Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

I'll give a to Madder Red. Really he reminds me of Angel and Angelus. They share a body, but in every sense that matters there separate people and were involuntarily changed.

The moment I read “lobotomy” I made my decision.

for Madder Red.

I would agree that he is a completely different person to Filmore Press. But it is an interesting philosophical idea and it seems slightly different from other Heel–Face Brainwashing examples, the way Madder is completely gone, even with fears he might come back. I would even question whether or not Filmore even counts as a real person.

But that is a different conversation for another time and place.

If there were no intrusive surgery on his brain, I’d be MUCH more hesitant.

I’d have posted this earlier, but Internet troubles.

And yes, @ACW. I totally got Orange vibes from it, but didn’t want to ask because we know we have no candidates there.

edited 15th Jan '17 4:04:43 PM by PolarPhantom

username2527: in case I forgot to say it, happy b-day

Huh. Surprised Madder Red's meeting little-to-no resistance. Thought there'd be a bit more hesitation from some, but I guess not. XD To answer any wondering, yes, Madder Red is portrayed as a different entity than Fillmore.

While Fillmore has nightmares about Madder and acknowledges "I was a terrible person, but I don't won't to be that guy anymore", Madder is portrayed as a haunting entity rather than simply "old memories", as Fillmore sometimes imagines Madder's voice speaking in his head to hurt people, sees him in reflections around his environment looming over him, and, in the final chapter, Madder actually seems to start to resurface and tries to kill someone in a rage, only for Fillmore to willfully restrain himself and return to his docile personality once more.

Whether this is supposed to actually be Madder trying to take control once more or just Fillmore hallucinating is never stated, but it's worth mentioning.

So, yeah, Madder in no way, shape, or form wanted to be "fixed", and Fillmore is at no point portrayed as "Madder Red feeling bad for his crimes" but rather "Madder Red having been transformed into a different person entirely but keeping his memories".

On that note, I've got what I think is a pretty good image of Madder Red for the Image Links page. Opinions on it◊?

Also, nice quote for the quotes page, if a BIT long:

edited 15th Jan '17 4:16:46 PM by Ravok

Madder Red is basically like Angelus and Dark Marik then. So he's getting a from me too.

Also a to Abattoir and a to Muse.

edited 15th Jan '17 4:32:17 PM by ANewMan

Madder Red

On the subject of quotes, I think I found a good one for Dark Samus.

edited 15th Jan '17 4:26:10 PM by therealjackieboy

madder red

Muse and Madder Red

Abattoir

Hmm... well I checked out the other cardinals and Forcystus doesn't seem heinous enough (his biggest crime is transforming Marble into a monster causing Chocolat to hate Lloyd for a long time) while the other one has undying loyalty to Yggdrasil. However, could Remiel qualify? In just one scene of revealing everything the party has learned up to this point was a lie, he sends Colette and co on a journey to resurrect the world when really he just wanted a host for Martel only so he could become a Seraphim. He then proceeds to try and murder the heroes after coldly turning Colette into an emotionless mindless vessel. What's more is that by doing the journey of regeneration, it will cause another world (Tethe'alla) to be reduced to rubble potentially killing anyone in that world, which is why Sheena tried to kill the Chosen in the first place. I'd say he's at least a Hate Sink, but whether or not he's a monster remains to be seen. I didn't see any discussion on him so...

Muse (that would give Daredevil 6 examples, now) and Madder Red.

So, I've been on a bit of a Super Sentai binge, and I've noticed a few YMMV pages with CM entries that I don't remember ever being brought up here. They're obviously not on the Sentai CM page, either:

• Choushinsei Flashman (Ra Deus and Lee Keflen)
• Hikari Sentai Maskman (Zeba)
• Gekisou Sentai Carranger (Exhaus)
• Tensou Sentai Goseiger (Robogog and Buredoran/Brajira)

Of these...I'll be honest, I don't know Japanese at all, so all I can say based off the plot synopses I've read is that Ra Deus and Robogog are ultimately betrayed by Lee Keflen and Buredoran, and would likely not count. The other four might, but I haven't seen those seasons with subtitles. If anyone here or the original posters of those YMMV entries can effortpost for the other four, I'm willing to listen.

