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Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

edited 15th Jan '13 1:45:24 PM by Fighteer

 3676 Dr Psyche, Sat, 6th Oct '12 7:41:45 PM from Hawaii Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
[up][up] Good post Ambar: I'm inclined to agree with your points.

edited 6th Oct '12 7:42:30 PM by DrPsyche

 3677 Dr Psyche, Sat, 6th Oct '12 8:21:31 PM from Hawaii Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
While i still think that Camp Lazlo example was the worst I'd encountered, I have found a bad example that shows what happens when people don't go for the worst of the worst, and list all the bad villains.

BIONICLE

  • Complete Monster: Par for the course with the villains. Teridax, all the Piraka except maybe Vezon (with special mention to Zatkan, Vezok, and dear god, Hakann) all the Barraki (especially Pridak), The Shadowed One and many of his Dark Hunters, Vultraz, and most Makuta except for Krika seem to make a career on unforgivable bastardry. The worst part? More than one along the ranks of the good guys. Tuyet, Botar, Miserix, and especially Tobduk have all shown themselves of very little redeeming quality, indeed.

The large collection of bionicles in my back Lanai means I got some knowledge on it, but due to the sheer amount of online serials and other All There in the Manual, Anyone who knows the series should correct me if I'm wrong.

Okay: Back Story, the ultimate plan of the villain is somewhat confusing, but here it is. Long ago, great Amoral beings created a universe, and designed Tren Krom to be it's protector, they decided to boot him out and imprison him, before replacing him with Mata Nui (in case Krom is ever brought up, I'll say no because he's basically an Eldrich Abomination). Mata-nui created the Makuta to help him run the Universe led by Miserix. However one of them, Mutran, met Tren Krom, who looked into Mutran's mind, when he did that, Mutran learned how to strike down Mata-Nui and take control of the Universe. He told Teridax (henceforth the Big Bad), who led a coup and dethroned Miserix and killed all of his followers. He then unleashed a complicated gambit to take control of the universe, first knocking the Great Spirit out. Eventually it's revealed that the universe that they live in is all contained within a Giant Robot Called Mata-Nui, and Mata-Nui himself was it's AI. Teridax takes over the robot and becomes a living God.

Okay, take a deep breath people, the continuity may give you a head-ache.

Teridax: Keep. He enslaved an entire city of Matoran (civilians) and imprisoned them in little spheres. They were free before he could brain wash them, but all their memories were destroyed (one was enslaved, and he was Mind Raped into believing he was in a world without hope and Heroes, only Teridax). He killed numerous Toa (heroes), and started a War with the Dark-Hunters, killing many of them, and his own Makuta Brothers/Servants. His very essance is used to enslave abunch of other Matoran and have them drain a volcano. The volcano erupts, and they just continue to work, setting up barriers, even as they're burnt to death, most of them die. When he takes over the world, he does things for the Evulz, like sending armies at the people killing/enslaving many of them. He has six of the heroes trapped in a fantasy where they think that they've won. He turns Miserix into a painting (dunno why). He traveled to a bunch of different dimensions to capture other Toa of light and brainwashes them to use as minions.

The Makuta: Definitely a case of Always Chaotic Evil

EDIT: Piraka: a group of Six rogue Dark Hunters (Zaktan, Vezok, Hakann, Avak, Reidek and Thok) who go to an island called Voya-Nui and pose as Toa. They proceed to enslave all the matoran with the Anti-dermis (really Teridax's essence, though only Zaktan seems to know that). When most of the Matoran die in the volcano, they complain that they'll have to do all the work now. All plan to betray each other. Eventually, they were turned into snakes.

Zaktan: recruited from the slave mines of an island by the Dark Hunter's leader. Tried to launch a coup, failed, and was turned into a swarm of bugs. He schemes to take the Mask of life (The Macguffin) for himself and hijack the plan. Cruel, cold and calculating. He was mutated into a snake, and forced to lead the heroes to find Teridax, Teridax killed him.

Hakann: Defiantly the most violent and cruel. Casually killed a bunch of animals (who have a good deal more sentience than most beasts) because they blocked his view, and is the cruelest to the slaves. He Steals the power of an Ally to make himself stronger.

