Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

Rictus is an odd character in that he would probably count in almost any other work and even seems like he was written with this archetype in mind. Unfortunately, the work he takes place in has all the characters, the protagonist included, who make mass murder, interdimensional terrorism, rape and torture so bloody commonplace that no single character is capable of standing out against the stories heinous standard.

story's

Rictus

Happy birthday 43110. Hope you had a good day.

Well with Izuniya that means Final Fantasy is up to, I wanna say 8 Complete Monsters across 15 main series games, and several spinoffs. Kinda wish it would have more, despite only being a T rated game.

Also Lighty, about that comment on Zelda not having very many complete monsters, Exhibit A: Pokemon. Pokemon was made specifically for kids and despite what everyone seems to think, is geared mainly towards kids. And yet it has almost as many monsters as Disney now. Disney is Exhibit B. Just because something is aimed at kids doesn't make it incapable or unlikely of having monsters. And Exhibit C is Fire Emblem, a series that has never received anything higher than a T rating, and yet has multiple examples (almost the most out of any video game franchise, with three in one game alone and the rest having at least one or two)

By any chance is Ghetsis' arc over with in the manga and can we vote on him? Or did we already when I wasn't around? (I'm talking about Manga Pokemon Special!Ghetsis not main series Ghetsis who is on the definitely not a CM list.)

edited 21st Mar '17 9:19:16 PM by Klavice

Yeah, Rictus doesn't count, sadly. As has been mentioned, it feels like he was WRITTEN to be one, but, much like the godawful Seth, written by the same hack writer as Wanted, Rictus just doesn't stick out enough given the setting.

Also, Millar's a hack.

Aaaaanywho, alongside a Happy Birthday to 43110 (Hope I remembered those right), I'd like to propose a rewrite for a villain who was, for a long time, my most evil candidate approved, and also one of my first.

Having recently refreshed myself on his crimes and such, I figure Makuta Teridax could do for a rewrite.

Current:

• Makuta Teridax is the Big Bad of the franchise as a whole, and is responsible for nearly every bad thing that happens. Starting out as a member of The Brotherhood of Makuta, Teridax coerced his teammates into betraying Mata Nui, then infected him with a virus. After Mata Nui succumbs to the virus and falls into a coma, causing innumerable amounts of destruction throughout the Cosmos, Teridax plans to erase the memories of an island of Matoran, then play himself up as their Savior. When the Toa, the heroes of the Matoran, try to free them from Teridax, he tries to kill them all before being sealed away. Eventually escaping, Teridax begins a centuries-long war against the Toa, at one point releasing the omnicidal Bohrok, who attempt to wipe out thousands of innocents. Teridax influences the Piraka into finding the Mask of Life, to which The Spirit of Mata Nui is bound, and they commit numerous atrocities while under Teridax's influence. Teridax assists the Toa in finding the Mask, knowing one of them will have to sacrifice themselves to keep The Spirit of Mata Nui alive. Teridax then reveals he played them all, takes control of Mata Nui's body, achieves godhood, then flings Mata Nui into space. Teridax goes on to murder his former allies, wage war against the remaining Toa, and subject any rebels who try to stop him, or minions who anger him, to horrific punishments. Traveling to the planet Mata Nui has been residing on, Teridax's last act is trying to blow it up just to spite him. While Teridax's final destiny was preordained, his villainous actions only worsened his and the universe's fates. Teridax was a monstrous and sadistic sociopath whose god complex cost millions their lives and ruined countless more throughout his 100,000-year campaign of evil.

