Ok it was mentioned there is not a thread for Law Enforcement Officers (LEO for short)and other similar jobs for discussion.
This is for discussing the actual jobs, ranks, training, culture, relations to military bodies that exist, and any other variety of topics that can arise pertaining to the World of Policing.
Reminds me of an incident a few years back where a couple of teens stole a car, got into a police chase somehow, and somehow got the idea to run the gate at Luke AFB. Security Forces opened fire on the car, car crashed, one of the teens died. It was in the news for maybe a week and then just kind of quietly faded away into the backgroud noise.
By the sounds of it, they just took the wrong exit, but there was really no way for the cops at the gate to know that. Ever since someone set off a truck bomb and blew up an Air Force barracks in the 90s, Security Forces tends to be a bit twitchy about that sort of thing.
Their twitchyness has really given the police force at large a bad reputation for being little more than thugs with a badge who shoot first and ask questions later, even though, as you said, there's precedent for them being twitchy and cautious.
Well, there's cops, then there's Military Police. When discussing military installations, assume that any "Cops" mentioned are in fact uniformed soldiers standing guard or patrolling the installation (though they do a lot of regular cop stuff on base when not doing the other stuff). Somewhat different mentalities and doctrine at work since civilian cops are Police first, and Military Police are soldiers first. Nobody really gets too concerned if the Military Police are "militarized", because they're already military.
edited 26th Mar '14 4:15:06 PM by AFP
That plus, the criminals that Military Police go after? They have military training and access to weapons.
Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.Or, even worse, they're spouses and kids of military personnel (for those, it's mostly just petty theft or speeding that ever comes up, I'm told).
But yeah, in the law enforcement sense, military police mostly deal with military personnel from their own base, kind of like a really militant Internal Affairs section in a police department. In the military sense, they protect the base and it's personnel from enemy attack (car and truck bombs being in vogue over the last few decades, naturally). Hence the very justified twitchiness at the gate.
Cross posting to the US Politics thread and the Race thread:
If the U.S. Legalized Weed, What Would Happen to Everyone in Jail For Marijuana Crimes?
According to Amanda Solter, project director of Human Rights and Criminal Sentencing Reform Project for the University of San Francisco School of Law, "The only other countries that do this are places like Myanmar, Oman, Pakistan, South Sudan, and a handful of countries in the Caribbean. Even Russia provides this right."
For many, there could be workarounds. Various state legal systems have mechanisms for retroactive ameliorative relief that could be ordered by the courts. And it's not inconcievable that there would be a court decision opening the door for individual appeals or a mass presidential pardon (or gubernatorial ones, for that matter).
Of course it is nothing. Their actions were crimes at the time of conviction. Anyone who was hoping of the otherwise has a massive misunderstanding of how the law works.
edited 26th Mar '14 4:52:03 PM by joeyjojo
hashtagsarestupidWell, the question is whether that is how the law should work. Then again, that's pretty much how laws evolve over time, as the viewpoints and needs of the lawmakers (and hopefully, the citizens they represent) change.
For both the knife and the teen running at the cops with a vehicle I can't really blame the cops overly much. There may have been a better way to handle those possibly but in both cases the people getting shot had a definite hand in their own fates.
The cops with the guy with the knife, at first the AR-15 seems a bit much. But then again they are in wide open outdoor setting meaning hand guns which max out at effective ranges of 75yds on average could quickly and easily be rendered in effective. So the AR-15 isn't a big deal for that situation. It looks like maybe a half dozen officers but not an entire SWAT team or large number of officers. The Amount of force seems a bit much but again its not like calling out a SWAT team to deal with the guy.
If they have one guy with a body cam of some sort I would like to see if there were any others. Multiple cameras offer multiple view and makes it easier to see what was going on.