Thok: Cold jerkass. Tried to rob a bunch of Dark Hunters and got press ganged into the organization. Worked with Hakann to steal the ally's power, and attempted to betray him, but was himself betrayed. He had the ability to make objects come to life, like making armor come alive, and squeeze and sqeeze until...pop.

Avak: Lot's of his antics are played for laughs, like putting Matoran into prisons (with his mind) because they talk to much. And this one time where he had his strength, hearing, and speed increased, making him fall over, run into a wall, and nearly knock him out with a splitting headache.

Reidek: Smarter than he looks, is able to shrug off every defeat with an adaptable physiology. Destroys the Matoran of Voya nui's historical documents. Also a big Jerkass.

Vezok: Rage problem. Flips out at many provocations.

Vezon: seventh member, A weapon was shot at Vezok, which split him into two beings. Vezon was the thing created. Vezon acted as a Dirty Coward, and tried to steal the mask, instead getting fused to a spider, and later dragon. After he was freed he became a Chaotic Neutral. Basically, being a Talkative Loon, most of his antics are played for laughs, more than Avak.

Yeah, None of the Piraka match to Teridax's heinousity.

The Worst Examples:

Botar: Is hands down the worst example. He's a member of the guys trying to stop The Makuta and Restore Mata-nui, they are a bunch of Knight Templar agents. Botar, despite his appearance, is a hero. He takes some of the worst people and puts them in an impenetrable prison. He aids Axonn (a hero) in putting his now evil friend (Brutaka) in prison. He supports the Order he belongs in, even accepting Brutaka back into their ranks when he has an epiphany. He's killed doing his job and protecting his allies. Maybe it's because he has a freaky head and everyone's afraid of him.

Miserix: All Makuta are subject to being selfish, Miserix is one of the few who never let his feelings rule his destiny. When Teridax launched his campaign to take over the world, Miserix calmly stood up and shot him, claiming that it's their duty to protect it. Miserix was quickly out-numbered when most of the Makuta turned to Teridax. He was stripped of rank, but Krika, out of mercy, left him on an island without killing him. decades, possibly centuries later, Brutaka puts together a sort of Suicide Squad to rescue him. He does kill one member of the team out of dull pettiness (he was a makuta), and is quite violent when on the good-guy's side. When He goes to stop Teridax, he encounters the heroes of the story and saves them from a trap, having them lead him to a room. He's almost killed, but returns later. While Miserix is a violent and unforgiving guy, he's no where near the evil of Teridax.

Tobduk: He's definitely a Sociopathic Hero. After the Makuta destroyed his village, he has committed numerous acts of sabatoge and murder against them. He killed two Makutas named Kojol and Tridax, as well as any Matoran (and other innocents, even his own allies) who knew the location of an island which was asked to keep secret by the Island's founder. He speaks to Mazeeka in Mazeeka's story, and implies that he's unhinged, wanting only to get back at the Makuta for wronging him. He's worse of a person than Miserix and Botar, but he fails the heinous standard.

This post is way to long, so I'll do the rest later.

edited 6th Oct '12 9:10:55 PM by DrPsyche

 3678 Jordan, Sat, 6th Oct '12 10:14:55 PM from Westeros
Azor Ahai
I guess I can agree about removing Tywin, but did want to add that it's kind of a pet peeve/berserk button whenever I read anyone saying Tysha wasn't raped- first, there's the idea of only acknowledging her gang rape after it is revealed she wasn't a prostitute- so I guess they think prostitutes can't be raped?

IMO, even when initially described during the time when Tyrion did think she was a prostitute, it seems to be pretty clearly described as a brutal gang rape wherein afterward, the rapists tossed money at the victim. I really don't know how anyone could read it any other way.

Also, on a related topic, while I do agree Tywin probably shouldn't count (as much as I hate when people give him leather pants), I can't think of any instances where Robb ordered his troops to commit atrocities in the way that Tywin regularly does. Robb's troops do rape and murder civilians, but apparently all soldiers do that. And IMO (could be misremembering), I believe Roose himself took on Hoat (supposedly on Robb's behalf). I don't think Robb had any involvement in hiring the guy.

