Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

Let's take these one by one:

• Lighty takes care of Goldfinger and Kurrgan.
• DeGroat, while by no means the WORST CM on the list, still has several (attempted) murders and beatings to his name.
• Ditto Fouchet, who has several murders to his name (his partner, who stole some money; a hooker; the attempted murder of the hooker's roommate; ordering the death of the madam, etc.

As for the Holy Ground rule, I looked it up; it's not a standard so much as that it would likely result in the death of the violator.

edited 18th Apr '15 9:10:13 AM by ACW

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And if I never hear the "but there's lot of complete monsters on the pages" thing ever again, it'll be too soon.

"No violence on Holy Ground". Fine I admit, I did miss this line. I often have troubles following every single line in the film. Okay, take it back what I said about the villains.

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@ emperors, I think you are forgetting near the end of the film, that scene where the Krugan gets into a car, runs over a couple of people and causes a lot of traffic accidents. He likely killed a few innocent civilians there and injured many more.

Really the Krugan has done enough to merit being a monster. There is a difference between being a Complete Monster and being Stupid Evil. A character does not have to evil 24/7 to be a monster. I think a monsterous character can get a cup coffee at a coffee shop, without murdering everyone there and still be a contender, maybe he just felt like having a quite moment, being evil all the time might be exhausting.

Also if the difference between a Complete Monster and a Generic Doomsday Villain is a personality, then we have factor in that different monsters will have different M.Os and different preferences, not every monster is going to go out and aim for a huge body count every time they leave the house, some might prefer cunning and patience, having a more long term plans that are vile but do not yield results right away.

Esther from Orphan is someone who relies on cunning and penitence to achieve her ends, she doesn't go out and murder a dozen people every night because that would not serve her interests and not fit her M.O, her willingness to rely on head games, cunning and penitence make her different then other monsters, but she is still a monster.

edited 18th Apr '15 11:59:33 AM by Overlord

That's not a single line, it's a recurring plot point in the films and a very important rule of the Game.

@ 38588: Yeah, the "No fighting on Holy Ground" thing has also been suggested by some as a possible standard for Kurgan. For the record, it's not. From the start it was more of... a guideline than something every immortal literally cannot do, and Kurgan just uses it to trash talk Connor without fear of immediately getting a sword to his face. Fans then flanderized it into an actual metaphysical impossibility and then got pissed off when subsequent immortal villains abused it even more than Kurgan did.

@ 38591: Exactly. Hell, there are even cases like Bill Williamson, who walks into a bingo hall in the middle of his shooting spree, eats a sandwich, and then leaves. The impression we get why he didn't hurt anyone at that exact moment is because he was simply amused that no one really noticed him.

You've got roaming bands of armed, aggressive, tyrannical plumbers coming to your door, saying "Use our service, or else!"

And as for why he didn't kill people in the church? That would, as has been said, probably be Stupid Evil.

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Ramirez stressed the Holy Ground rule was way more than a standard: "NONE of us will violate that rule."

HL the Series also provides us with a single recorded beheading on Holy Ground...in Pompei. Just before Mt. Vesuvius erupted. One can draw their own conclusion

One thing I do wonder: What about Kell? He violated the rule, and there was no Vesuvius.
P.S. Yes I'm aware I have a few writeups to do; I plan to take care of 'em tomorrow morning and submit Monday morning.

edited 18th Apr '15 12:10:37 PM by ACW

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Yes, many people watching the movie were wondering that, too.

Well the Guardian in Highlander the Source seemed to ignore that rule too (though its best to pretend Endgame and the Source never happened.) I wish they were more consistent with that rule.

I'll do the others tomorrow, but here are cleaned up Reunion entries (they're in the Sandbox):

• Reunion:
  • The main antagonist, an OC named Nathanael Butler, starts off just looking like a regular jerk, closing gyms and hitting on women. When Lt. Surge refuses to close his gym and starts a fight, Butler lets one of his pokemon drown to prove a point. He then tries to have Surge's trial rigged with Frollo's psychic powers, and then have him killed in his cell. When Surge is acquited, he tries to rape Misty. After that he goes on a rampage in the rocket base to obtain the ultimate weapon, Deoxys. He convinces Ka to have sex in exchange for Shi's life, only to have Machamp break his neck. Once he obtains Deoxys, he kills his superior Claude, and then rampages throughout the near town of Tohjo Falls hanging people. During the final battle, he tries to trap our heroes in Lotus Eater Machines.
  • Rocket Elite Frollo is a psychic who kills thousands of people and Pokemon and assimilates their souls into himself to increase his psychic powers. During the raid on the rocket base, he kills Elle by driving a spoon into her chest and Watson by smashing his head. He tries to use these powers to rig Surge's trial, and after this fails he tries to absorb the Elite Four.

Hell, I may just tweak all the Pokemon ones tomorrow. There aren't too many.

edited 18th Apr '15 12:51:14 PM by ACW

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Have you read Poke Wars. Cause it will take me awhile to do.

I just watched Banlieue13. Taha is on the list. Seeing the movie, he definitely counts, but there is another character from the same movie that I want to propose. It is a white supremacist government agent.

