During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
I think it was last year when I saw the Cinema Snob review for Cannibal Ferox and finally got to seeing the actual movie and re watching the review.
As the title would suggest Cannibal Ferox is an obvious cash in on the more famous Cannibal Holocaust, and about as dark as the latter, right down to the animal violence. The plot focuses on a woman named Gloria, who is studying her theory that cannibalism as an organized practice is a myth, and is taking a crew, including her brother Rudy and naive friend Pat. There's also a subplot about the NYPD looking for this movies Alan Yates stand in, Mike Logan, a drug dealer on the run from the mob.
Who is Mike Logan ? What Does he do ?
The movie opens with one of Mike's usual customers having a run in with mobsters at Mike's apartment. Turns out Mike stole a hundred grand from them and has jumped town. Following this, the police step in and begin a search for Mike of their own. Mike himself appears later on when Gloria and her group find him and his wounded partner Joe in the jungle. Mike explains how he and Joe went to South America for a cocaine deal when they learn of jems in the Amazon. Mike decided to get some jems of his own, making money off emeralds and cocaine. During their trip they ran into cannibals, who tied up their guide and castrated him before killing him. Mike and Joe managed to escape but Joe was wounded by a spear.
Later on Gloria goes missing from the group and they search for her. They find her at an all but desolate tribe where elderly villagers don't show aggression but are oddly scared by them. When they get Gloria back, Joe passes out from blood loss. They take him back to camp where Mike opts to simply leave Joe behind and let him die. When they refuse Mike tells them he can make it back on his own but he "liked them". He shows that has four bullets in his gun, not enough to fight off the cannibals but opts a suicide pact if they catch up to them.
Mike seduces the naive Pat and gives her cocaine when they have sex. Afterwards he takes her by a river where they see two teenage villagers, a boy and a girl playing by the river with a tortoise. Mike takes Pat to tease them before grabbing hold of the girl, and deduces that she's a virgin, before tearing her top off and encouraging Pat to torture the girl with a knife. Pat hesitates and when the boy calls for help, Mike threatens to shoot him before Pat throws the knife down. The girl flees and Mike guns her down. Rudy hears the gunshot and a fight starts between him and Mike before Mike pulls the gun on him. They are called back to the hut where Joe is having a relapse. Since they are out of medicine Mike opts to leave Joe to die again, but when they refuse, he leaves to find some plants that could help him.
While Mike's out, Joe tells the real story of what happened as told in flashbacks; after Mike and Joe stole money from the mob, they fled to South America where they met one of the villagers who told them of emeralds he found, and got them to join him in finding more in a river. The plan was to con the man and take all the jems he found. The plan was going smoothly when Mike ends up taking the villagers hostage, including elderlies and women with babies. Mike took the villager they intended to scam, tied him to a post and began to torture him with a knife. Mike demanded to know where he was hiding the emeralds but the man said that the three was all he found. Mike didn't believe him and took one of the hostages and butchered him with a machete, before going back to their "guide", cutting out one of his eyes and castrating him. The man bled out the next day, and Mike just enjoyed himself some coke. Mike takes another girl hostage and forced her to lead them out of the jungle, where they encounter a warrior who tired to stop him, but Mike killed him and a trap killed the girl. That's when the protagonists found them.
During the police subplot, the detective looking for Mike finds Mike's girlfriend, and she says she incidentally doesn't know much of what Mike's up too. She mentions that Mike made her have an abortion because they don't have money for a kid, but unbeknownst to her, Mike had hidden 100, 000 dollars. She mentions that she got a call from Mike saying that he's in the amazon. The detective heads there and gets a guide to help in the search.
Gloria and Rudy find that Mine ditched them with Pat, stealing the money and the map, leaving them to die and Joe ends up bleeding out. They then encounter the villagers who have captured Mike and a scared Pat. Gloria and Rudy are also captured and Mike is tortured by the natives who castrate him. They are taken up river, where Rudy ends up being killed by piranhas. Gloria and Pat are thrown into a pit but Mike makes an escape of his own, killing a couple of natives. One native takes pity on the girls and offers to help them out of the pit, but Mike scares him off cuts the rope, leaving them to their fates. Mike attempts to flee and tries to wave down the plane searching for him, but is captured again, this time, having the top of his head cut off. Pat is later tortured to death by having hooks stuck through her breasts but Gloria escapes with the help of a villager. Gloria is ultimately rescued by Mike's search party.
