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 901 Troacctid, Fri, 20th Jul '12 11:28:42 PM from California
In practice, is it causing any debates? I don't recall ever seeing any sketchy or contested examples around the wiki. It's not something I'd intuitively expect to see either.

edited 20th Jul '12 11:29:19 PM by troacctid

Rhymes with "Protracted."
It's an audience reaction. What makes something look like a certain era, and whether something does resemble a period piece of an era in the future, depends on the viewer. It's not just "old work contains old things", that'd be every work ever.

At any rate, it's not a trope. You can't unintentionally design something to look like a period piece of the current time. I suppose it could go on trivia, but it seems YMMV to me.

I will admit I don't expect to see people fighting to the death over it like you would with The Scrappy.

edited 21st Jul '12 5:26:02 PM by MangaManiac

 903 Troacctid, Sat, 21st Jul '12 5:55:14 PM from California
It has nothing to do with the audience's opinion of a work. That there are elements in a work dating it to a particular era is an objective quality of the work.
Rhymes with "Protracted."
 904 Mag Bas, Fri, 3rd Aug '12 5:00:40 PM from In my house
I guess Felony Misdemeanor must be ymmv. It is totally dependent of the opinion(or, to be more exact, the morality) of the audience. The type 1, specially, is pure Values Dissonance, by their own admission.

edited 3rd Aug '12 5:05:01 PM by MagBas

Disagree. It is like Disproportionate Retribution. Doesn't have to be 100% objective to be basically objective.
Becky: Who are you? The Mysterious Stranger: An angel.
Huck: What's your name? The Mysterious Stranger: Satan.
 906 Mag Bas, Fri, 3rd Aug '12 7:31:54 PM from In my house
It is totally dependent of the morality of the audience- and the paragraph after the four types is "Since laws all over the world are rife with Values Dissonance, things that are misdemeanors or not even illegal in one country but treated as serious crimes in others can seem like this."

Loads and Loads of Loading seems to me to be an extremely subjective trope. What qualifies as a "long" load screen? How often do they have to appear before there are "loads" of them? Not only that, but the actual load time is not universal; depending on your platform something might load in less than one second, or so fast that you don't even notice the load screen at all.

It just seems to be a "trope" about criticizing a game.

Seeking for Light
[up] That one should probably go through TRS; right now it really just seems like a complaining trope (and thus subjective). I think it could possibly be made objective, though.

 909 Troacctid, Sat, 4th Aug '12 2:42:53 PM from California
The trope is "Long loading screens" which is pretty straightforward and not especially subjective. Objective tropes can have problems with complaining too.

edited 4th Aug '12 2:43:13 PM by troacctid

Rhymes with "Protracted."
 910 Mag Bas, Sat, 4th Aug '12 5:28:55 PM from In my house
Putting Germans Love David Hasselhoff and Americans Hate Tingle in the crowner. Both are obvious examples of Audience Reaction.

edited 4th Aug '12 5:29:23 PM by MagBas

So what qalifies as a long loading screen? Five seconds? Ten seconds? Does it vary depending on how long the following content is? If a level takes ten seconds to load, but lasts for one hour, does that qualify for the trope just as if the level was only five minutes? Additionally, how long is each loading screen? If you're working on a PC then a load can change drastically depending on what the specs of your computer are. Even working on a console, which are theoretically identical from one to the next, loads vary depending on how old it is, how it's being used, etc.

There should certainly be tropes covering loading as a game mechanic, but we've already got them (Dynamic Loading, for example, covers when a load is hidden behind other gameplay), this is just "Let's list games which suck because there's a lot of loading."

edited 4th Aug '12 6:12:43 PM by JBK405

 912 Troacctid, Sat, 4th Aug '12 6:46:36 PM from California
Just because you can split hairs if you try to overthink it doesn't mean it's automatically subjective. If there are long, frequent loading screens in a game, then you have Loads and Loads of Loading. If not, then it's not the trope. And if you're not sure, it's probably not the trope.

It's not that hard.
Rhymes with "Protracted."
Except that it depends entirely on what you (Or somebody) consider to be long. What if I say it isn't long? What if I absolutely refuse to accept that a load is a long load? Not because I'm being obstructive or an ass, but because I honestly believe it's not a long load? There's no objective qualification for "long" or "loads, " it's extremely subjective all by itself before you even get to the point that no two people are going to get the same load times. My loads might be five times the length of your loads because I have an old system, making it Loads and Loads of Loading for me, whereas for you it takes three seconds. Again, not because I'm trying to be an ass, but because, for me, it would fit in that situation where it doesn't fit for you.

