During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
King sweep time. These are all the entries on King's works YMMV pages not on the CM page.
Bag Of Bones:
- Also the people who killed (and in the case of Sara, raped) Sara and her son.
Cell:
The Dark Half:
Dolores Claiborne:
Hearts in Atlantis:
Insomnia:
edited 1st Jul '13 8:04:47 AM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
1408: 1408 is a sentient room that kills off and drives into insanity anyone who enters and stays too long, murdering them in sometimes exceptionally graphic ways. However, 1408 is an Eldritch Abomination. I can't really see the room/entity qualifying for this trope, as it's never established if it even has morality or a humanlike personality. In fact, Mr. Olin explicitly says that it's not even remotely human.
The Long Walk: The Major doesn't do enough onscreen. He appears a total of three times, the first time giving an inspirational speech to the contestants, the second time just driving by in his jeep, and the third time congratulating the winner of the long walk. He's become a dictatorial figure of the United States after Germany won the second world war (the Nazis took over Europe, not the US, btw), but all of that is Offstage Villainy, and the bad state of the country isn't purely his fault, but a result of the economic downturn after the war was lost. The only thing that might qualify him is that he organized the long walk, which is shown in graphic, gory detail.
Misery: Annie might just be too insane to qualify. If I recall, the movie version was also actually less evil than the book incarnation, where she seemed much more psychotic.
Riddick write-ups.
- Assault on Dark Athena:
- Captain Gale Revas is the commanding officer of the mercenary ship the Dark Athena. She was taken in by her current second-in-command Spinner, and joined the crew in her teens. She seduced the original captain, then had him overthrown and thrown in a cell. She refitted the ship so they would attack unsuspecting vessels and settler worlds. The planetary assaults are complete Rape, Pillage, and Burn, with unarmed civilians being indiscriminately killed and tossed in sewers, the settlements wiped out, and the survivors harvested into mindless remote-controlled cyborgs, openly called out as a Fate Worse than Death. The ship also functions as a slave vessel, with decks upon decks of prisons with people her mercenaries captured, locked up until they can sell them or convert them into cyborgs. She keeps the crew in line with threats of sending them to the Drone Mile (cyborg conversion) or trips to "the Dentist". She personally tries to murder a child twice, and doesn't show any interest in people besides using some good-looking mercenaries as her sex toys. It's said that she grew up in the slums where she had to learn to survive, but considering her later crimes it falls a bit short as a Freudian Excuse.
- Jaylor is an utterly sadistic former member of Revas's crew who simply indulged in rape and murder to the point that he freaked out all the other mercs, before he was stripped of his rank and thrown in a cell for his crimes. The moment Riddick meets him he seems friendly until he reveals that it's just a smokescreen. He blackmails Riddick into killing the mercenary who turned him in to get revenge, and to retrieve one of his golden teeth so Jaylor has evidence that the guy is dead and has a souvenir of the dearly departed. Jaylor continuously expresses interest in raping a female prisoner a few cells down the line, and when Riddick refuses to "rile here up" for him, he promises that as soon as the prisoner riot starts, he'll kill her, THEN rape her. He's a necrophiliac rapist and murderer, and such a piece of complete scum that the other mercs were disgusted by him. He later kills the woman in front of her little daughter, and gloats about it to Riddick before he gets killed by him.
- Antonia Chillingsworth from Dark Fury is the bounty hunter in charge of the mercenary vessel that Riddick, Jack, and Imam run into. She's obsessed with the art of killing and death, while her primary hobby is to collect criminals and notorious fighters to place them in her collection of living statues. There they are frozen so that it takes them a whole day to so much as blink an eye, and they're conscious the whole time, trapped in a nightmare world for hundreds of years to come. She considers this her "artwork", and intends it purely for her own enjoyment. She cares exactly nothing about all the members of her crew she sends against Riddick and die as a result, just that she apparently paid them too much. She wants to make Riddick the latest addition to her collection, and before adding him to the exhibition she throws him and his friends in a pit with people-eating monsters to see him kill something up close. Riddick himself calls her an irredeemable psychopath. The fact that the person saying this is himself pretty much a sociopathic Noble Demon says it all, really.
edited 29th Jun '13 2:38:05 PM by Morgenthaler
You've got roaming bands of armed, aggressive, tyrannical plumbers coming to your door, saying "Use our service, or else!"
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Well, that's three King examples down, several more to go.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
There is no Planet B
Hi all, I wonder was Malware from YMMV.Ben 10 Omniverse approved?
A write-up for him appeared in another thread (help with English, link).
The troper who made the edit claims he was approved. I searched for it (just because he didn't seem to fit — sympathetic back-story, can't choose himself, doing evil is his nature; that's what the context says, I don't know the work itself). I found he was discussed, and about three people voted to cut him, but admittedly, I didn't find if it was final decision.
If he was voted to stay, then mea culpa for wasting your time. If there was not a final decision, I say nay to this character.
edited 29th Jun '13 3:08:01 PM by XFllo
So, I just finished Hitman: Absolution, and givem the games tighter writing and more detailed characters, I think there's some potential to have a couple of the villains here. Mainly Dexter and the Sheriff(and maybe that one guy that Dexter sends after the girl towards the beginning)
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Ben 10 I think we were still discussing...
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Sheriff Skurkey honestly doesn't nearly stack with the nastier members of the franchise to my recollection. Blake Dexter certainly does, but does he care about his son at all?