Redeeming Qualities or Freudian Excuse ?
Absolutely none.
Heinous by the Standards of the Story ?
More or less sets it.
His crimes include holding a village hostage to steal jems, killing multiple villagers over the course of the film, including a young girl, seducing another girl and encouraging her to torture one of the native girls, repeatedly leaving the protagonists and his partner to die.
There is the matter of the villagers and cannibalism in the movie. However it is said and shown the villagers are not savage cannibals...for the most part and are rather peaceful and reasonable. The movie paints it as that the reason they are doing what they're doing is retaliation against Mike's actions, as he was so cruel that in their distress they resorted to a violent mindset. The movie plays this off as karmic retribution much like Cannibal Holocaust and unfortunately the protagonists are forced to pay for what Mike did too.
There's also the presence of the mob looking for Mike, but beyond killing one junkie, don't contribute to the heinous standard.
edited 27th Aug '16 2:17:15 PM by Beast
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Mike I think, though honestly, do this film and Cannibal Holocaust have ANYTHING going for them besides Gorny Torture Porn?
Yes the movie does have a actual plot beyond the gorn. Most of the movies focuses on the expedition and the police subplot.
Cannibal Holocaust I can't speak for, never watched the movie myself, save for a few clips. Most of my knowledge of it comes from what I've looked up and the Cinema Snob review.
edited 27th Aug '16 2:49:32 PM by Beast
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
For Charles, Max, and Mike
Caesar and Mike
Cannibal Holocauat does have a plot, complete with social commentary. Half the film is finding Yates's footage.
Not particularly fond on voting on a character or a movie of the ilk of "Cannibal Ferox."
Anyways, time for that candidate I was talking about earlier. The anime's a thirteen-episode runner called Occult Academy. While it's normally a fairly wacky series, that wackiness up and dies in episodes 11 and 12 where we meet our candidate. Enter Mikaze Nakagawa.
Who is Mikaze? What has she done?
Mikaze is a seductive black mage who seeks to open a portal to Hell, unleash the horrific monsters within, and destroy the world. In this goal, she's opposed by the white mage Chihiro and her demon familiar. After a series of attacks from Mikaze vowing that she would kill anyone that got in her way, Chihiro turned to the founder of Waldstein Academy (or prominently known as the titular "Occult Academy," known for its various supernatural occurrences), Jun'ichiro Kumashiro, and knowing Mikaze would attempt to kill him, banished him away with a spell. Through a complex series of circumstances and a Faking the Dead scenario, Mikaze believed herself to have killed Jun'ichiro - and promptly went for his daughter Maya next.
Through most of the series, Mikaze is under the guise of an amicable, enthusiastic young chef at a local curry restaurant. She befriends one of the central protagonists of the series, Fumiaki (a time agent sent 13 years back from 2012 to prevent the apocalypse by destroying "Nostradamus' Key," the catalyst for the world's end) and spends most of the series gradually getting closer to him. So it seems, anyways; Mikaze gradually grows clingier and clingier to the point where her insistence on trying to see him interrupts in his search for the Key and comes to the point where she goes into his house without his express permission.
Come episode 11 and Mikaze takes Fumiaki to see her true self; she's actually the leader of an Apocalypse Cult (comprised of dozens of people, all of whom she's brainwashed into her virtual slaves) meaning to kill Maya and destroy the Academy and then open a gate to Hell. Fumiaki is predictably shocked, but Mikaze essentially forces herself onto Fumiaki, forcefully kisses him, and seduces him into doing her bidding. Once Fumiaki confronts Maya on the subject, she runs off and is seemingly killed off. Although Mikaze is initially deceived, she quickly learns that, with Chihiro's help, Maya faked her own death. Mikaze is quick to pick up, ambushes them and Fumiaki once they regroup, and paralyzes Fumiaki, stating she'll draw out his death once she's finished with Maya, Chihiro and her aide. Chihiro and Maya flee and Mikaze is quick to assume her true, witch-like form and have her mindwashed cult pursue them and try and kill her friends as well.
