Rational Twilight: Luminosity

Female half-vampires do not lactate.

*frown* They seem to have most other bodily functions. Do they menstruate?

Also, excellent chapter, enjoyed it quite a lot. Goodbye, Chelsea.

Also, Twitter! Brilliant.

Impressive and intense chapter, I was worried that being outside the fight would mean that "Coppertop" wouldn't get any excitement.

Also, Chelsea is burning.

\o/ yay \o/

hey... how many chapter left? I mean, the way things are wrapping up, it could be 3 or even less so.

They do not.

I expect Radiance to be over in the next week or two.

=O

Also, why don't they menstruate? How the hell does that works for they getting pregnant? are they always fertile?

No Periods, Period?

Can hybrids have children with each other? And can they live forever like vampires? What about quarter vampires? Eigth vampires? Sixteenth vampires?

Basically, can a plot be built for humanity to progressively be genetically vampirized to the point everyone can be inmortal after a few generations but without actually turning people? Vampires are very food-intensive, a humanity of full vampires just isn't sustainable, even with modern farming.

edited 17th Feb '11 3:15:34 AM by Ardiente

I was thinking a much smaller scale of this, under the helm of QUEEN BELLA OF THE MOST NOBLE AND ANCIENT HOUSE OF CULLEN, essencially, the vampires would become/create something similar to a nation, Bella would provide means to the creation of Half-Vampires, with the know possibility that it would eventually create families with many generations coexisting at same time (usually with a vampire ancestor/leader)

EDIT: And I am still thinking about QUEEN BELLA OF THE MOST NOBLE AND ANCIENT HOUSE OF CULLEN, but I think it is better to wait for the end of the story and see if it is possible from there.

also

Addy is going to make a offer that Bella can't refuse

edited 17th Feb '11 3:37:04 AM by Bluelantern2814

So... Dance In The Vampire Bund meets Vampire The Requiem?

Y'know what, I can't help but sympathize with Bella here. Alicorn, I've got one question: why can't people restart their relationships from scratch? I mean I am fairly certain that if, say, I got amnesiac or something and people claimed to be my parents and did all the affective stuff I'd play right in and make myself comfortable. I also think I'd have no trouble getting used to a foster parent were mine to die or remarry or something. That Elspeth not only doesn't love her mother anymore but even seems reluctant to reestablish that relationship given the opportunity sounds surprisingly callous, coming from such an emotional child. Plus, she has her own memories of her mother, and I don't see how she can't use them to restore a sense of gratefulness and affection and cordiality: even if someone isn't "special" to you anymore, exchanged favours, interactions, conversations... they have a value in and of themselves. Given the quality of vampire and half-vampire recall, I think it would be easy to reexperience the entire biography. The new relationship spun from that wouldn't be laden with the prejudice of "they are my parents, hence I must love them", for example, but the care they gave one and all the history should amount to something.

Or is there some fundamental misunderstanding I am making about Chelsea's power?

So... Dance In The Vampire Bund meets Vampire The Requiem?

I never actually read Dance In The Vampire Bund, but yes those are exactly my two inspirations, I even considered call it The World of Twilight

 ^{click here to see long post that is long and a post}

^{Y'know what, I can't help but sympathize with Bella here. Alicorn, I've got one question: why can't people restart their relationships from scratch? I mean I am fairly certain that if, say, I got amnesiac or something and people claimed to be my parents and did all the affective stuff I'd play right in and make myself comfortable. I also think I'd have no trouble getting used to a foster parent were mine to die or remarry or something. That Elspeth not only doesn't love her mother anymore but even seems reluctant to reestablish that relationship given the opportunity sounds surprisingly callous, coming from such an emotional child. Plus, she has her own memories of her mother, and I don't see how she can't use them to restore a sense of gratefulness and affection and cordiality: even if someone isn't "special" to you anymore, exchanged favours, interactions, conversations... they have a value in and of themselves. Given the quality of vampire and half-vampire recall, I think it would be easy to reexperience the entire biography. The new relationship spun from that wouldn't be laden with the prejudice of "they are my parents, hence I must love them", for example, but the care they gave one and all the history should amount to something}

.