Tl; dr, sorry for the ASOIF fan wank, but Ambar's post set off some of my berserk buttons regarding fan perceptions.

Edit- Also, I can see why Lorch should be cut. While what he did (violently stabbing a child to death) isn't really viewed in-series as ok to say the least, it is not uncommon for nobles to wipe out opposing/traitorous families. And Lorch is a lot less evil than his buddy Gregor.

Edit2- On the topic of that series, wondered others' thoughts on Qyburn. I actually think he does qualify. While he does look kindly and grandfatherly, he reads as pretty creepy rather than affably evil, and his generally cited redeeming quality (loyalty to Cersei) could likely be ascribed to the fact she allows him to torture and experiment on people to his heart's content.

edited 6th Oct '12 10:28:49 PM by Jordan

Hodor
[up]I said we don't know if she was raped. Not that she definitively wasn't. Given that we only have the scene from the perspective of a young teenager, we can't definitively say what happened. How many times have perceptions in this series turned out to be wrong? Secondly, as I said before, if it was a rape, that's nothing special in ASOIF. Heck, the fact that Tywin let her go and as far as we know, keep the money, is a vast improvement on the treatment we see most rape victims get. Rorge, the Mountain, and Hoat all do far worse. I'm sorry to say it, but that series as a whole really trivializes rape, and that's one of my issues with it.

When do we see Tywin actually order his troops to commit rape and pillage? He sends Gregor and Lorch out, knowing how they're going to act, sure. But since "all soldiers do that" we can level the same accusation at Robb, or any other general for that matter. They all know what their soldiers are liable to do, and we never see any of them punish their troops for how they act. About the only difference I can think of between Tywin and the rest is that he's a tad more self-aware, than Robb or Stanis.

Moving on, what, if anything, does Qyburn do onscreen? We know he's a vivisectionist, yes. Onscreen, however, all we see him do is heal Jaime, and makes reports to Cersei about the world and his work on Gregor. Does he ever commit a single atrocity where we can see it? For that matter, do we even see the aftermath of his actions, the way we do with the rest of the Brave Companions? I don't remember it ever happening.

I could support cutting Lorch. Does anybody, by the way, who knows the series think that Rorge should be on the page? He strikes me as a possible example, and he manages to be considerably worse even than the rest of the Brave Companions, especially once he sets off on his own.

 3680 Jordan, Sat, 6th Oct '12 11:20:03 PM from Westeros
Azor Ahai
I don't really think Qyburn's actions count as off-screen villainy. There's constantly horrible screams coming from his "work station", and he once casually comments that one of his torturees is no longer able to eat under he own volition.

He might be a case where we should wait on him, as it wouldn't surprise me if future novels went into more detail about what he's doing/what his experiments involve.

He does torture the Blue Bard on Cersei's orders, and it is pretty gruesome. I don't want to excuse Cersei herself, but at least she is somewhat sickened by what she sees him do, whereas Qyburn himself shows no remorse/guilt in the slightest.

More generally, Qyburn's evil is a case of Gory Discretion Shot so far, and past evil things done by say Gregor or Lorch aren't on-screen because they happened in the past- that doesn't make them a case of Off Screen Villainy, does it? I mean they are described in some detail.

edited 6th Oct '12 11:25:03 PM by Jordan

Hodor
[up]Qyburn's actions are not, however, described in detail. There's a lot of screaming going on, and since he is into vivisection, it probably is very bad, but we can't prove that as of yet. All we've got is guesswork. If in a later book we see him going Mengele on somebody, absolutely, we can consider him.

EDIT: The scene with the Blue Bard is bad, but even then, he's doing it on Cersei's orders, and if my memory serves, the guy survives it, largely intact.

edited 6th Oct '12 11:28:18 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar

 3682 Jordan, Sat, 6th Oct '12 11:34:25 PM from Westeros
Azor Ahai
Uh no, he is reported to have gone insane from torture, and not exactly in one piece ("on screen", Qyburn cuts off one of his nipples and gouges out one of his eyes and probably cut off some of his toes, and wasn't even finished with him yet).
Hodor
@Dr Psyche: I don't really know BIONICLE but based on what you say I agree that Teridax is the only one that fits the trope. The last three have good qualities and the others don't meet the heinous requirement.

