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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster get usage counts

Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

edited 15th Jan '13 1:45:24 PM by Fighteer

Getting back to the djjin, he kills people in truly horrible ways, in fact, the last two films show him skinning people alive. In the oppening of the first film, when an emperor wishes to be shown great sights, the Djin has people tortured and mutilated in front of the emperor, which is how he chose to interpret the wish. Another example would be when he crucifies a priest in the third film. He kills one man by turning his intestines into a monster and explode out of his stomach. He wants to unleash an army of other evil genies to take over the world, and after death, he sends his victims to a dimension for eternal torture, and, acording to the second fillm, he needs to do this to one thousand mortals. While he does want to unleash the other evil genies, he does not seem to actualy care for them, as he states in the last film that he plans to rule over the others, we know this because he tells the woman that he falls in love with, that if she accepts, she will be his second in command, meaning he plans to rule over the other genies. He traps one woman in a painting for all eternity, and turns another into a sentant but imobile statue for all eternity. While he does fall in love in the last film, he does tell the girl that if she does not love him back, he will have her sent to hell for eternal torture. I think he actualy tries to kill her at the end, though I could be wrong. Assuming I remember correctly, can a character still qualify after having fallen in love if they try to kill the persion they fell in love with later on?

edited 2nd Apr '13 2:38:13 PM by bobg

 
 10927 lrrose, Tue, 2nd Apr '13 3:47:36 PM Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Someone added Melissandre to Game of Thrones. I took the liberty of removing that example, as it it seems to be a kneejerk reaction to the current arc.

I also removed Dagmer Cleftjaw from that page. A quick search showed that we haven't really discussed him that much.

edited 2nd Apr '13 3:52:44 PM by lrrose

 10928 ACW, Tue, 2nd Apr '13 3:52:17 PM from Arlington, VA (outside of DC) Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Queen And Country seems like comic. Gorgon: seems like he might be a qualifier.
Gorgon sounds like a strong candidate. The new write up for Moncoutant is better. Replaced two bad write ups on Gundam subpage (manga!Glemmy and Valdor Farkill with better write ups).

edited 2nd Apr '13 6:09:57 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar

 10930 shoboni, Tue, 2nd Apr '13 7:15:54 PM from Iowa, USA
Found this on the TV page, if nothing else it's a zero content example. I don't anything about this character, but it's not giving much to make me think he's this trope:

Shane Casey borderlines this on CSI: NY, primarily after realizing his brother was actually guilty and starting to torment Danny and Lindsay.

Also, I'm debating if the Gormogon killer from bones should be on there, I think all his murders are Offscreen Villainy unless you count the bodies being found. We might think about removing him

edited 2nd Apr '13 7:25:14 PM by shoboni

"It's not that simple. We are all both, good and evil, we have rage and compassion, we have love and hate...murder and forgiveness."
[up]This is a common problem with police shows that I brought up a few pages back. Almost all crimes will be offscreen, however central they might be to the plot.

 10932 shoboni, Tue, 2nd Apr '13 7:26:05 PM from Iowa, USA
That, and we only see him once when the SWAT team kills him in his lair at the very end of the arc, he doesn't even get any lines.
"It's not that simple. We are all both, good and evil, we have rage and compassion, we have love and hate...murder and forgiveness."
 10933 shoboni, Tue, 2nd Apr '13 7:32:05 PM from Iowa, USA
To continue, from the music section, should Maxwell's Silver hammer be here when the song is pretty much played for Black Comedy?

And in video games, can we really count anyone form GTA consider it's borderline Humans Are Bastards?

"It's not that simple. We are all both, good and evil, we have rage and compassion, we have love and hate...murder and forgiveness."
 10934 Hamburger Time, Tue, 2nd Apr '13 8:04:06 PM from Right behind you
You know you want it ♥
The entry for Gormogon mentions that he himself is hardly ever seen, so I doubt his killings are. As I don't watch the show, the only other thing I know about him is that one of the main characters was randomly revealed to be working for him as a contrived excuse for the actor to leave the show, or something.

edited 2nd Apr '13 8:04:41 PM by HamburgerTime

 10935 shoboni, Tue, 2nd Apr '13 8:07:55 PM from Iowa, USA
[up]Pretty much.
"It's not that simple. We are all both, good and evil, we have rage and compassion, we have love and hate...murder and forgiveness."
 10936 Hamburger Time, Tue, 2nd Apr '13 8:12:10 PM from Right behind you
You know you want it ♥
That said, I think showing bodies of murder victims counts as a Gory Discretion Shot.
 10937 shoboni, Tue, 2nd Apr '13 8:21:42 PM from Iowa, USA
[up]It's no worse the other bodies they find, though.
"It's not that simple. We are all both, good and evil, we have rage and compassion, we have love and hate...murder and forgiveness."
 10938 Hamburger Time, Tue, 2nd Apr '13 8:25:36 PM from Right behind you
You know you want it ♥
[up] I wasn't talking about this case, just expressing my opinion on the principle of the thing.
 10939 shoboni, Tue, 2nd Apr '13 8:29:40 PM from Iowa, USA
Oh, okay