Proposed rewrite:

• Makuta Teridax is the psychopathic narcissist responsible for orchestrating nearly all of the evil in the BIONICLE universe in his quest for godhood. Once a member of the peacekeeping yet vicious Brotherhood of Makuta, Teridax's campaing of evil began when, deciding he deserved to rule, he manipulated his fellow Makuta into betraying Mata Nui, infecting him with a virus that dragged him down from the heavens and sent shockwaves of destruction and anarchy throughout the cosmos. Following this, Teridax began waging war on anyone that wouldn't cow to his whims, with atrocities ranging everything from unleashing the genocidal Bohrok to kill thousands of innocents, to regularly trying to slaughter hundreds of Matoran. Even when seemingly beaten numerous times, Teridax always reaches out with his mind and corrupts other warlords like the Piraka into becoming his servants, and uses them to enslave and butcher entire villages alongside overrunning islands with the spider-like Visorak. Once gaining the god-like power he has so long craved by body jacking Mata Nui's original form, Teridax annihilates his former allies while treating all life as playthings for him to torture and sadistically kill as he pleases. Teridax also subjects many rebels to horrific fates worse than death, and goes on to torture and brainwash the former heroes of the Matoran into becoming his personal attack dogs. In the end, Teridax tracks down a revived Mata Nui on the desert world Bara Magna, and attempts to obliterate the entire planet and its population just to spite his "brother". Teridax was a depraved, shockingly vile villain for a franchise originally meant for children, and stands out as the only wholly irredeemable villain in the setting, with his monstrous personality and 100,000 year campaign of darkness made all the worse by the fact that, as alternate reality versions of himself show, he was fully capable of redemption, yet rejected it at every turn.

Not a MAJOR difference in word count, but I feel like not only does my rewrite do the character more justice, but I also feel it flows WAY better. My original, which was, once again, one of my first, reads more like a biography of Big T rather than a detailed analysis of his crimes and wicked personality.

Thoughts and/or criticisms are welcome, as always.

edited 21st Mar '17 10:01:00 PM by Ravok

Rictus

Ravk, you know what to do. Same for the Ito examples (FW).

Millar has done some optimistic work (Superior) and Kick Ass 3 actually was enjoyable (Red Mist redeemed himself and it has a happy ending). But yes Shithead (giggling) makes it VERY hard to take seriously.

Mr Rictus.

Because he doesn't fuck goats.

He makes love to them.

I've been flip flopping on Cook in my head, but I still remain against him for sanity reasons and a heinous standard that's wonky as all heck.

Millar can write good stuff, like Superman Red Son. It's just his propensity for the obscene that serves as his main hurdle.

edited 22nd Mar '17 3:42:08 AM by PolarPhantom

New proposal, from Blood of Beasts.

Who's the candidate?

Sven, finest warrior in the tribe.

What does he do?

At first Sven seems like a kind but overzealous warrior, even being the most enthusiastic man when King Thorsson announces his quest to slay the beast Agnar. However, just before he leaves, he indicates his true nature by indicating to Freya, whose hand in marriage he has been promised despite her protests, that she will "change [her] ways or [he] will change them for [her]."

The tribesmen attack Agnar, and most of them are killed. However, Sven flees, leaving the king to die in his indirect coup, and heads home with the survivors and claims king by right of betrothal to the royal bloodline. Later that night, he's talking to Eric, his supposed best friend, who has some Survivor's Guilt over the fact that Sven saved him over his king (who was actually captured, but they don't know that). Sven threatens him to keep his mouth shut if he values his life.

During a feast, Freya enters the throne room (which is also a dining hall) to demand that a man avenge her father. All refuse, due to fear of Agnar, so she promises her hand in marriage to whomever first takes up the sword. Sven declares that she is betrothed to him, and that she will marry him and bear his children, whether she wants to or not.

Sven, learning that Freya has gone on a quest to rescue her father, attacks Eric for telling her. He's about to kill Eric with his bare hands, but gets a knife held to the stomach for his troubles. He lets his foe live, but declares that his days are numbered.

Freya rescues Thorsson at the cost of her own capture, and sends him home with her servant girl Ingrid. When they arrive, Sven decides to kill the gravely ill king to secure his power.

However, he does not get the chance. Eric goes to the great hall and chastises the men for being cowards. Sven is about to kill him for the accusation when the others decide he's correct and go to rescue the princess. Sven goes too in order to maintain his image.