@Jordan: Qyburn's tricky, because while he's clearly experimenting on/torturing people in the background of A Feast For Crows almost none of it is elaborated on. Unlike Gregor who has his crimes described in great detail, such as his and his soldiers' rape of an inn keeper's daughter, Qyburn's crimes are mostly Take Our Word for It You Do Not Want To Know. Right now, I think Qyburn doesn't count yet, but he's a likely candidate for the future. EDIT: Ah, forgot about the Blue Bard torture. That is bad... but I'm not sure if it compares to the tortures Ramsay performs on Theon and others.

@Ambar: Yeah I think Rorge counts. His first reaction to seeing Arya again, after she saved his life, was planning on raping her. Also, if I'm remembering correctly, as I said it's been awhile since I read A Feast For Crows, the aftermath of the Rape of the Saltpans, which he led, is seen and the attack is described by the survivors.

edited 6th Oct '12 11:45:15 PM by OccasionalExister

 3684 Jordan, Sat, 6th Oct '12 11:41:36 PM from Westeros
Azor Ahai
Something else, I'm not sure if this is the right way of looking at it, but although he acts under her orders/with her permission, I tend to think that Qyburn is worse than Cersei. Because while Cersei is cruel and delusional and pretty good at suppressing guilt, she seems to feel some guilt for her actions (not that it stops her from doing them), whereas Qyburn is sort of inhuman and tortures as casually and methodically as a normal person would brush their teeth.

Do agree that he should probably be kept off until more of his "experiments" are shown on screen.

Rorge should probably fit since even by Westerosi standards, he's really bad- a pedophilic serial rapist and mass murderer.

edited 6th Oct '12 11:42:37 PM by Jordan

Hodor
 3685 nrjxll, Sun, 7th Oct '12 1:03:24 AM Relationship Status: Not war
As a general note, I think it's worth reminding people that A Song of Ice and Fire has a lot of Deliberate Values Dissonance going on. When talking about "heinous by the standards of the story", we're generally not talking about the in-universe moral standards, for this or other series.

Regarding the specific examples under discussion, I was formerly in favor of including Tywin, but after rereading the series, I've come around to feeling that his family loyalty makes him another 99% Monster.

Qyburn, on the other hand, really seems to be pushing the limits of Offscreen Villainy, and I'm more inclined than not to include him.

 3686 Nohbody, Sun, 7th Oct '12 6:14:00 AM from Somewhere in Dixie Relationship Status: Mu
Just zis guy
An entry added to YMMV.Dredd, by igordebraga: "Ma-Ma, who is capable of destroying a floor filled with Innocent Bystanders with Gatling guns just to get the Judges."

The movie doesn't make even the slightest attempt to justify the act other than defending territory as part of a campaign to expand her drug empire to all of Mega-City One, but I'm not sure it really qualifies for CM, particularly in regards to the "truly heinous by the standards of the story" part.

Am I misunderstanding Complete Monster, or is the entry misuse of the trope?
 3687 Shaoken, Sun, 7th Oct '12 6:24:49 AM Relationship Status: Dating Catwoman
[up]Misuse. Killing a floor full of civillians in that universe is run of the mill, and it's also very Genre Savvy considering this is Dredd we're talking about.

 3688 Nohbody, Sun, 7th Oct '12 10:19:05 AM from Somewhere in Dixie Relationship Status: Mu
Just zis guy
That's about what I thought. The guns, gouging out the tech's eyes, skinning the captured competing druggies and tossing them from umpteen dozen floors up, none of that strikes me as particularly beyond the pale for the Dredd universe.
 3689 Dr Psyche, Sun, 7th Oct '12 10:59:56 AM from Hawaii Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Okay, I deleted Zemo, Grim Reaper, and General Ross from the Avenger's YMMV page. Skryll!Captain America was already deleted.

Thanks for the contributions.