I might end up effortposting another villain whose season I actually have seen subbed. It was the villain who ultimately caused me to start lurking here, as I went to add him before I learned that Complete Monsters needed to be approved in a thread. I've always been a bit nervous, but I figure that I've put it off long enough. It would be my first effortpost, however, so if it ends up being not that good, I apologize in advance.

I guess that cuts Keflen, then. That leaves Zeba, Exhaus, and Brajira if anyone has more input.

edited 15th Jan '17 9:04:06 PM by finalsurvivor1

Keflen loved his artificially-created daughter IIRC.

Here's the effortpost on the Sentai villain I wanted to bring up. Since this is my first effortpost, it's a bit on the lengthier side since I don't know what is and is not important, so I hope you all forgive me. So here's the premise.

What is the work?

Choujuu Sentai Liveman is the twelfth season of the franchise. The premise is that, in order to better humanity, a college for geniuses called Academia is founded, which recruits from all over the world. Soon after the first year or two starts, three of the students (Kenji Tsukigata, Rui Senda, and Goh Omura) become much more aloof and arrogant. Five of the other students (Yusuke Amamiya, Megumi Misaki, Joh Ohara, Takuji Yano, and Mari Aikawa) were close to them, but pressed on with altruistic research anyway. Eventually, they created suits that would protect one's body, and Takuji and Mari tried them first. During the test, they spotted Kenji, Rui, and Goh outside late at night and went to follow them.

What they find is the three entering a spaceship. The three realize they're being followed and Kenji shoots at them, with Takuji and Mari blocking the shots to protect the others and dying.

Two years later, Academia is ready to send a mission to space. Right as they launch, however, a ton of alien ships attack, destroying the space mission and everyone on board while killing almost everyone else in Academia. Yusuke, Megumi, and Joh quickly meet the leaders: Kenji, Rui, and Goh, having become Dr. Kemp, Dr. Mazenda, and Dr. Obular, having joined the Armed Brain Army Volt, led by a man named Great Professor Bias, who has been making them smarter so they can help him take over the world.

If you couldn't tell, Yusuke, Megumi, and Joh are the titular characters of the show. And despite Kemp being the one to set the tone of the show by killing Takuji and Mari, he's not the one I'm proposing. I'm proposing the one responsible for their turn to evil: Bias.

Who is Great Professor Bias?

Great Professor Bias is the Big Bad of Liveman. He is the leader of the Armed Brain Army Volt, a group which basically believes in the superiority of ruthless geniuses and that everyone else can serve them. Bias despises the uneducated (which is basically everyone else), but knows potential when he sees it, such as when he corrupts Kenji, Rui, and Goh, having them compete with each other to improve their I Qs. Which, by the way, go up to 1000 in this show. This will become important later.

What has he done?

As shown through a flashback or two later on in the season, Bias corrupted Kenji, Rui, and Goh during their time in Academia. It is shown in the third episode that Bias personally approves most of the usual Monster of the Week plans, with this case allowing Goh/Obular to drain energy from people to turn him into Monster Obular. In later episodes, he abducts Book Dumb gang leader Arashi Busujima upon seeing his immense strength and corrupts him as well, educating him into becoming Dr. Ashura. Soon after, he turns Obular back into Goh and kicks him out of Volt, later encouraging the other to kill him. Goh ultimately survives and pulls a Heel–Face Turn, albeit in a mute, harmless state - just in time to get Put on a Bus. This arc also introduces Guildos and Butchy, two aliens who join Volt. Bias does little else for a long time, with episodes instead focusing on the doctors and aliens.

Then Goh comes Back for the Finale in the final arc, when Kemp's latest experiment happens to turn Goh invisible. The shock brings him back to his senses, and when he's visible again, Bias orders his immediate execution. The Livemen (now a five-man team, having been joined by Takuji and Mari's younger brothers Tetsuya and Junichi) save him, but realize that Goh knows something involving Bias and a secret room.