Who is he?

As I said, a government agent. He appears briefly in the end, and if you want to know more about the bomb that the heroes are trying to deactivate, read on Taha's entry. We later find out that he was actually trying to trick the heroes into activating a bomb so he could blow up the entire District 13. The main character states "He wants to kill anybody who does not have white skin and blue eyes!" By the end of the movie, the agent yells "It is not very democratic but it helps. It is not French citizens job to pay for those scumbags!"

Heinous by the standards of the story

I would say so. He might fail compared to Taha but I personally believe that Taha is a monster on a more personal level while the agent on a larger scale. Kind of like Voldemort and Fenrir Greyback in Harry Potter.

Redeeming traits

This is the only possible disqualifying factor. You might call him a Well-Intentioned Extremist who cares about his country, but it is clear that it is pure racism. He is more of a Knight Templar. Though, we do have to take into consideration that most District13 residents are shown to be violent criminals.

Verdict

I think he might count but there are factors to consider.

edited 18th Apr '15 6:20:53 PM by emperors

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Does he have a name? I'm always iffy on including unnamed characters, as it usually means they're very minor.

The pig of Hufflepuff pulsed like a large bullfrog. Dumbledore smiled at it, and placed his hand on its head: "You are Hagrid now."

Actually, he is a minister of defense and his name is Krueger.

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So why was Iago from Othello left off if everyone seemed to be in agreement that he should be there? I'm confused.

By the way, Leon Vorgitch from the Law & Order episode Deadlock was brutal and uncompromising, but his reason for escaping was to see his dying mother. I think that disqualifies him as murderous as he is, so I gotta vote .

Leland Barnes from the Law & Order episode Criminal Law though murders several people and his wife all in one place with no remorse or thought. Then to get out of prison when a hearing as to whether or not his sentence should continue is coming up, he shames his vulnerable son Harlan into seeking out and killing the witnesses and shows no guilt or regret when his son kills innocents who had no involvement in his case but just happened to be witnesses to the murders or shared the same name as one of the witnesses. He questions the only living witness in a harsh and threatening manner so as to get her to recant her statement on seeing him commit the killings and when his son is caught, Barnes throws him under the bus by saying how mentally disturbed he is and completely distances himself from those crimes. When Mc Coy tells him he's not giving up on making sure he doesn't escape, Barnes pretty much tells him that he should have been the one Harlan killed first. It's a testament to how bad he is in the fact that his other son Robert shot and killed him on the steps of the courthouse immediately after. So for him.

I vote for Ace Merrill from Stand By Me. He steals Gordie's ball cap given to him by his late brother and taunts him with it; when Chris insults him, he throws him to the ground and threatens to burn his eyelid with a cigarette; states his intention to kill either of his friends and fellow gangmembers for money; risks the lives of his supposed friends in order to win a drag race by hearing having a head-on-collison; plans to bring the body to the police just for the glory and when Chris insults him again, he pulls a knife with the intention of killing him this time and ignoring Chris' brother's own protests (who's also his supposed friend) in the process. He only backs off at the threat of his own life and even intends to never forget and to make them pay for their interference.

edited 19th Apr '15 11:06:58 AM by futuremoviewriter

What are you talking about? Iago is listed.

I'll give a tentative to Krueger. It's vile, doubtless, but especially in the face of the other villain, this seems more like a single crossing of the MEH than a true skip to Monsterdom. Still, if someone can give a convincing argument, count me in.

Before you ask, that kind of Monster only works in very, very certain instances (Tarkin, Piper, etc.); I for one still don't believe Steele to be a Monster.

On Ace Merill...Stephen King bullies are always a tricky case in whether or not they ought to qualify. However, I do recall Ace returning in the book of Needful Things playing a more villainous role. Does he do more to count there, or does Leland Gaunt overshadow him too much?

• Hmmm, we may indeed have to cut Vorgitch...
• I've not read Poke Wars; maybe I'll hold off on tweaking them for now.

edited 19th Apr '15 12:19:50 AM by ACW

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Where is Iago listed? I looked under Literature and he wasn't there.

Here, under the "Theatre" heading.