Or is there some fundamental misunderstanding I am making about Chelsea's power?

Well, semi-quoting Elspeth, everything new she would develop would be exactly that: new. She can look back and objectively analize her memories, feeling admiration and gratefullness, but whatever she felt it isn't what she felt before even if it is similar or even better relationship that before, it is a new relationship.

Taking this for a another angle, she still has her memories about all the kinds things that her mother did to her, but it isn't different than having her memories of (lets say) the mother of one of Aro's victims.

edited 17th Feb '11 4:12:42 AM by Bluelantern2814

So, given all this, why doesn't she seem to care for her mother at all? Perhaps she was too smothering and overprotective?

caring about her mother is exactly what Chelsea "sniped", she doesn't care about loving her mother, as you would care to love a random stranger in the street. Again, I know she has all the memories that objectively let her now that she used to love and care greatly about her mom, but now she is... indiferent about those memories.

Does birth is hard on a Half-vampire mom? In the "World of Twilight" idea it would probably a way to make a ton of cash for them.

edited 17th Feb '11 5:07:15 AM by Bluelantern2814

General populace of reading tropers: Would "Elspeth, run!" be a Call-Back, a Meaningful Echo, or neither here nor there? I feel like it's a trope...

EDIT: It hasn't come up much in Luminosity-'verse I think, but I recall baby Elspeth in the books really preferring blood, even after she got on solids, but definitely up to that point. Might just be that blood takes the place of milk.

...Huh. Can vampires drink half/quarter/you see where this is going-vampire blood?

edited 17th Feb '11 6:44:35 AM by RedWren

I haven't given immense thought to how half-vampires get pregnant, but if they were conventionally menstruating then that would be associated with, say, a finite egg supply, which I don't think works well with the eternally young thing. So, they can get pregnant whenever and as long as they live.

Yes, there could be second-generation half-vampires and they would be half-vampires. Quarter vampires like Allirea's kids get a bit older before they stop growing, and grow a little slower, but still won't die of old age. Two quarter-vampires could have quarter-vampire kids. I haven't worked out what fraction of vampire ancestry one needs to avoid dying of old age, but one does become less sturdy and invulnerable to disease etcetera as one has more human parents, not to mention with progressively worse memory and whatnot. Progressively rendering everybody a half-vampire or quarter-vampire would require initially turning plenty of human women (or sacrificing their lives to the project) to create a breeding pool that doesn't consist entirely of Elspeth, Cody, and four half-siblings, and those women would probably want any human mates they found turned too, but it is overall a possibility.

That Elspeth still has all her memories of her mother and other family members is significant, but Chelsea had access to her for a long time. Whenever the relationships grew back, Chelsea would just cut them off again. After a while, such things stop growing back. The memories do still exist, but they're *depersonalized* to Elspeth - yes, she knows that Bella is the person who she used to call Mama who looked after her all those years and was a satisfactory parent, but this *emotionally* just feels like knowing that Bella is generically a reliable and satisfactory parent. You know, to somebody. She'd be a good mom to another kid if Maggie and Gianna hadn't destroyed the other embryos and they unfroze one. This just doesn't feel *relevant* to Elspeth anymore. If Elspeth were a little younger in terms of brain development, she would have more readily latched back on to any mother figure that presented herself, including Bella, but she fell into Chelsea's sphere of influence when she was just adolsecently-disgruntled enough to lack that easy route back.

A vampire could drink quarter-vampire blood and find it nourishing, but no greater fraction of vampire ancestry yields a nutritious blood product.

edited 17th Feb '11 7:07:05 AM by Alicorn

I haven't given immense thought to how half-vampires get pregnant, but if they were conventionally menstruating then that would be associated with, say, a finite egg supply, which I don't think works well with the eternally young thing. So, they can get pregnant whenever and as long as they live.

Oh. Din't thought about that, fair enough. I wouldn't think that "half-vampire menopausa" would be that terrible, in fact, it would even be a good source of drama.