We also agreed to cut Sunlight Gardener and Annie Wilkes as well. Annie has no agency, no way to determine right from wrong. Sunlight loves his son.
Norman from Rose Madder' and Big Jim Rennie from Under The Dome'' are two definite keeps. Rennie's only possible redeeming features would be if he were a Well-Intentioned Extremist and if he genuinely loved his son Junior, except it's made abundantly clear he's simply a power hungry control freak who doesn't give a damn if everyone dies around him. He contemplates eliminating Junior when his insanity begins making him a liability and isn't remotely affected when Junior dies. In fact, he uses it to control some followers better and only seems offended when one lackey doesn't wish him condolences.
Norman is honestly the most vile, depraved son of a bitch in King's works.
Morgenthaler: I'm voting those up, thank you!
edited 29th Jun '13 3:52:55 PM by Lightysnake
I can't be sure if he cares or not, even when he's laying there dying having lost everything, his last words are asking for someone to hand him is money.
As for the Sheriff, he does routinely beat and kill prisoners for kicks, and even goes as far has to hold a innocent priest hostage at gunpoint when 47 catches up with him.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yeah, so far we have IT, Flagg, Norman, Gaunt, Wharton, and Rennie.
EDIT: And Norman seems like a monster among monsters, and he's completely human!
edited 29th Jun '13 4:29:57 PM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Since Flagg is pretty explicitly implied to be Satan, there should be no argument there.
RE Dexter: Yes, but this is The Hitman-verse...routinely abusing and killing people is as common as you get. The only guy who isn't an Asshole Victim is in the prologue Blood Money.
Flagg isn't Satan, either, nor is that an instant qualifier. He is, however, one of the Crimson's King's most powerful and evil servants and is a damn sight more effective than his Orcus on His Throne boss
edited 29th Jun '13 4:52:01 PM by Lightysnake
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I'm not arguing any of the examples we DO have (though Gaunt seems iffy to me for some reason); just trying to match the YMM Vs and the CM page.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Speaking of Flagg, why was his example divided.
Wait, are we talking about Flagg from The Stand? I know he's in the Dark Tower to, but I don't know anything about that work to speak of.
Flagg is from The Stand, Eyes of the Dragon, and Dark Tower. What I am wondering is why his actions in each book are in separate bullet points, and not the same one.
Did we do Tear Ring saga during the Fire Emblem cleanup?
If not, here are the examples to go over:
Pavlov, the boss of Map 10, is first seen whipping a rebel prisoner into unconciousness while interrogating her, asks his guards to pour water on her so she'll wake up and he can do it again, then arranges to have her burnt at the stake the next morning. (Luckily one of his men did a Heel Face Turn and rescued her) His portarait even depicts him carrying a whip! And this guy isn't even a main antagonist!!
The Dark Bishop Dagon counts too: he threatens anyone who goes against the Gazel Church with banishment to the labor camps at Zoa, which are discribed as a 'living Hell'. When he does this to an Anti-Villain boss who really doesn't want to fight you, he adds something like "don't worry, I'll make sure you have your family there to keep you company." When the guy finally snaps and attacks Dagon, he gets one-shotted before he even has a chance to strike. (And being burned to death by a tome called 'Hellfire' is probably not a pleasant way to go) Good thing you get to kill the guy afterwards.
Might as well add Renshien to the list. He casually admits to murdering his own mother, saying "It was for her own good, she had clearly gone insane. She kept calling me 'inhuman'." in front of his father, who he proceeds to abandon in the middle of a hopeless battle, his parting words being that he's already making arrangements for the burial! Oh, he also pinned the killing of his mother on Julia just because she happened to be passing through at the time, then hired Vega to kill her just to be sure. (Fortunately the latter does a Heel Face Turn upon meeting Julia and realizing she clearly didn't do it.) Later, if you choose to go to the B version of Chapter 26, he pulls an I Have Your Wife to force one of your party members to fight you, just because he thinks it'll be fun to watch! Even the top ranking generals of The Empire don't want to be seen associating with him.
The first one sounds like a standard Jerkass enemy general, but the other two sound monstrous. Not sure about the first one but keep the other two.
edited 29th Jun '13 10:38:04 PM by Klavice
Fair warning: I can get pretty emotional and take things too seriously.
Is he actually the same character in all of them? I've never read King and I'm not sure how that works from descriptions alone.
That would explain it, I'm going by his place in the Stand, where's he's pretty much Satan/The Antichrist.
From what I've heard that Dark Tower does some weird meta-stuff(with King himself even being a character in it), so that's a good question.
edited 30th Jun '13 7:23:03 AM by shoboni
Thumbs up to the Tear Ring Saga examples, Klavice.
And as for Flagg...yes, he's the same in every incarnation.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I'm gonna delete The Kid for being a ZCE.
EDIT: The Dark Tower YMMV page for the comics has this:
edited 30th Jun '13 1:10:39 AM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Never read it, but I'd say that's a maybe. I think the issue if caring about one person is enough to disqaulfy has been fuzzy.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Haven't we decided it does, that a CM can have NO redeeming qualities?
It's not been "fuzzy". It's been "they are out, period".
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Do I have the ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to snip all ZeroContextExamples from King with a link to this thread?
Would you mind doing the writeups so we can add them?