EDIT: I looked on the Disney Complete Monster Page and Saw that Anton Sevarius was cut. While, yes, I do believe that his entry does not do him justice (and the reason for him getting cut is sound), I think he counts.

While, yes, he did make a pathogen that had the possibility to kill all life on earth, but he didn't know what it would be used for. He has done a bunch of other stuff besides that.

He captured several homeless people off of the street to do experiments on them, turning them into mutants, including Xanatos's Pilot (though that was all on orders from Xanatos). When he went to Scotland, he captured and tortured the lochness monster, then when his sub went down, he abandoned the crew to drown. Finally, in the comic continuation (which, by the way is canon), at New Years, he goes into the sewer to perform more experiments on the Homeless (including at least two children), when he is discovered, he reveals that he plans to release the mutagen onto the streets when the people have amassed, and mutate them all into horrible creations in a combination of Money, science, and because he would find it amusing. When he gets away, one of the Homeless women he mutated commits suicide.

However, He does get one Pet the Dog moment where he created, not mutated someone into, a monster, and grieves when it has died. However that episode is not considered canon (among other things, Thailog, another CM, gets a Pet the Dog moment, which was even more uncharacteristic, and all the clones died), and Anton doesn't normally show any affection to his creations, thinking of them as just experiments.

edited 7th Oct '12 11:20:38 AM by DrPsyche

South Park YMMV:

  • Saddam Hussein, a Manipulative Bastard with the same apocalyptic goals as Satan but none of his sympathetic motives.

Future appearances tone him down significantly, and he's mostly played for laughs. Also he didn't do anything truly despicable in the movie. He's just a Generic Doomsday Villain Smug Snake at worst.

  • In the TV series, Kyle's mom is a Jerkass at worst, but almost becomes an all-out Complete Monster in The Movie until her Heel Face Turn.

This is Complete Monster, not Almost Complete Monster

Power Rangers:

  • Lord Zedd, before his Villain Decay, qualifies. When he was first introduced, he was portrayed and presented as an incredibly evil villain, who was far scarier and more frightening than Rita, and was know as Emperor of Evil and caused chaos and suffering throughout the galaxy and used Serpenterra, a powerful and gigantic Zord that can destroy planets, to accomplish his evil deeds. He showed his cruelty when he imprisoned Rita Repulsa in the dumpster, and, unlike villains before him, he wasn't comical. However, since he was so evil, even for Power Rangers (at that time), he was toned down by Moral Guardians and married Rita and became more of a comical jerk than Evil Overlord.
    • That's a competent comical jerk to you, mister!

If future canon appearances tone him down, than he's not a CM. Yes he appears as a toned down but still purely evil version of Radiguet at first but he STILL gets toned down even further from there anyways.

Queen Bansheera and Master Org can stay, but all need to be rewritten due to too much emphasis placed on their actions.

Power Rangers RPM:

  • From the same series we had Alphabet Soup. While we saw little of them, they definitely qualify. They kept super intelligent people imprisoned for their entire lives under the belief they've got some horrible illness that'll kill them if they step foot outside. Plus, they allowed Venjix to escape by not letting Dr. K install the firewall to stop the virus from spreading. And they even tried to assassinate Dr. K to cover up Venjix's origins. What makes them worse is the fact that, unlike other Complete Monsters here, they are not demons, computer programs, or galactic creatures, but regular humans who are government agents. The scariest thing about them is that they kidnap people who are too smart. They are not as evil as Venjix, but still qualify for their evil actions.

They're a secret government agency, and a group by defualt. This entry can also cause Flame Bait due to the possible existence of similar CIA experiments in Real Life(MK-Ultra) depending on how you view it. This violates the no group rule and the implications about government operations this entry raises arguably raises a lot of controversy.

Also the Venjix article is poorly written with usage of Godwin's Law at one point.

Power Rangers Samurai:

  • Doubletone, Monster of the Week from episode "Deal With a Nightlok", is seen as this by Kevin and Mia because he tricked Ryan into giving up baseball by lying that if he did so, his father would return from the army. He seemed to enjoy Ryan's suffering

This was dark for PR standards, but had nothing in comparison to Serrator and Xanadred, fails heinousness standard.