Mikaze takes the opportunity while chasing Maya to gloat that she was responsible for the apparent death of Maya's father. Chihiro leaves Maya in the care of her demonic aide whilst she confronts Mikaze. The two quickly engage in an intense magical battle above the town, where its simultaneously revealed Mikaze's also behind the summoning of the various creatures seen through the series, and by proxy, all the dozens of deaths they're responsible for (the mothmen are responsible for killing off at least five of the other time agents that came before Fumiaki, and the chupacabras have an entire stash of skeletons in their nest) - all whilst trying to kill Maya specifically. After Chihiro expends most of her energy subduing the other creatures Mikaze summons, they duel for a little more before Mikaze finally gets the upper hand. Mikaze boasts that she kissed Fumiaki to Chihiro, before stabbing and killing her.
Mikaze corners Maya at the Academy after wounding the demonic aide. Maya reveals she has possession of a spell capable of sealing Mikaze, but Mikaze, evidently not that enthused about that, simply blows the notebook with the spell away and prepares to kill Maya. Right on time, Fumiaki arrives and takes the notebook. Mikaze leaves Maya pinned by her neck against a wall and once again tries to seduce Fumiaki. It doesn't work; eventually, through sheer will, Maya and Fumiaki recite the spell even as she tries to kill them, ultimately resulting in a blast of energy that completely vaporizes her and the other demons. As Mikaze seemed to be the Key, the heroes relax and celebrate now that the world is saved and the apocalypse has been prevented.
...except the Bad Future wasn't averted and the Key was something completely different, meaning that Mikaze, despite being more or less the villain of the show, was completely irrelevant to the main plot at hand. Good twist, show.
Any mitigating factors?
...There's really not much to talk about here. No Freudian Excuse, no redeeming moments, her motive is essentially For the Evulz, she's a colossal sadist, and any humanizing moments from before she was revealed as evil are ultimately revealed as purely for the purpose of manipulation. As for heinousness... mind-jacking dozens of innocents into forming an apocalyptic cult with the intention to bring Hell on Earth, plus the numerous other Kick the Dog moments she boasts more than passes her across the baseline. She's notably stand-out given how the series is otherwise pretty lighthearted, a plotline about a seven-year-old freezing to death not withstanding.
Conclusion?
No real reason why she shouldn't count.
Thoughts?
edited 27th Aug '16 3:57:41 PM by Scraggle
to Caesar and Mike.
Wild Child
Mikaze.
Lizzid people!
Mikaze and Mike.
edited 27th Aug '16 4:28:00 PM by AustinDR
Wild Child
I found this on Final Fantasy Tactics.
- Complete Monster: By far, the worst of all has to be Duke Barrington. He starts out by burning down Rafa's village and then saving her and her brother, but not for remotely benevolent reasons. Her brother he seems to be grooming to be an unflinchingly loyal soldier, and what he does to Rapha is simply unspeakable.
This entry isn't on the main Final Fantasy page.
Why so serious?
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
We've had some discussion over Barrington in the past... I don't think we ever reached a conclusion for him.
Yes to Mikaze and the others mentioned in the last couple pages.
Well, I have one 2000 AD example...in its quirky, unique lead heroes, we also have Devlin Waugh. Devlin is a foppish, flamboyantly gay, charismatic fighter who is a freelance agent for the Vatican who also happens to get infected with vampirism (and I do mean he's flamboyant. I'm actually surprised he's not the poster child for Badass Gay actually...I digress).
Now, Devlin jets about the world dealing with all sorts of Supernatural nastiest. That's all we need to know. Who's our villain? Aaron Landis. The Bloodsire of a nasty strain of vampirism. Landis is a criminal at first, imprisoned in the undersea prison Aquatraz, where the worst criminals are held...then Landis, in a prison brawl, bites a strong prisoner...and sets back to wait...
Who Is He and What's he Done?
In Swimming in Blood, Landis promptly kicks back and allows his newly sired minion to begin biting and turning all those in the near vicinity. Soon enough, there's a full on orgy of blood vampire outbreak, with the guards being slaughtered and Landis directing the hardened, dangerous prisoners to be turned. 900 prisoners are turned with tons of staff and others butchered.