Progressively rendering everybody a half-vampire or quarter-vampire would require initially turning plenty of human women (or sacrificing their lives to the project) to create a breeding pool that doesn't consist entirely of Elspeth, Cody, and four half-siblings, and those women would probably want any human mates they found turned too, but it is overall a possibility.

Exactly what I was thinking, well, minus sacrificing the lives of said women, I don'think that QUEEN BELLA OF THE MOST NOBLE AND ANCIENT HOUSE OF CULLEN would accept that (I could see other vampires trying to do such thing...)

I actually have gave some though about that, but din't writte it down. I can picture the facilities, a vampire town near the north pole, the place would look clean and modern, like something out of Heroes, rather something out of Dracula. They would pay a high ammount of money to human women that are willing to be surrogates to half-vampires (plus free services: like new I Ds and freezing eggs), how those women are chosen is a bit tricky as they are probably would be highly demanded, but I think they would mostly fall in the categories: 1) mates for already turned vampires [less likely of the bunch]; 2) Witches willing to become vampires themselves; 3)living family and friends of already turned vampires, this include people like Renée or Molly; 4) Women chosen by a combination of Alice and Edward powers who would turn out as controlled vampires or develop usefull powers after turning, even "better" if they have some illness that is going to kill them, but not preventing them from bear children.

Elspeth would be important in the turning process, that would be timed so she can use her "blank sending" to easy the pain without falling asleep.

Y'know, some people would die to give their offspring inmortality.

So you're saying she's not personally grateful anymore. I can't possibly express in words how much that sucks. However, the "Truth" power... it can't be used only for developing neutral or respectful attitudes. The truth is emotionally compelling in and of itself. I don't know how to express this, but I still feel like it's just a matter of angle or something before she finds a way to deprogram chelsea's negative work.

But wait! Maybe Chelsea can spin yarns from what already is there, bolster what seeds there are already between Eslpeth and Bella, if Bella can lower her inner shield, for which getting Elspeth back would be a great motivation, and perhaps Adelaide wants to see that development! And I don't know if Chelsea is static, but perhaps she never tried to learn how to raise back dead threads: perhaps it is possible, with time and effort!

Ardiente, we have had this discussion few pages ago, the *snip* part of Chelsea power isn't a lie or a ilusion, it is a amputation, she simple erases the relationship, and that is real and truthful, because the relationship is not there anymore.

Y'know, some people would die to give their offspring inmortality.

I don't get what this suppose to mean. In Sue's case, she was already pregnant before finding out that it was even possible, but in other more planed instances... seems a bit too much. Specially with the possibility of turning

edited 17th Feb '11 9:37:02 AM by Bluelantern2814

If turning means you have to eat the equivalent of a killer whale every week in order to survive, I think you'd agree with me this a rather untenable option.

Yeah, I seem to be also unable to understand precisely why it doesn't work like that. I've decided to just go with it.

Actually, that amputation metaphor suddenly makes it a lot more understandable.

edited 17th Feb '11 9:44:27 AM by SammiJ

Alicorn is a Distaff Counterpart to Joss Whedon.

If turning means you have to eat the equivalent of a killer whale every week in order to survive, I think you'd agree with me this a rather untenable option.

if turning also means "my child won't grow up as a orphan", like I said, I can understand people that do what Sue did, keep a acidental pregnancy despite certain chance of death, or even women that get pregnant 'on purpose despite high chance of death, but getting pregnant on purpose when there is certain chance of death? Possible, if the person is crazy, and highly unlikely to create a substantial quantity of half-vampires.

Not crazy, Values Dissonance is enough. What effect do you think the availability of this option would have on the world?

If the woman was pregnant before she was under the care of QUEEN BELLA OF THE MOST ANCIENT AND NOBLE HOUSE OF CULLEN and her family, I don't think she would force the woman (or anyone) to be turned.

I can see QUEEN BELLA OF THE MOST ANCIENT AND NOBLE HOUSE OF CULLEN "arresting" that woman so she wouldn't get pregnant in the first place, and doing what she could to convince said woman to not kill herself by supernatural pregnancy, dubiously ethical or moral, but I think she would do it.