Where I'm coming from is that's a forensic drama, we can't go listing every villian that killed someone, they have to do something really bad on screen.
"It's not that simple. We are all both, good and evil, we have rage and compassion, we have love and hate...murder and forgiveness."
 10940 Hamburger Time, Tue, 2nd Apr '13 8:30:24 PM from Right behind you
You know you want it ♥
[up] I agree with that.
 10941 Nohbody, Tue, 2nd Apr '13 8:33:53 PM from Somewhere in Dixie Relationship Status: Mu
Just zis guy
Regarding "Maxwell's Silver Hammer", characters in a Black Comedy are easy cuts, as far as CM status goes. Came up several times back in the 200 page range with a few, including Invader Zim.

edited 2nd Apr '13 8:35:02 PM by Nohbody

That's what I think we're endeavoring to do here at any rate

I think that many sub-pages still have examples from a time when it was not required for them to go through this thread. Fixing them is a difficult and long process, because you need people who are willing to have a look at the whole work.

Cutting all un-discussed examples and have fans interested it the show bring it up later is one option. But I guess it's probably preferable to leave it on the page as is and have somebody argue for or against it. And I'm too new to this thread anyway.

That said, I'm willing to participate in this effort. It seems this thread works really well and quickly. [tup] The topic and the trope must be appealing. evil grin

RE: Djin: That looks really and truly awful. I'm inclined to say yes.

RE: "Maxwell's Silver Hammer". Cut.

RE: Police procedurals: Bones and CSI: I am all for cutting them. Best if we could get people who watch the shows and knows them in-depth so that they could argue about it.

Also concerning Monster.Live Action TV, I plan to bring up The X-Files very soon. Some of the examples are plain bad.

edited 2nd Apr '13 9:25:41 PM by XFllo

 10945 Hamburger Time, Tue, 2nd Apr '13 9:36:53 PM from Right behind you
You know you want it ♥
[up] I watch CSI, and added several of these examples. I'll run them by y'all.

  • Klinefelds: Keep, possibly the most Nightmare Fuel-inducing characters on the show. I actually added this (and started the section) after learning my mother, who's also a fan, refuses to watch their episode due to how awful they are.
  • Gang: Cut for being a group.
  • Collinses: Cut the mother and brothers, they're just accessory. I could see keeping the dad though, as he gets a Rape Discretion Shot. On the other hand, he's an entirely Posthumous Character.
  • Haskell: Cut, given a Freudian Excuse (namely, his dad was even worse than him, killed his mom and made him listen to her screams) in the episode he dies.
  • Gedda: Cut, he does nothing out of the ordinary for his line of work.
  • Dimasa: Didn't see his last episode, but something happened there with his dad, too; Freudian Excuse?
  • Gabriel: I'd actually keep her, though I can't really describe why. She's utterly brutal and has no regard for anyone.
  • McKeen: Ooh, I really want to keep him, but... he came back later on and it was revealed he loved his son (who was admittedly also his Dragon).

edited 2nd Apr '13 9:39:43 PM by HamburgerTime

[up] Oh, I forgot, if the examples did run through this already, I'll keep quiet. I play by the rules. :-)

All right, I read those examples, and the couple will give me nightmares just from reading it. They are a definite keep in my book. I must think a bit about the others, but I'll probably end up agreeing with you as you seem to know it really well. The series Big Bads might need some elaboration.

edited 2nd Apr '13 9:58:09 PM by XFllo

Time for some Highlander clean up..