The teen going at cops outside cruisers with a car is unfortunate but that's like waving a knife or pointing a gun at a cop. You don't do it because it gets you shot. From the sounds of it the kid got lucky and survived. Even if the kid mistakenly stepped on the gas or turned in the wrong way while gunning the car the cops see a car coming at them with someone they have been chasing behind the wheel coming at them with a car. That isn't militant police behavior it sounds like they were trying to corral the kid and get him to stop but he did something stupid and got shot.
AFP there was a sort of similar incident with Offut.Though in this case they didn't immediately engage until he tried to charge another gate. They locked down all the gates and had him temporarily stopped at a gate. He was asked to surrender but started ramming the gate that is when they shot him. The guy who shot him was an ex-cop who was now working as a Federal Security Officer and not an MP though. Offut has had Fed Security at the gates for a while now. They did that I think some time in 03 I think? Again though they are not regular police and are guarding secure facilities.
Who watches the watchmen?They would have grounds for appeals for clemency so long as weed was the only charge they had.
Though anyone with dealing, assault, or whatever in addition to a weed charge would still have to serve out.
"Psssh. Even if you could catch a miracle on a picture any person would probably delete it to make space for more porn." - AszurIIRC, with the Luke AFB thing, the kids made it through the gate before the guards could stop them, but another cop was in the street and opened fire when the car was looking to run him down. Reading between the lines, I'd guess he ran out into the street to try and get the car to stop (or he just picked one hell of a time to use a crosswalk going somewhere else).
Really? If that's true, they've broken the law fairly consistently until now. : /
Unless a minor is being charged as an adult, they aren't supposed to release any information about it. If the victim of a crime is a minor, there are supposed to have even more protections.
Now states have made certain laws to shimmy around this by changing age restricts like making 16 an adult in some cases, so your milage may vary. But yeah, you're not supposed to talk about the kids.
"Psssh. Even if you could catch a miracle on a picture any person would probably delete it to make space for more porn." - AszurI asked in the Writer's Block forum but I think it is valid:
In the "The Departed" there was a quote from one of the police chief's where he says, "We deal in deception here but what we don't deal is self-deception." This kind of bothers me, I know in their line of work deception and half truths is a necessity but is self deception that bad of thing?
"I am going down a DOWNWARD SPIRAL!!"Not entirely sure on the context of that comment. I have seen the movie but I don't recall the scene.
I think Nebraska is one of those states that has a Shimmy around the minor rules.
edited 26th Mar '14 10:26:48 PM by TuefelHundenIV
Who watches the watchmen?Well, if you're supposed to find the truth (as part of their job is investigating things), it wouldn't do for them to deceive themselves into missing some important element of their investigation.
Cops are also allowed many deceptive tools to find the truth.
Undercover rules vary by state, need, and federal interventions. But across jurisdictions any cop can say that they have witnesses, that someone is rolling on that perp, they can say they have anything but they can't promise a deal.
In academy we were taught how you can get a pedophile (or most any criminal) to confess and open up by telling them you understand how they feel, the kid is attractive, etc. It may turn your stomach but my father got a man to tell how many children he hurt that way. The detective teaching the course got a guy to confess where he stashed a body that way.
Now if the feds are in on the case too the rules are different and you can only know on a case by case basis what those rules are. ICE can do more without informing local police (in general) than most agencies. FBI likes to hand pick local guys to do their grunt work (again, in general).
"Psssh. Even if you could catch a miracle on a picture any person would probably delete it to make space for more porn." - AszurThe Economist has got an article on American Police.
Keep Rolling OnSo there is some Merit to the FBI being dicks to the locals you see in media.
Who watches the watchmen?I figured it would fit most here.
Eating a Vanilluxe will give you frostbite.Interesting study. Wonder what other studies they will do next.
Who watches the watchmen?You mean Reefer Madness wasn't an accurate documentary after all?
Lol. That B-Movie is hilarious. Granted it was meant as a scare em straight movie still funny to watch.
Who watches the watchmen?
If it is a minor the cops can't say anything. Its illegal.
"Psssh. Even if you could catch a miracle on a picture any person would probably delete it to make space for more porn." - Aszur