idea what that could be, and can't figure out how to figure it out.

Desertopa Not Actually Indie Since: Jan, 2001
Not Actually Indie
#1883: Aug 30th 2011 at 4:43:01 PM

I rather liked harry's conversation with professor quirrel. Now we know there's a ritual to summon a dementor and that it uses a sword that killed a woman and a rope that hanged a man. We also learned that harry's patronus charm was once known but long forgotten.

We don't know that. It's a possibility, but there's no reason there can't be multiple spells with similar purposes, and a spell that dismisses a dementor that has been summoned and bound may be quite different from one that destroys dementors in general, as well as being able to carry out other patronus functions like sending messages. Absent narrative considerations, I would bet against their being the same spell, and in fact would be a bit surprised if the spell really does summon a dementor. Yes, we know that dementors are some kind of manifestation of death, but nearly all wizards do not, and if the ritual to summon and bind Death summoned a dementor, then every dark wizard who ever performed it ought to know, and quite likely a lot who didn't based on word of mouth. In Mo R canon, the wizarding community seems really big on guarding knowledge, even driving it to extinction in many cases, but given the common association of dark wizards not being able to cast patronuses, revealing the secret seems like it would be advantageous to them, because as Harry points out it would stop other people from being able to use ordinary patronuses as well.

On a related note, we already know that there's an archway in the Department of Mysteries which in canon is strongly implied to lead directly to the world of the dead or afterlife, and in Mo R canon is at least believed to be such. So it seems that death can have more than one sort of magical manifestation.

...eventually, we will reach a maximum entropy state where nobody has their own socks or underwear, or knows who to ask to get them back.
RLabs from cat planet! Since: Feb, 2010
#1884: Aug 31st 2011 at 7:46:21 PM

New chapter's up.

That was a pretty good ending.

edited 31st Aug '11 7:46:39 PM by RLabs

threetoast Since: Aug, 2011
#1885: Aug 31st 2011 at 8:06:00 PM

"Yes, we know that dementors are some kind of manifestation of death, but nearly all wizards do not, and if the ritual to summon and bind Death summoned a dementor, then every dark wizard who ever performed it ought to know" "given the common association of dark wizards not being able to cast patronuses"

Who would cast a spell to summon Death besides Dark wizards? They summon dementors, can't cast Patronus to defend themselves, and get Kissed. Secret's safe.

Though, as Quirrel pointed out, there's other ways of dealing with dementors, the most obvious being Apparation. So the spell probably doesn't summon/create dementors.

DocumentN Since: Jan, 2001
#1886: Aug 31st 2011 at 9:10:03 PM

Could the octagon have something to do with Discworld and eight being the number of magic?

Bluelantern2814 Mage of Life-Breath-Doom Since: Sep, 2009
Mage of Life-Breath-Doom
#1887: Aug 31st 2011 at 9:27:17 PM

"Miss Granger," she said in a soothing voice, "I think if you're really honest with yourself, you'll admit that the real reason you're angry with your dark master is that he channeled his unspeakable powers through Tracey Davis instead of you'

That harry is a slut.

"Here to welcome our new golden-eyed overlords," said Addy promptly.
Taelor Don't Forget To Smile from The Paths of Spite Since: Jul, 2009
Don't Forget To Smile
#1888: Aug 31st 2011 at 9:59:26 PM

"Oh," said the third-year girl, "I was thinking of that really romantic one where there's this very nice, sweet boy who makes a Floo call, only he mispronounces his destination and stumbles out into this room full of Dark Wizards who are performing a forbidden ritual that should've stayed forever lost to time, and they're sacrificing seven victims in order to unseal this ancient horror which is supposed to grant someone a wish if it's freed, so of course the boy's presence interrupts the ritual, and as the horror is eating all the Dark Wizards and everyone is dying the boy's last thought is that he wishes he could've had a girlfriend, and the next thing you know the boy is lying in the lap of this beautiful woman whose eyes are burning with a dreadful light, only she doesn't understand anything about being human so the boy always has to stop her eating people. This is just like that play, only you're the boy and Harry Potter is the girl!"
This seems suspiciously similar to Ow My Sanity.

The Philosopher-King Paradox
randomfan Since: Oct, 2010
#1889: Aug 31st 2011 at 10:20:27 PM

It is, Eliezer says so in the author notes.

There was a time in my life I had dignity, a time before the giant monster corgi.
EliezerYudkowsky Since: Aug, 2010
#1890: Sep 1st 2011 at 12:07:16 AM

How you people can possibly get that one but not the other two...

ashar Since: Dec, 1969
#1891: Sep 1st 2011 at 12:13:27 PM

The "ritual to summon Death itself" is from Ethshar, a spell called Seething Death.

edited 1st Sep '11 12:14:05 PM by ashar

EliezerYudkowsky Since: Aug, 2010
#1892: Sep 1st 2011 at 12:34:09 PM

(Applauds)

That leaves only one reference remaining that nobody's gotten...

edited 1st Sep '11 12:34:24 PM by EliezerYudkowsky

Desertopa Not Actually Indie Since: Jan, 2001
Not Actually Indie
#1893: Sep 1st 2011 at 3:24:21 PM

"Yes, we know that dementors are some kind of manifestation of death, but nearly all wizards do not, and if the ritual to summon and bind Death summoned a dementor, then every dark wizard who ever performed it ought to know" "given the common association of dark wizards not being able to cast patronuses"

Who would cast a spell to summon Death besides Dark wizards? They summon dementors, can't cast Patronus to defend themselves, and get Kissed. Secret's safe.

