Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

I never believed Thawne counted in the first place, the new episode is the icing on the cake, my opinion is still: axe him.

edited 7th Oct '15 9:38:39 AM by Forenperser

on the Chaos Kin. I made the mistake of making a writeup on the YMMV page for the Chaos Kin years back without coming to the thread. The problem isn't that the Chaos Kin isn't as heinous as Hades, it's because it really isn't that much of a character. It's a Generic Doomsday Villain that's explicitly said to only exist to destroy and wreak chaos. There's also the questionable reason of devouring souls. While I haven't played Uprising in a while, I think it's plausible that the Chaos Kin is motivated by self-sustainment, and there's little suggesting that the Chaos Kin is doing this out of sadism or to prolong any form of immortality unlike the Beast, because the Chaos Kin has basically nothing of a personality or even a clear motive to begin with.

And for what it's worth, I'm absolutely in favor of cutting Thawne.

edited 7th Oct '15 11:27:03 AM by Scraggle

to Chaos Kin. It doesn't have enough of a personality to differentiate it from Hades.

If nothing else, its main concern is survival, and it does that on instinct. Dangerous, yes, but not a monster.

edited 7th Oct '15 9:59:37 AM by Serocco

Definite on Chaos Kin now.

Speaking of nonsentient beings: How do they affect the heinous standard? For example, if a story has a Serial Killer who kills ten people, and a shark that eats twenty, can the killer still count?

Also, do True Crime novels count as fictionalized versions of true events, or forbidden Real Life examples?

edited 7th Oct '15 10:59:47 AM by DemonDuckofDoom

Fictionalized versions of true events are absolutely admissible.

Oh, I knew fictionalized versions were admissable. If they weren't, Commodus}} and Longshanks wouldn't be there. I was asking if True Crime novels like, say, In Cold Blood or The Stranger Beside Me could have candidates, or if they were too close to real life.

edited 7th Oct '15 11:08:38 AM by DemonDuckofDoom

Yes the serial killer would still easily qualify if the shark killed more people. The shark is like the force of nature. It is like we have a serial killer and an earthquake that destroys the entire city. So, yeah the serial killer would still count (assuming there wouldn't be other disqualifying factors).

DDD: If the killer is as bad as possible with the available resources, (s)he'd count.

The problem there isn't just resources.

Even if the shark performs a HeelFaceTurn, has a family and fights the evil Russian shark Ivan Sharkovsky (who may count for this trope if the former didn't set the bar_, he can still set the heinous standard.

What are you talking about Lighty? Also, what does Jaws 19 have to do with it?

Watch the trailer and it should become abundantly clear how I was joking.

Long time ago, I proposed Castlevania Satan image but it was too small. I think I found a bigger version. http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/castlevania/images/c/c0/Satan4.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20140325015334

Edit: sorry it is still too small.

edited 7th Oct '15 3:26:52 PM by emperors

Beast, could you please add Jerome's writeup to YMMV.Gotham?

Satan image

First we have to figure out how to make it bigger. It is supposed to be big; it is very big on the website I found it on (Castlevania wiki).

I looked at the YMMV page for Akame Ga Kill, and I saw that Esdeath was listed as a Complete Monster.

The same cannot be said for the main page on Complete Monster, where she is conspicuously absent.

So that YMMV edit was clearly done unilaterally. I think there was discussion on C Ms in AGK before, and anyone who's seen the series can tell you that Esdeath does not count, so I say remove the edit.

edited 7th Oct '15 10:20:10 PM by Serocco

Don't worry about that Serocco I took care of your Akane ga kill! problem.

Speaking of which, I noticed something similar to that in the Wakfu YMMV page where Quilby was labeled asa CM, but his entry doesn't appear in the main page. I'm not saying that he doesn't count, but don't recall a time we talked about him if we ever did. Any who here is his CM entry

Wakfu: Quilby is a member of the six original eliatropes, and a nihilistic nearly-heartless psychopath who happens to be worse than Wakfu's equivalent of Satan. Before the start of the series, Quilby starts a war with the mechasms, resulting in the deaths of most of the eliatrope adults, the destruction of their world, and later, the near extinction of all eliatropes, confining the children to an isolated dimension for who knows how long. But it gets worse: After, Yugo and Adamaï accidentally release him, he takes Adamaï and Grougal, onto the Zinit, and brutally mauls them with sadistic glee. He then gifts Adamaï to Anathar to have him possessed, and opens a zaap for the shushus to invade and eventually destroy the World of Twelve. When he and Yugo get transported to the white dimension, he plans to imprison Yugo in there after he's done forcefully kidnapping the eliatrope children against their will. He would eventually absorb all the Wakfu from the world and many others to fuel the Zinit. When the two arrive in Emrub, Quilby, strangles Balthazar before the childrens' eyes, and severely incapacitated the ones who resisted. Although he loves his dragon sister Shinonume, it's severely outweighed by the atrocities he committed.

While I'm talking about this subject, we haven't reached a conclusion if Nicolai from the movie the Equalizer counts as a CM or not if I had not vote for him I'll give him a

As for Jerome Alaska from Gotham I'm giving him a for him.

edited 7th Oct '15 10:17:50 PM by G-Editor

Qilby, from what I can remember, is still a fairly tragic individual and his final fate reeks of Alas, Poor Villain. Plus, that whole "loving his sister" thing can't be glossed over. Cut that entry and burn.