The army arrives at the beast's domain, and finds Freya. She pleas with them to spare Agnar, whom she has come to befriend in her time of capture. However, on Sven's prodding, the men fill Agnar with arrows.

At the wedding of Sven and Freya, Agnar the Nigh-Invulnerable comes to challenge the groom for the bride's hand. This leads to an epic duel where Sven is killed. He tries to make this a Mutual Kill, but Freya jumps in front of Agnar.

Heinousness?

His only competition is Agnar, who is cursed to randomly and uncontrollably mail people to death, but there are a couple factors that make this a non-issue:

• From my understanding, i involuntary actions don't contribute to heinousness.
• We only see Agnar kill those who have directly attacked him, and I don't consider self-defense to be part of the heinous standard unless it's particularly sadistic.
• Agnar actively tries to scare people away so he doesn't attack anybody, while Sven actively hurts people.
• Sven has to be a Villain with Good Publicity for his goals; Agnar does not.

Mitigating factors?

Nope. He's just an ambitious ass.

Verdict?

edited 22nd Mar '17 6:24:40 AM by DemonDuckofDoom

Since he's largely responsible for almost everything that happens, I'll give a slight for Sven.

to Sven and Saiki.

@Klavice: I don't think Lighty's point was that series aimed at younger audiences inherently can't have C Ms. It's just that worrying about it is pointless, this trope isn't a mark of quality or necessarily of maturity. So don't sweat it if there aren't many examples in a series. If someone qualifies they qualify, if they don't they don't.

edited 22nd Mar '17 6:49:10 AM by TommyFresh

Re: Rictus: It's not just that he doesn't stand out by the standards of the setting, it's that the Villain Protagonist commits MORE onscreen atrocities than he does. And even more hilariously, Rictus' Freudian Excuse (living like a saint before he almost died and discovered that life is meaningless) is far more valid than Wesley's whiney "My emo girlfriend is cheating on me and it's a crime against humanity that I'm not a multi-millionaire by 25" excuse for murdering people to his heart's content.

edited 22nd Mar '17 9:01:11 AM by Morgenthaler

Oh, also, Sven is an easy for me.

Freya sounds like the stronkest waifu.

@Wanted, I never read it, but why doesn't Wesley count? I'm assuming he doesn't.

EDIT: , Alright, clear cut redeeming qualities. Thanks.

edited 22nd Mar '17 9:10:42 AM by PolarPhantom

Wesley loves his dad and cries when he kills him (at his dad's own request).

And there's his care for Fox. And his mom, in passing. He's a little prick, but has inarguable redeeming traits.

One thing I don't get. It's implied that Wanted is in the same universe as chosen...which has the anti christ in it. So there would be a god after all.

Anyway Millar HAS done good work (dark as ultimates 2 was the final battle kicked all kind of ass and it was GREAT seeing the army of asgard come to kick Loki's rear)

Of course the original has a baby-killing, implied-gang-rape-leading Red Skull, so...

Speaking of Ultimate Marvel, Lightysnake mentioned that Ultimate Reed's redeeming quality wasn't so redeeming...

edited 22nd Mar '17 10:22:25 AM by ACW

Tentative Sven.

At Star Wars, should we move Krennic before Vidian? Catalyst takes place before A New Dawn.

I'll toss in a slight for Sven.
"Sven declares that she is betrothed to him, and that she will marry him and bear his children, whether she wants to or not." Looking at the work page, looks like they decided to make the implicit for the Gaston character explicit.

edited 22nd Mar '17 4:40:23 PM by ACW

I...may reserve the discussion on Designated Survivor for when the season is over.

Rictus

As a general question, how does Pragmatic Villainy factor into a discussion on a candidate?

Easy. Say a villain lets the hero(es) live simply because the villain needs the hero(es) to stop another villain that the heroes just so happen to be targeting. That's pragmatic. And in a situation like that, a villain could still be a CM.

Now, if the villain lets the heroes live because he/she has standards and isn't a cold-hearted bastard, then clearly that villain isn't CM material. Case in point: the villain from Call of Duty: Advanced Warfare could've easy killed the main character at the end. But he let him live because he's "not a monster." It didn't end well for him later.

edited 22nd Mar '17 8:13:22 PM by Tyk5919

Couple of posts tonight. One anime and one film. Anime first!