In the next episode, we see this secret room, which contains eleven brains in jars and one empty jar. Bias uses the brains' energy to create a monster and brainwash Tetsuya to blow up the Livemen and their base. Obviously, this plan is thwarted, and the shock briefly turns Bias into an old man. He is found by his Dragon, Guardnoid Gash, who helps Bias to restore him to the form he was in previously.

Following that, Guildos takes Butchy and starts to stand up to Bias, reasoning that aliens are superior to humans like Bias. He creates Guild-zuno, a monster in his own image and powered by his own life force. Junichi, in order to prove himself, keeps destroying the resurrecting Guild-zuno, which eventually depletes Guildos's life force...and gives him a Robotic Reveal. While the Livemen battle an enlarged Guild-zuno, Guildos simply wanders and falls off a cliff, exploding when he hits the ground.

When Butchy sees this, he does tests on himself and finds that he's a robot, too. When he confronts Bias, Bias coldly tells him that his memories of a happy life are fake and that he and Guildos were created by Bias to make the humans try harder to reach an IQ of 1000. He then delivers an ultimatum to Butchy: either go on a rampage or die. Butchy reluctantly chooses the former, but as Megumi brings Butchy closer and closer to a Heel–Face Turn, Bias remotely blows Butchy up while he and Megumi together in an attempt to kill two birds in one stone. Butchy saves Megumi before dying.

After Ashura kicks the bucket, Mazenda comes up with a plan that gives her an IQ level of 1000. Conveniently, Goh remembers Bias's secret room at this point and puts everything together:

Bias has been raising people's IQ levels to 1000 under the guise of a mentor so he could steal their brains for eternal youth and inflict Mass Hypnosis on Earth. And he was about to do the same to Mazenda.

Goh tries to warn Mazenda, but she doesn't believe until Gash comes up to her with a knife. She flees and turns herself into a robot before killing herself to make sure Bias doesn't take her brain. This leaves Kemp as Bias's last student. This leads to the final pair of episodes.

Kemp, having gone insane upon realizing what Bias wants, tricks the Livemen so he can give his brain to Bias. Gash takes it and returns to the Brain Base while leaving Kemp's transformed, mindless body to attack the Livemen, but Yusuke stows away on Gash's ship. Gash quickly makes it to Bias and gives him Kemp's brain, which allows Bias to brainwash every human on Earth, including the Livemen who aren't Yusuke. Yusuke fights through the Brain Base and finds Bias while Bias has the Livemen attack Colon, a robot ally of the Livemen who is unaffected by Bias's Giga Brain Wave. Bias threatens to use his powers to kill everyone on Earth after the Livemen kill Colon, which Yusuke responds to by quickly stabbing him. This accelerates the Fountain of Youth properties of the Giga Brain Wave, turning Bias into a child while freeing everyone on Earth.

A child who's still just as monstrous. Bias has Gash restrain Yusuke, torture him, and create one last monster to destroy the Earth. The freed Livemen save Yusuke from Bias and Gash while Megumi goes to stop Bias. Bias feigns innocence in his child form before shooting Megumi, mocking her for being weak. After rejecting Megumi's offer of redemption, Kemp's brain leads the other eleven brains in a rebellion against Bias, turning him into his true age: a very, very old man. After the final monster is destroyed, Gash and Bias retreat to the Brain Base. Bias starts to feel the effects of his age and orders the obviously destroyed Brain Base to take off, which kills Bias and Gash.

Freudian Excuse or other redeeming features?

The only thing I can see disqualifying him is his death, in which the senile Bias is told by Gash that he's successfully conquered Earth before he dies. I don't see this as disqualifying, as it shows simply that Bias was after immortality and conquest or, if that failed, destruction, no matter what his age was. Furthermore, the Livemen, despite trying to save the doctors and Butchy, do not mourn his death in the slightest, and the final scene of the show is them celebrating right after Bias's death. His kid form, despite sounding odd, is every bit as cruel as his regular form and is ultimately seen by Megumi as just a reflection of Bias's heart: a kid throwing a tantrum. Other than that, no Freudian Excuse or anything.

Heinousness?