  • The TV series of Highlander had quite a few evil immortals

    • Early villain Felicia Martins appears at first to be a Damsel in Distress, a young Immortal on run from the run from the brutal, obsessed Claude Deveraux. It is revealed that Martins is far older than she claims and Deveraux is hunting her because Martins murdered his wife and their adopted baby daughter. This is her MO: she ingratiates herself into the lives of her victims and murders everything they love, making it so they're off their game and she can easily take their heads. She attempts to murder hero Duncan Macleod's loved ones after she takes Deveraux's head and is last seen vowing to return and murder who Duncan loves after he spares her
    • Kalas, the Big Bad of the third season is an ancient Immortal who was previously a monk who helped his teacher run a sanctuary on holy ground for Immortals. Kalas, however, used the sanctuary to murder Immortals by ambushing them as they left. After Macleod exposed him and his teacher banished him forever, Kalas vowed revenge. He later attempted to murder a young singer after only suspecting Macleod was involved with her in the 1920s, and when he returned in the 90s, he systematically laid out a web to destroy everyone close to Macleod after murdering his old teacher, Brother Paul. Kalas shows no hesitation in torturing and murdering innocent people, destroying the live of anyone remotely associated with Macleod. At the end, he is willing to reveal the secrets of Immortals at large to world and throw everything into chaos if Macleod doesn't offer his head.
    • Kern of the episode Line Of Fire is described by his watcher as an 'animal, ' who rapes, kills and steals as he will. Kern in the past was a scout for American forces who loves killing Native Americans. He earned Macleod's enmity when he helped slaughter the Sioux village Macleod was living with and presented Duncan with the scalps he had taken. Kern has no remorse in taking an innocent young woman and baby hostage to gain and advantage and happily describes the crimes he has committed over the centuries when confronted.
    • Ernst Daimler is the only Immortal seen who's a former Nazi. A firm believer in fascism, Daimler sought to help 'purge' all lower races in World War 2 and ordered the slaughter of hundreds of innocent people, as well as wounded prisoners, until he was stopped by a young boy who stabbed him in the back. Thinking he was dead, the boy and his cousin wrapped Daimler in chains and threw him into the Seine where he remained for decades. In the present, Daimler leads a white supremacist movement and finds the little boy who stabbed him, now a kindly old priest. Daimler gleefully guns him down after terrifying him off holy ground, and then attempts to murder a pregnant woman who tried to stop him before Macleod intervenes and takes Daimler's head.
    • Kronos, an Immortal whose legacy of death dates to the Bronze Age. Kronos was the leader of the Four Horsemen, a band of Immortals who led armies to Rape, Pillage, and Burn across continents. Kronos was the most sadistic of all of them, slaughtering the innocent and raping who he desired, including a slave girl for no other reason than his sworn brother Methos had taken a liking to her. In the present, Kronos recruits Methos, now The Atoner, back into a scheme to reunite the Horsemen and create a plague to destroy all of humanity, viewing himself as the end of time itself.

edited 2nd Apr '13 10:33:47 PM by Lightysnake

[up]That looks a hell of a lot better than what was there before.

Speaking about write-ups - Star Trek TNG Data and Kivas might need improvement regarding Example Indentation.

Perhaps like this? (Using entries from the page and lrrose's post)

  • Star Trek: The Next Generation:
    • Data's brother Lore is a thoroughly unsympathetic android who kills his creator, reprograms his brother to follow his every command, and threatens to set teenage Wesley on fire. He summoned the Crystalline Entity to his creator's colony when the other colonists petitioned Noong to deactivate him out of fear that he would turn on them, and since then, he's been on quest to wipe out all organic life from the universe. If he ever shows affection, it's just to manipulate Data into collaborating. He also tried to make the Borg an even greater threat to The Federation than they already were. Given everything else we saw of his true nature, it's obvious that he mostly did it for his own sick amusement.
    • Kivas Fajo, the villain from "The Most Toys". A Collector of the Strange who wants to add Data, the only known android in the galaxy, to his collection. To do this, he poisons the water supply of an inhabited planet so he can capture him. He treats people and sentient beings like property. Then he talks very matter-of-factly about how he'd like to try out a particularly cruel Death Ray called a Varon-T Disruptor — illegal in The Federation because of how it slowly and painfully destroys the body from the inside out. He later does use it on his girlfriend, who is really more of a broken, codependent slave.


  • I'm not sure that the quote and "The Reason You Suck" Speech mentioned at the page are necessary to be included.
  • No spoiler tags as it's fairly old.
  • I wrote the name as Kivas Fajo, which is how imdb lists him.

edited 3rd Apr '13 12:26:57 PM by XFllo

And if that's not too late, I'd actually like to vote for keeping Alexis ¨from Star Trek DS 9.

Example as it's written:

  • Alexis from Paradise. She is, first off a complete hypocrite, praising a 'no-technology' life style while using advanced technology to keep her people from contacting the outside universe. Secondly, she lets people die to keep the illusion that 'no technology is better' even though O'Brien or Sisko could get a modern medical kit to treat the dying. Third: she institutionalizes torture for minor offenses, throwing people into a hot box for stealing candles. When Sisko doesn't break to her authority, she tortures him showing what she's probably done to ALL the colonists, and then she sent her devoted son to kill O'brien so he'd never get off the world. She's also an infuriating Karma Houdini, the people stay in her 'community' since they've developed Stockholm Syndrome, and the Federation prison she's going to will treat her FAR better than she treated her own damn people.

    • I admit I haven't seen the episode itself, but I follow SF Debris and his reviews, and he called her one of the worst villains ever of the entire franchise, and he's always most accurate. (I am such a fan girl of his, sorry ;-)) I am willing to research her character more. But she's a CM for me for now.

edited 3rd Apr '13 2:02:57 AM by XFllo

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