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• A Serbian Film: Vukmir is a psychotic, sexual sadistic Serbian mobster and a director of snuff films which usually involve necrophilia and pedophilia. He hires the retired porn star Miloš to partecipate in some of his movies, promising enough money for him and his family. In an especially terrifying scene he shows Miloš a movie called "Newborn Porn," where a woman gives birth to a newborn which is immediately raped by Vukmir’s top henchman Raza. When Miloš, horrified, tries to cut lose, Vukmir has him captured and drugged. He manipulates Miloš into beating and raping a woman before decapitating her. He then lets his gang sodomize Miloš. Under Vukmir’s orders, one of his men kills Miloš's co-star by suffocating her after forcing his penis down her throat. He then kidnaps Miloš' wife and child and drugs Miloš even more than before in order to make him (unknowingly rape his own son) while his partner in crime and Miloš's brother rapes his wife. Before dying Vukmir, proud to have corrupted a desperate man to do his biddings, happily compliments Miloš for his actions as truly worthy of film.
• Mass Effect Forum RPG: Tiraz Malkizan was, throughout his life, only ever interested in two things: Gaining money and power, and hurting people . Never a moral Turian to begin with, he committed his first murder at the age of 16 when he didn't want to share the loot of a robbery with his partner. Later on he decided that he could make far more money by becoming a Dirty Cop than with petty crime. For that end, he manipulated his two naive colleagues Beyo and Javed to use dirty methods (mostly blackmail and torture) to gather information faster and often framing innocent parties, all under the pretense of doing the work that others are afraid to do for the greater good. His most heinous acts during that period were the murder of an investigating co-worker and the brutal raping of Luceija Ascaiath, which he recorded for his own amusement. After being exposed and confronted by his colleagues, he grabbed off all the money they ever made and ran off to become a powerful crime lord, now fully embracing his savage nature with delight. Him raping and cannibalizing an Asari Justicar to death (after throwing her companion out of a window) and butchering his completely loyal assistant for saving him a few moments later than he ordered are just a few examples of why he is still considered the absolutely worst person this RPG has ever spawned, despite being dead for over 5 years now.
• Pokémon: The Mastermind of Mirage Pokémon: Dr. Yung, AKA the Mirage Master, was a sociopathic Mad Scientist who viewed real Pokemon as being imperfect. It was his disdain towards real Pokemon that inspired him to create Mirage Pokemon. His experiments were deemed too cruel by his peers ^note  He would forcibly scan a Pokemon's memory to create a new Pokemon. , and he was shut down. Vowing revenge, he dons the Mirage Master alter-ego after faking his own abduction, He kidnaps Profesor Oak, and tried to emotionally torture him into giving him his password to his PC database in the hopes of hacking into worldwide Pokemon centers. He also abuses, and eventually kills, his Mew Mirage (which he viewed as a failed experiment), and he forcibly scans Pikachu's memory, thus injuring him. After he had finally gotten Oak to crack, he tries to kill him with his Mewtwo Mirage because he was no longer of use to him. Yung later planned on deploying missiles so that he could have a larger field for his Mirages, and he fully intended on releasing Mirage Mewtwo's power unto the world. Lacking regard for natural and artificial life, Yung was only motivated by his own goals.
• Dragon Ball Xenoverse: The Demon God, Demigra, was imprisoned in a crack in time by his Arch-Enemy, the Supreme Kai of Time. To free himself, he sends out an image capable of acting on the physical plane to cause chaos and distort time. One of the timelines has him brainwashing Piccolo into trying to kill Goten and Trunks. Another has him trying to brainwash Beerus into destroying Earth. After his release, he plans to destroy the universe and reshape it so that everything revolves around him.
• Justice League Heroes: After receiving a telepathic message from a meteor, promising him great power and knowledge if he can release the power within the meteor, Brainiac launches a complex scheme to get the equipment he needs. He creates a series of disasters to keep the Justice League busy: He has his robot minions attack random citizens; helps Queen Bee transform people into bee creatures; he hires the Key and Killer Frost to set off several nuclear weapons; he frees the White Martians so they can attack Earth; and he frees Gorilla Grodd so he will use his Earthquake machine to destroy Gorilla City. Brainiac is willing to endanger millions of lives just as a distraction tactic, so the Justice League would too busy to stop his quest for power and knowledge.
• Animal Farm: In this 1954 Animated Adaptation of George Orwell’s 1945 novel, Napoleon was the leader of the pigs and the ruthless dictator of the titular farm. After the animals rebelled against Jones, Napoleon took several puppies under his wing, and made them into his personal attack dogs. When Snowball was planning on developing a windmill for the farm, Napoleon sent the dogs to assassinate him. He promptly took over after the deed was done, declared Snowball a traitor to the farm, and set up several trials for the animals in which he forced them into admitting (read lying) that they were working for Snowball, after which they were publicly executed. He ultimately crossed the line when he sent Boxer, who was most likely the most devoted member of the cause, to the slaughterhouse after he had injured himself working. The animals eventually couldn't differentiate between him and the humans towards the end of the cartoon.

edited 20th Apr '15 1:37:36 AM by ACW

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@ Scraggle, See, villains like Tarkin are actually a point for my inclusion of this character. They both committed a sing heinous act and can qualify (well, Tarkin does but I don't know about Krueger). Tarkin has a lot more screentime while Krueger only appears on TV in the beginning and in the end when he is exposed. So with his limited screentime, he gets enough characterization and commits one single heinous act.

I think that blowing up the entire population is that type of Moral Event Horizon that might get you on the list. Unless you are a Well-Intentioned Extremist or do not have enough characterization, you should be in. The only thing that makes me question Krueger's inclusion is because as I said, most District 13 residents are violent criminals and the District is run by Taha, the very villain on this list. Only Leito and his sister Lola are shown to be good guys. This could make Krueger a Well-Intentioned Extremist.

edited 19th Apr '15 4:08:40 AM by emperors

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