  • The entirety of Nighloks, with the exception of Dayu and Deker, are seen as this by Power Rangers. Considering their entire goal is to flood the world by causing as much pain and misery as they possibly can, it's hard to blame the Rangers for feeling this way.

Again......NO GROUPS

From Sailor Moon:

  • Rubeus, high-class member of the Black Moon clan, was REAL bad as well, in the anime. His treatment of his underlings is completely unforgivable (especially what he does to Cooan and Petz, by manipulating the first girl's love for him to horrible extents and brainwashing her eldest sister via With Great Power Comes Great Insanity). And he's also very irritatingly smug and self-absorbed. So, when Esmeraude told him "You Have Outlived Your Usefulness, " the fandom CHEERED.

If this entry is rewritten, it can stay, I have never watched this series and don't want to, but it feels like he comes off like an unlikable jerk than a CM. Also there's a bit of gravedancing at the end that makes it clear it was written by a hater. Also his heinousness has to be compared to this........

  • Wiseman/Death Phantom, the Big Bad and Eldritch Abomination of the R season of Sailor Moon, is definitely this. He corrupted and manipulated the rebellious Black Moon Clan of Nemesis into become villains and used them to turn the peaceful, utopian Earth of the future into a barren, desolate wasteland, Mind Raped a vulnerable little girl into becoming his servant and tried to have her kill her future parents and friends, turned one of his pawns into a monster and knowingly sent her to her death, sadistically blasted to death another minion in front of that minion's older brother for having outlived his usefulness and trying to screw up his master plan, and planned on destroying the universe for the sheer hell of it.

So this has to be rewritten to show why it is bad as the Wiseman entry instead of just being a unlikable Jerk Ass and a ultra Smug Snake.

  • Chaos is evil incarnate and the manifestation- and the cause - of all of the sadness, cruelty, and evilness in the galaxy. It revealed in Stars that Chaos is responsible for all of the suffering in the galaxy and all of the Big Bads Sailor Moon has faced (Queen Metalia, Death Phantom, Pharaoh 90, and Queen Nehelenia) are all incarnations of Chaos. Existing solely to cause misery throughout the galaxy, Chaos is definitely probably the biggest monster in the whole series.

This seems to be on here solely because it's a "dark force" needs expansion as we've removed many villains that were here just because they were the "Ultimate Evil" in their universes.

edited 7th Oct '12 12:30:56 PM by xie323

 
 3691 Dr Psyche, Sun, 7th Oct '12 1:07:17 PM from Hawaii Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
[up] Righty-Ho

Saddam: Played for laughs

Kyle's mom, even if she was A CM, it would only be in a movie, and she did pull a Heel-Face Turn. So, no

Lord Zedd: Initially he was bad (haven't seen him), he devolved into ineffective and failed the heinous standard.

Are you saying Wiseman should stay, you seem to be. I should also add: That in the future, the world has become peaceful, and in the manga it was Death Phantom, who reintroduced murder and evil as a concept.

Rubeus: Hard to say if he counts. His lack of empathy and sadism are pretty big for a miniboss (many of whom have good qualities). Yes, he did manipulate and almost kill Koan, and he supplanted power into Petz's staff to make her crazy. In addition, he captured most of the heroes, and kept spamming Sailor Moon with a gravity attack to kill her. He did this when she had a view of her friends being captured, so he could see her run ineffectively at them, and loose hope as she was crushed. Also ZOMG ALLCAPS NO, yeah, whatever the fandom thinks is irrelevant.

Chaos: That really depends, because he takes on several forms which are considered seperate entities. Metalia and Pharaoh 90 are eldrich abominations. Nehelenia is Sailor Moon's dark mirror counter part (In the Manga, not the anime). And Galaxia willingly accepted Chaos to rule the Galaxy. One can read Death Phantom's entry for themselves to know why he counts. Now, in the Manga, aside from WMG's, he only really appears in the final season, corrupting Galaxia and turning her idea of peace, to conquest and subjugation. This means he warped her ideal into being a Well-Intentioned Extremist, while it sought to kill/destroy. Honestly, I don't know if it's made of Evil, or made of chaos, but often manifests as evil.