Sets it for the season. The entire show is just Bias's giant attempt at conquest, though he goes past standard villain fare by being needlessly cruel with Butchy in his final episode and, as mentioned earlier, personally approving most episodes' plots. As the leader of Volt, he was also likely the one who sent the original three doctors to kill everyone in Academia, which they did. Furthermore, there's his omnicide ultimatum and final attack on Earth after becoming a kid while gloating that the initial attack - which destroyed multiple buildings - is just a taste of what's to come. And that's not to mention the fact that he built or corrupted every other villain in the season, thus being responsible for their atrocities (including the aforementioned massacre at Academia), and out-evils every one of them save for Gash, who was built to be completely loyal and has no personality anyway.

Final verdict

I'd say he's a keeper, but of course, I'd like to hear what everyone else thinks.

Bias, I think.
As for the other unapproved ones, cut and PM the tropers.
As for Muse, while that would indeed be 6 for Daredevil (7 if you count Film!Bullseye), one of those would be an interesting case: Doesn't Purple Man commit most of his crimes in Alias?

edited 16th Jan '17 2:40:25 AM by ACW

Bias

• Anime & Manga:
  • Rurouni Kenshin: Cut the subpage entirely, move each tree to its corresponding page.
  • Transformers: See below (film).
• Film:
  • G.I. Joe: Keep, also add to the main Film page (or keep as is).
  • Mortal Kombat and Rurouni Kenshin: Cut the subpages entirely, move each tree to its corresponding page.
  • Transformers: Cut the film stuff and say "Examples from the film series can be found here."
• Live-Action TV:
  • Disney: Cut the TV stuff, just change the the heading to "Animated Series", and just say "For TV series, see Live-Action TV."
• Video Games:
  • Disney: Remove entirely and just add to main page?
  • Mortal Kombat: Cut the subpage entirely, move each tree to its corresponding page.
  • Transformers: See above (film).

edited 12th Feb '17 2:59:43 PM by ACW

The following was added to YMMV.Moana:

• Complete Monster: Tamatoa is arguably this, once you get past his comical aspects. He ate his own grandmother, which he clearly doesn't regret, and tries to eat Moana pretty quickly after meeting her and mocking her for trying to be who she is on the outside and believing in what her grandmother told her. Then, his beatdown of Maui, especially when he mocks him for being abandoned by his parents and insecurities show just how utterly cruel he can be. He clearly enjoyed every second of what he was doing. If you ignore all his comical aspects, Tamatoa is actually rather sinister.

This immediately runs afoul of Examples Are Not Arguable, which tripped my radar. I've seldom done more than lurk in this thread, so I'm not intimately familiar with all the requirements for CM, but this strikes me as shoehorning. He's a nasty dude— he does try to eat our heroine, after all— but hardly up there with the sorts of characters I see when I peruse the CM example list.

I've deleted it with a note that I've brought it to this thread for discussion.

Cut it, burn it, salt the earth.

Eating his grandmother was Offscreen Villainy IIRC

Bias

edited 16th Jan '17 8:06:55 AM by Silverblade2

...What? Tamatoa isn't anything close to this trope. More sinister and unsettling than he seems on the surface, sure, but that does not = Complete Monster at all.

Burn that entry. Tamatoa doesn't even begin to qualify for this trope. Te Ka is arguably more heinous than he is.

Hell, I'd argue that Maui is more heinous than Tamatoa (was perfectly willing to let life on the other islands die with no remorse, and repeatedly tried to leave Moana stranded in the ocean for dead).

Cut that. And in case the troper comes to this thread to propose him, to Tamatoa.

edited 16th Jan '17 10:17:36 AM by Awesomekid42

Oh, Jesus, that's a good old misuse of the trope. We might as well go ahead and add the 2016 King Louie onto the list as well.

Thank you for cutting that, regardless.

BTW, Tron is Henriksen's second animated series CM. He was also Chains Cooper, and was also a CM in two other works. So, 5 entries, spread over animation, films, and games. That's approaching Mark Hamill there (Hamill has games and animation, plus TV and anime).

this

edited 16th Jan '17 10:40:14 AM by ACW