What's The Work?

Birdy the Mighty , namely the first season of Birdy the Mighty: Decode. Birdy Cephon Altera is an intergalactic police officer who chases an intergalactic criminal to earth...unfortunately, in the ensuing battle, a young human named Tsutomu is critically injured. Wracked by guilt, Birdy decides to remain on eartht o save him: merging their bodies so they share the mind, but 'swap out' who's using the body (IE: he transforms between himself or Birdy when she's in control), while his body repairs itself, while Birdy continues her investigation of the bad guys...namely the most terrifying alien criminal/weapon: The Ryunka and those who'd use it...

Who's Our Bad Guy and What's He Do?

Satyajit Shyamalan is a company executive....originally, Shyamalan was a young boy living in a third-world nation in a warzone. After his village was bombed, 4,000 people were killed...Shyamalan was the only survivor. Except, he was thrilled by it. He thought himself invincible: one of the "Chosen" people, inspiring a philosophy he'd hold throughout his life. Only the strong survive. The weak? Deserve to be 'purged.'

Shyamalan grows up exceling, eventually becoming a high ranking corporate executive...before making contact with the aliens....and by extension, the Ryunka, a super powerful lifeform that merges with a host on the planets it arrives on....learning how powerful the Ryunka is makes Shyamalan view it as a weapon and a way to begin his purge of the weak...he begins searching for it, executing those who know of his true intent.

It turns out, of course, that the Ryunka is in the body of someone close to Tsutomu: his friend Sayaka. When he realizes this, to 'agitate' her enough to draw out the Ryunka, Shyamalan strangles her grandfather with his bare hands, taking Sayaka and hooking her up to a machine to amplify the Ryunka....causing mass death and destruction throughout Tokyo. Shyamalan then reveals through a prerecorded video message to all of Tokyo that he plans to fully unleash the Ryunka's powers and allow it to "purge" humanity of all weak life, leaving only himself and a select few as the "Chosen" to reside on Earth. We see a number of people die: turned into glass by the Ryunka's power, or liquefied Unfortunately...as we all know, Evil Is Not a Toy

See, the Ryunka can't be aimed or controlled like Shyamalan wants...and declaring him an idiot, it uses its powers on him as well, turning him into glass and killing him on the spot, leaving Birdy and Tsutomu to stop the Ryunka itself.

Freudian Excuse?

Not one that holds up. Shyamalan lived through that warzone and came out the one survivor of that explosion...he frequently has dreams about it. Thing is? It didn't affect him or traumatize him in a way that'd be redeeming. It gave him a god complex and made him decide he was 'chosen' to rise above most of humanity. Even after his people die, we see Shyamalan just...grinning sadistically as a kid. Bad seed from the start and it's not played sympathetically.

Redeeming Qualities?

No. Shyamalan's philosophy is insane, and like I said, a god complex as he decides who's 'chosen' or not. He does seem to believe in his Social Darwinist philosophy, though. After the Ryunka destroys a small village when it is first awakening, Shyamalan finds a lone baby in the rubble. He proceeds to laugh like a maniac, proclaim that the baby is "one of the Chosen strong", and passes it to one of his befuddled scientists, stating that he's going to raise the child as one of his Chosen few.

Once again...it's not really played for sympathy. It demonstrates his mania in believing random chance is actually God/himself 'choosing' someone to be the pinnacle of humanity. And he wants to rule over the eventual Chosen himself.

He also did make the Sixth Sense, but I think this is negated by the one-two-three of The Happening, After Earth and Lady in the Water.

Heinousness?

Worst in season 1 for sure...and 2, given his body count would be, y'know, 'billions.' The Ryunka itself has agency issues, and Shyamalan outshines a LOT of other villains in the series.

Yep, keeper.

edited 22nd Mar '17 8:51:28 PM by Lightysnake