Devlin and team arrive in Aquatraz to kill Landis before he can escape into the world. During this time, Landis also directs his vampires to commandeer a nearby submarine which entails, you guessed it, killing everyone on board. During a fight with Landis's minions, Devlin sustains a bite and turns, but manages through sheer force of willpower (The man is a badass, have I said that yet?) keep his humanity. He and Landis square off, and Dvlin punches a hole in his throat before the out of control sub busts through. Landis is presumed dead...
Except, Landis survives. The vampires escape into the sea, while the area is quarantined. Some people turn it into a sort of marine park: Fangland, where people can pay sums of money to hunt down the breeding vampires with guides, with Landis himself having a million dollar bounty on his head. The vampires are relatively quiet for ten years...until they learn a boat is going through, bearing with it Lilith Karnstein, the Daywalker. A vampire with the power to walk in the sunlight, and the power can be taken if she delivers a bite to another vampire....OR if another vampire drains her. Landis wants to drain her dry and eat all of her for good measure.
The vampires attack a hunting boat and the other ship, slaughtering whatever they can. Devlin happens to be on the ship and he and his team spring into action. Landis then directs a full invasion force at Fangland....leading to a scene of mass butchery. People are torn apart, men, women and children alike. Even babies aren't spared from the butchery. When Devlin and team make it ashore, Landis approaches them personally, telling Devlin he has thirty seconds to surrender Lilith or else he's going to tear out the throat of a little boy he's taken hostage....thirty seconds later, he keeps his word. The fighting goes on throughout Fangland, where more innocents are killed. Landis confronts Devlin (while also grabbing an innocent young woman and kills her by tearing her jaw off in front of Devlin).
Revealing he wants to create a new line of powerful, daywalker vampires, Landis gloats about the new world: snatching people off twilit streets, "eating fat children on their paper routes," and then attacks again. Lilith sacrifices herself by having her captors detonate her explosive suit to kill Landis for good. his last words are him furiously vowing to rape Lilith, kill her and eat her corpse. (not much a sacrifice as she promptly possesses another vampire nearby, which is kind of a dick move)....Devlin ends the arc by noting being a Daywalker will make him a target, "But I'm certain my innate charm and ingenuity will see me through. Life can be simply ripping sometime, what?"
Heinous Standard?
Well, my knowledge of Devlin Waugh is admittedly not that in-depth, but Landis clears the baseline easily, with hundreds, even thousands, to his name easily, and his ultimate visionary goals for vampires...so I'm inclined to give him a good pass on this one.
Redeeming Qualities?
Well, no. Landis doesn't really care about his minions at all. He makes them en masse and just...doesn't really treat their deaths as worthy of anything resembling his attention or care.
Conclusion?
I'd say yes.
edited 27th Aug '16 4:35:10 PM by Lightysnake
Solid yes to Landis.
Any of us figure we can finally resolve Barrington?
to Aaron Landis.
Lizzid people!
Landis.
Finalizing my opinion to cut Jack Noir.
edited 27th Aug '16 5:03:26 PM by AustinDR
The Merry Monarch of Darkness
Aaron Landis.
A total has-been.
I'd say Gerrith Barrington is a since he's essentially Craster from A Song Of Ice And Fire and Game Of Thrones - has the same sort of crimes that manage to make him stand out even among the "bigger" villains in the same setting.
edited 27th Aug '16 5:50:47 PM by ANewMan
Landis. That comic sounds like something I need to read.
Why are we cutting Jack Noir?
Is there an effort post on Barrington?
Lizzid people!
Because he most likely had an Even Evil Has Standards moment while witnessing Lord English's rampage.
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
-inhales deeply-
Air Force Lieutenant General Charles Samson Russell, Dr. Max, Mike Logan, Mikaze Nakagawa, and Aaron Landis.
Can we just make it simple and say every major villain from a 2000 AD comic is a CM? I mean really. ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
edited 27th Aug '16 6:24:36 PM by Tyk5919
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
RIP Toriyama
'Yes' to Caesar, Mike, Mikaze, and Landis.
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
@Austin: The look of shock thing? Doesn't sound like standards to me.
Air Force Lieutenant General Charles Samson Russell, Dr. Max, Mike Logan, Mikaze Nakagawa, and Aaron Landis.
Holy crap, my post looks bigger than Iespected.![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]")