That seems to me to be the very definition of YMMV or Audience Reaction: Something that one person might feel that another person might not.

 914 Troacctid, Sat, 4th Aug '12 7:30:31 PM from California
What if I say it isn't long? What if I absolutely refuse to accept that a load is a long load? Not because I'm being obstructive or an ass, but because I honestly believe it's not a long load?
Then remove it. And if the person who added it disagrees with you, talk about it on the discussion page. It's a wiki, after all.

If this happened regularly, it would be a good case for marking it as YMMV. Does it?

edited 4th Aug '12 7:30:53 PM by troacctid

Rhymes with "Protracted."
 915 Septimus Heap, Sun, 5th Aug '12 12:49:44 AM from Muggio Valley, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Puʻu ʻŌʻō
If that trope is complaining, it might be worth analyzing the pattern of complaining.

Otherwise, it would fall into the same category as Nintendo Hard.

To my knowledge it hasn't caused many edit wars (Then again, I only watch three video game pages so it might be happening a lot without my notice), but it's still subjective.

As a for example: We all agree that watching Seymour slowly die on Futurama is a Tear Jerker. Nobody contests that. Even robots cry at that scene. However, even though there's universal consensus it's still a YMMV trope, because it depends on how you/we (The audience) feel about.

For Mass Effect everybody thinks it has Loads and Loads of Loading (It's one of the biggest memes associated with the series. @#$%ing elevators), until along comes one guy who says "No, I disagree, the loading is perfectly normal relative to its gameplay." Again, not because he's being an ass, but because there's no sort of objective qualification for "How much is too much?" Or, which has happened, along comes one guy who says "On my system it loads quickly."

For this "trope" to work it relies on everybody sharing the same opinion on how much is too much, and also to all have the exact same hardware. If you've got a top-of-the-line system now you might not have the trope when everybody else does (And, like I said, somebody has already posted to the ME3 page pointing out how he has loading screens which go by in a flash because he's using a PC and not an X-Box). In ten years if we're still playing the game but we've all changed our system then nobody will experience the "trope."

It's not a contentious or argumentative trope, but it is a trope that relies on audience reaction and opinion, which is the definition of YMMV.

edited 5th Aug '12 6:00:44 AM by JBK405

 917 Septimus Heap, Sun, 5th Aug '12 8:21:03 AM from Muggio Valley, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Puʻu ʻŌʻō
That might be worth a trip to the Trope Repair Shop.

 918 Troacctid, Sun, 5th Aug '12 4:22:12 PM from California
Well that has its own separate trope, Dynamic Loading.
Rhymes with "Protracted."
 919 Trope Eater, Fri, 24th Aug '12 8:48:58 AM from the depths of Hell
That One Troper
Widget Series had the YMMV banner removed. However, the definition of a widget series is a series that doesn't make sense out of cultural context. Since all works are made in cultural context (unless it doesn't) this trope isn't (usually) intentional, and therefore, not really a trope.
   Evil is my favorite color.   
 920 Septimus Heap, Fri, 24th Aug '12 8:58:29 AM from Muggio Valley, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Puʻu ʻŌʻō
It's not just "out of context" thing.

Also, shouldn't this thread be in Special Efforts like the Trivia thread?

Did Not Do The Research as a YMMV trope? People are going to use it as a trope anyway, it should at least have it on probation before getting nerfed.

 922 Septimus Heap, Tue, 28th Aug '12 2:56:04 PM from Muggio Valley, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Puʻu ʻŌʻō
Did Not Do The Research is not a YMMV trope. It's not even on the poll.

Terradorablyfying
Marking something YMMV is not putting it "on probation", either.
Merge those duplicates! Fix that factual error! Delete that shoehorned non-example! You have the power! Meta Four
I know it's not a trope, hear me out; I request DNDTR to BECOME a YMMV. I don't see why it shouldn't be a trope, and people are using it as one anyway.

 925 Fighteer, Wed, 29th Aug '12 6:35:24 AM from the Time Vortex Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
DNDTR is an index. Just purge any examples of it that you find and, if applicable, put them in the appropriate Artistic License subtrope.
Neoclassicism, AKA the Tinkerbell school of economics.

Page Action: YMMV Banner 3
30th Jul '13 1:04:20 AM
What would be the best way to fix the page?
At issue:
YMMV is for items that are reactions of the audience to works and tropes that need a significant judgment call to tell whether they exist objectively or not.

Should these items become members of YMMV?

Note: Audience Reactions need to be subjective, emotional responses and things that are likely to cause arguments and disagreements. Merely being outside a work or inside an audience don't make things YMMV
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