If the secret was out and the masquerade was broken, there might be women who would be suicidal enough to try, I think it is actually very ilogical and even selfish to make a child grow up without her mother on purpose, but there might be quite a number of women that would try. But at that point, there would be much more women willing to sell they humanity to bear a half-vampire and be turned after giving birth, in fact, I can see that this would be the most common form of half-vampire surrogacy.

EDIT:

Alicorn is a Distaff Counterpart to Joss Whedon.

Of course! It all makes sense! To the Bat-cave!

EDIT 2:

Does Cody latest appereance counts as Ship Tease?

I Just realized that Bella is like Harry Clearwater "vampire mon", therefore, Bella is Cody's "Vampire grandmon" and Elspeth is his Aunt =O

edited 17th Feb '11 12:01:33 PM by Bluelantern2814

Man, if I knew my mom had died at my birth in order to grant me the gift of inmortality so I could help passing it on to the rest of humanity, I would feel so honoured. Yeah, it'd be a huge responsibility, but I'd bear it with pride. But perhaps we do not see things in the same light: you seem to think a child needs their parents to rear them and hug them and care for them, I was brought up in a system where parent sacrifice themselves, their own happiness, and, given the case, their lives, for your welfare: parental love, where I come from, is more of a matter of "duty" than of "affection". Your parents my go to incredible lengths to help you and protect you, but they won't involve themselves personally with you. They see rearing as a dangerous, troublesome, vital mission. Perhaps a holdover of older, crueller days?

Humans have different ways of dealing with these things, for different reasons, some good, some bad, depending on where you are on the globe, and to which social circles and traditions you belong to. Do not thoughtlessly impose your own values upon other people, do not judge them by your standards if you don't understand theirs. It'd be like judging your ancestors by your current standards: obviously they'll be monsters. But, remember, your descendents will see a monster in you too.

edited 17th Feb '11 12:23:00 PM by Ardiente

Man, if I knew my mom had died at my birth in order to grant me the gift of inmortality so I could help passing it on to the rest of humanity, I would feel so honoured. Yeah, it'd be a huge responsibility, but I'd bear it with pride. But perhaps we do not see things in the same light: you seem to think a child needs their parents to rear them and hug them and care for them, I was brought up in a system where parent sacrifice themselves, their own happiness, and, given the case, their lives, for your welfare: parental love, where I come from, is more of a matter of "duty" than of "affection". Your parents my go to incredible lengths to help you and protect you, but they won't involve themselves personally with you. They see rearing as a dangerous, troublesome, vital mission. Perhaps a holdover of older, crueller days?

While the bit about affection is important, the duty bit is a major reason, why I would be against it, because, guess what? Dead parents aren't that great to protect they children (unless they are ghosts! that could actually be a interesting show).

While you would bear the mission with pride, not every child would think the same, many wouldn't even be able to deal with the responsability, others would resent it greatly. At any rate, it is quite possible that the child would feel quilty for inderectly cause the death of the mother. Any person who complete disregards this kind of feeling is being completely insensitive.

Also if the parent really cared about its child so much, killing a whale per week seems a small price to pay, much better than death, specially because death is permanent

Humans have different ways of dealing with these things, for different reasons, some good, some bad, depending on where you are on the globe, and to which social circles and traditions you belong to. Do not thoughtlessly impose your own values upon other people, do not judge them by your standards if you don't understand theirs. It'd be like judging your ancestors by your current standards: obviously they'll be monsters. But, remember, your descendents will see a monster in you too.

I all about trying to understand and re-avaluate your own morals and etcetera, it is a important thing about growing as a individual.

That said, it doesn't mean that I don't think you can't be enough certain of anything to try to enforce it into others, at least when the subject is irreversible (like death or serious injury), at least you could stop it and spare sometime to make you and the person re-avaluate the decision.

I'll have to agree with you on this one. Hell, I already feel guilty for all the time and effort my parents spent in me. Well, that's whem I feel that I suck. But when I stop sucking and be awesome instead, I think it was all Worth It, and they agree with me. True story.