Nighloks: yeah, no groups.

edited 7th Oct '12 2:30:05 PM by DrPsyche

 3692 Mag Bas, Sun, 7th Oct '12 1:43:14 PM from In my house
Out of note, Ghetsis was put again in YMMV.Pokemon Black And White

 3693 Jordan, Sun, 7th Oct '12 1:45:30 PM from Westeros
Azor Ahai
RE the Gargoyles examples, have some concerns about issues of canon- could you explain what counts as canon and what doesn't? IIRC, there was a successor series that was bad and rejected by both fans and Greg Wiseman, but isn't it technically still canon/in continuity?
Hodor
 3694 Septimus Heap, Sun, 7th Oct '12 2:09:52 PM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Puʻu ʻŌʻō
[up][up]He was also potholed to Complete Monster all the time. Took it out.

 3695 Dr Psyche, Sun, 7th Oct '12 2:26:46 PM from Hawaii Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
[up][up] Gargoyles had two main seasons considered Canon. the third Season was made without Greg Weisman, the creator, and quite a few of his creative decisions were ignored. Weisman himself continued the series, when Disney licensed their property to Slave Labor Graphics. Weisman wrote the comic issues which ignored the third season, and continued the story. Weisman has declared the third season as non-canon.

Finally, it should be noted that the first episode of Season 3 Weisman had wrote, and, to avoid confusion, he adapted it into the comics (issues 1-2), so the story is still canon.

Disney owns Gargoyles, and they licensed it for the Comics sequel, so I believe that it's canon.

edited 7th Oct '12 2:27:38 PM by DrPsyche

Just looking through the videogames section I found some examples that violate the rule about groups.

From the Mario games there's the Shroobs.

From the Dragon Quest games there's the entire Gittish Empire.

From the Mass Effect games there's the Teltin scientists.

And from the Main Page there's every example given for SWAT 4.

Also, I don't think that B.B. Hood from Darkstalkers qualifies. She's creepy and kills demons. That's about it.

The video games section is looking better and better, though.

 3697 Earl of Sandvich, Sun, 7th Oct '12 5:14:19 PM from the Palouse Relationship Status: Gonna take a lot to drag me away from you
[up] Yeah, I do believe that only two examples from the Mario page is worth keeping based upon discussion (thus we can't keep the subpage), and the sandbox did account for a lot of what you brought up (including the removal of B. B. Hood). I do agree with removing the groups as you said.

edited 7th Oct '12 5:17:50 PM by EarlOfSandvich

Status of possible Fallout RP idea: Thinking of and open to new ideas.
I'd like to contest taking Ghetsis from Pokemon off of the Complete Monster list. I've checked these things, he still counts as a Complete Monster even with these new rules or standards. You guys just didn't want to have bile flung at them. Really?

As if trying to murder people, manipulating people and just downright being a horrible person didn't mean they were a horrible person. So I'm sorry I'm the only one who doesn't seem to be willing to let this guy off the hook. Let's not even go into what he was up to in the sequel.

 3699 Ms CC 93, Sun, 7th Oct '12 6:32:47 PM from In your dreams <3 Relationship Status: Singularity
Welcome to Me
Edit - Cut

edited 7th Oct '12 6:47:21 PM by MsCC93

 3700 Jordan, Sun, 7th Oct '12 6:45:02 PM from Westeros
Azor Ahai
Wow, you really don't get how this trope works at all... Intersting to me how all of the bad complete monster examples seem to have that same hyperbolic tone.

He's very much played for laughs and his plan is motivated for somewhat well-intentioned reasons, seeing as Springfield was horribly polluted and the government didn't want it to spread.

And the killing millions of people part is sort of a No Endor Holocaust example, as the film doesn't really give a lot of focus to the horrible implications that the plan would have in reality (i.e. it doesn't play it seriously in the slightest), nor for that matter is the original doming presented as something that would kill/killed anyone.

Besides, I doubt millions of people live in Springfield anyway.

edited 7th Oct '12 6:46:00 PM by Jordan

Hodor
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