No, I'd say Qilby is a . I remember Qilby either exaggerating or outright fabricating his past to cover up his own shifty involvement in the loss of his people. I could be wrong, and I have no authority on the sister part, so I'll change my mind if anyone else gives me more info.

edited 7th Oct '15 10:27:28 PM by Serocco

What Scraggle said. Do we have evidence Qilby didn't love his sister? Because it doesn't matter how bad they are. One redeeming quality and they're off the list. It's been a long, long time since I saw Wakfu, so I can't rightly comment, but Scraggle's right.

Again, can someone please tell me how Nicolai is a CM? Having seen the film, Nicolai has a very low body count, and he's not the man in charge. His boss, Pushkin is more responsible for the sex slavery and trade than he is, and while he kills one girl, most of the rest of what he does is offscreen villainy or bog standard bad guy behavior.

As I know nothing about Wakfu, I will defer to Scraggle and Lighty's judgement and Qilby.

Oh. Well, in that case, Nicolai then. Could Pushkin count?

edited 7th Oct '15 10:48:12 PM by DemonDuckofDoom

Nope, Pushkin's only in the film in one scene

Keep Reverse Flash. His "Pet the Dog" moment doubled as a Kick the Dog since he admits it still won't make Barry happy. He admits it doesn't matter if he confesses. Also, it doesn't change that he admitted he'd kill everyone, even Barry's father in the season finale. Since Tom is onboard for Season 2, let's not remove him in case new info shows up that justifies his spot.

Also, agreeing with the Chaos Kin. It's evil, yes, but unlike Hades it has no personality or character. It's not a sadist, nor does it imply it has a beef with anyone. So, unless the next Kid Icarus game, hopefully before 20+ years, hsa the Chaos Kin expanded on, I'd say leave it off.

Here is my rewrite of Eraldo Supryor before I do an Effort Post, so people can get all their info before deciding. I'm responding to Lightysnake saying via PM that there needed to be more context for Eraldo Supryor.

Who/what is he?

Eraldo Supryor is a full-time Mad Doctor and part-time Mad Scientist, working for the resident paramilitary Anti-Magical Faction in Skuurnur. He is a Culliver (the original, in fact), a Power Nullifier designed to repel, restrict, reject, repulse, replaced, even remove anyone with an Aura that can be used for combat, and in fact, anyone with Aura, period.

Obsessed with evolution and researching the "epitome of Man" (ala Aura Users), Supryor is a perfectionist, believing that a scientist must always strive for something flawless, as a way to drive themselves, to always be self critical, and to never be satisfied with "half-measures" when something greater can be obtained.

What were his actions/motives?

In his backstory, Eraldo set up a private clinic dedicated to converting regular humans into Cullivers. Eraldo conducted frequently lethal human experimentation, without informed consent, on thousands of his own patients, involving various syringe injections, serums, infections disguised as vaccinations, and infected or poisoned food supplies. Sometimes, these were accompanied by experimental drugs, electroshock therapy, sleep deprivation, deep sleep treatment, and Gaslighting, for the sake of differentiating the varying reactions, biologically, physically, and psychologically.

This led to Eraldo's patients arriving for anxiety, chronic depression, or claustrophobia, and leaving with amnesia, permanent debilitation, partial paralysis, blood poisoning, tumors, even death, among other such disorders. His methods worked after a long while, however, and he eventually converted hundreds of thousands of humans into Cullivers. This led to a period of ethnic persecution, before culminating in a series of insurrections that toppled entire governments, ravaged whole countries, and turned millions into refugees.

In the present story, he is now Skuurnur's top doctor-scientist, tasked with converting and upgrading all Cullivers working under Skuurnur, as well as researching captured individuals who are seen as threats to society and the Balance of Power. He set up other facilities around the world, but dedicated to researching vampires, werewolves, dragons, fairies, etcetera, rather than Aura Users. His methods include, without the knowledge of his comrades, simulated strokes, heart attacks, frostbite, and hypothermia, vivisection, heat strokes, and surgery without anesthesia, all dedicated to examining the biological makeup of non-humans in the worst ways possible.

At some point, as the threat of war became stauncher, Eraldo would take an interest in biochemical warfare. He created what he saw as prototypes for "weapons of the future," and used the surrounding countryside of his clinics as a laboratory. Excited at the concept of bioweapons, Eraldo covertly conducted biochemical field tests on refugees, leading to tens of thousands dying of diseases (anthrax, smallpox, bubonic, etcetera), or contracting mutations and infections; all for testing his research, and with complete disregard for the livelihood of anyone targeted for his examinations. This includes feeding poisoned candy to children, releasing plague-infested bugs in villages, and testing different diseases on different species (like a scale-reducing disease for Dragons and Blood Loss for Vampires, and examining how non-human diseases can affect actual humans).

Is he heinous by the standards of the story? Absolutely, because he is Eclipse's foremost in amoral pursuit of science and evolution, no matter how flawed the research or how twisted the method.

Any mitigating factors? He is pragmatic, but only in logistical senses - for example, he refrained from using anesthesia, because that would've affected the experiments. In another case, his conflict with Eighinn Stossuhl comes from their different tactics: Eraldo wanted to experiment on the supposed "source" that needed Aura to be created as a buffer, but Stossuhl remained resolute in his violent crusade against Aura Users, and set about causing as much havoc as possible; which Eraldo opposed since it interfered with his research.

Only when it concerns conducting the full research and examinations will he consider "alternate" methods, and even then, said alternate methods still result in disproportionate suffering that he completely disregards for the sake of his research.

Final Verdict? I say

edited 8th Oct '15 1:27:44 AM by Serocco

Concerning Reverse-Flash, the showrunner has said that "the Harrison Wells we’re going to meet is going to be a very different Harrison Wells than we worked with last year".