But the spell existed before the dismissal part was lost (the real barrier preventing dark wizards from finding out now being the threat of being unable to dismiss Death. Remember Quirrell's advice, "just apparate away.") It only takes one person to turn the fact that dementors represent death into common knowledge, and dark wizards are more likely than anyone to have an incentive.

The message would be particularly likely to propagate among dark wizards if it was unexpected. Remember, the wizarding world does have a concept of an anthropomorphic intelligent Death (who gave the Deathly Hallows to the Peverells.) If a dark wizard tried the ritual expecting to get Death, there's every likelihood that they'd tell their students "don't bother with the ritual, I tried it, and all that turned up was a dementor."

edited 1st Sep '11 3:24:47 PM by Desertopa

...eventually, we will reach a maximum entropy state where nobody has their own socks or underwear, or knows who to ask to get them back.
JesusSaves Since: Aug, 2011
#1894: Sep 1st 2011 at 5:25:27 PM

iHello

This sounds like a nice fic. I got a Win The Crowd at the turns-into-a-cat freakout. Usually people have an "everything I believe is false" panic like this when they stop believing in God and their worldview crumbles. Never happened to me, though, and, as a Calvinist, I have an idea as to why. I hope. But anyway, it was funny seeing someone freak out like that at the simple loss of the laws of physics, something most people don't even comprehend (mosty beause they won't try). I expect a lot from the humanism it transpires. But it's curiously dark at times, the tone confuses me a bit. I mean, the protagonist has some weird ways about being heroic... like a younger Granny Weatherwax. Is Quirell a golem, a sociopath, or just bored with life? And, if he actually is Voldie, and so much smarter, he couldn't possibly have fallen for the same ancient magic mother sacrifice ritual trap, right? So did he ash himself? Like, on purpose, because he was, like, bored with Dark Lording? Anyhoo, do you guys think I should check out those sequences? Do we have also a bibliography of Poteizer-approved books? I couldn't find that "influence" one, only a university course in the nineties with a similar name...

EDIT: Oh, I see the authos posts here. He seems friendly. You write very well, young man, keep it up. I hope Rowling publishes this as a Tie-In Novel at some point, what with the Pottermore thingie going on.

edited 1st Sep '11 5:33:23 PM by JesusSaves

An action is not virtuous merely because it is unpleasant to do.
SavageOrange tilkau from vi Since: Mar, 2011
tilkau
#1895: Sep 1st 2011 at 7:52:32 PM

he couldn't possibly have fallen for the same ancient magic mother sacrifice ritual trap, right
Remember all key characters in this have a rationality bonus. That means Lily probably devised a cleverer trap, at the very least; possibly more than one.

'Don't beg for anything, do it yourself, or else you won't get anything.'
Desertopa Not Actually Indie Since: Jan, 2001
Not Actually Indie
#1896: Sep 1st 2011 at 8:24:41 PM

Not all the major characters have rationality upgrades. Mc Gonagall is about as rational as she was in the original, for example. James and Lily might be upgraded, but if the plot doesn't require them to be I suspect they probably haven't been. I think it's more likely that whatever saved Harry was not something that Lily or James planned in advance.

edited 1st Sep '11 8:26:24 PM by Desertopa

...eventually, we will reach a maximum entropy state where nobody has their own socks or underwear, or knows who to ask to get them back.
ThirtyH Since: Jun, 2011
#1897: Sep 1st 2011 at 9:07:55 PM

Greatest chapter ever. Great fanfic, man. Love ya forever.

jaimeastorga2000 Indeed Since: May, 2011
Indeed
#1898: Sep 1st 2011 at 10:39:38 PM

Ch. 1:

Beneath the moonlight glints a tiny fragment of silver, a fraction of a line...

(black robes, falling)

...blood spills out in liters, and someone screams a word.

Ch. 74:

Even so, the most terrible ritual known to me demands only a rope which has hanged a man and a sword which has slain a woman; and that for a ritual which promised to summon Death itself - though what is truly meant by that I do not know and do not care to discover, since it was also said that the counterspell to dismiss Death had been lost.

edited 1st Sep '11 11:27:58 PM by jaimeastorga2000

Legally Free Content
EliezerYudkowsky Since: Aug, 2010
#1899: Sep 2nd 2011 at 12:17:41 AM

I'm genuinely surprised that people liked Ch. 75, but have accepted this fact and updated on it.

The part that actually got me liking the chapter again, after all that writing and rewriting, was the fact that after publication, half the reviews were like "GO QUIRRELL! HELL YEAH! TAKE THAT, DUMBLEDORE!" and half were like "My god, Quirrell awarding Hermione one hundred points is the most subtle evil I have ever witnessed." I often try to balance appearances so exactly that half the readers think they're supposed to be on one side and half the readers pick the other side - but I so rarely succeed!

edited 2nd Sep '11 12:22:15 AM by EliezerYudkowsky

Savoie Since: Mar, 2010
#1900: Sep 2nd 2011 at 1:11:23 AM

Nice callback to Quirrell's conversation with Hermoine over 'doing what's right' in chapter 70.

I should add that this implies that he's acknowledging her as having 'risen above the ordinary' - I'm sure Hermoine understands what this means.

edited 2nd Sep '11 1:12:46 AM by Savoie


Total posts: 7,408
Top