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 851 Mag Bas, Fri, 27th Apr '12 11:21:24 AM from In my house
Added Signature Song. That is definitely an Audience Reaction, given that it is about the audience identifying the artist with the song. Also, looking through the page's edit history there have been a several disagreements over what are the signature songs of certain artists.

edited 28th Apr '12 5:11:41 PM by djbj

 853 Mag Bas, Sat, 28th Apr '12 6:32:55 PM from In my house
 854 Tagaziel, Wed, 2nd May '12 8:42:57 AM from Site 42 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
Procrastinator
Added Acceptable Breaks from Reality. As the name of the trope suggests, the break from reality relies on personal acceptance. And personal acceptance is, you guessed it, entirely subjective.

 855 Troacctid, Wed, 2nd May '12 11:21:01 AM from California
Acceptable Breaks from Reality is an index. It doesn't make sense for an index of tropes to be listed as an Audience Reaction.

It doesn't depend on the audience's reaction, anyway. "Acceptable" doesn't refer to a viewer consciously deciding that it's acceptable. It refers to real-world rules being ignored for the sake of the story—the idea that making everything as accurate and realistic as possible would be detrimental to the work. That's not YMMV.
Rhymes with "Protracted."
 856 Fighteer, Wed, 2nd May '12 1:24:08 PM from the Time Vortex Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
[up] What he said. The "acceptable" in Acceptable Breaks from Reality is not a value judgement; it is a statement of fact that in certain genres, ignoring certain aspects of realism is required in order to create a workable story.

For example, Space Opera nearly always has to have FTL Travel and corresponding Space Is an Ocean lest we be treated to boring years-long journeys between even the nearest stars. It's not a matter of liking it; if you fail to accept FTL Travel as an underlying premise, you are going to miss out on entire libraries full of sci-fi works.

It's very closely related to Anthropic Principle, which says that calling the superhero genre unrealistic because it has super-powered heroes is completely missing the point.

edited 2nd May '12 1:24:57 PM by Fighteer

Neoclassicism, AKA the Tinkerbell school of economics.
 857 Tagaziel, Thu, 3rd May '12 11:43:34 AM from Site 42 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
Procrastinator
I've added it because I've seen it listed as an actual trope. Since it's an index, not a trope, I assume the policy is to nuke it?

 858 Fighteer, Thu, 3rd May '12 11:48:04 AM from the Time Vortex Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
Indexes shouldn't be marked subjective anyway, but our point is that it is not, under any but the loosest interpretation, subjective.

Indexes should not be used directly as examples, but can certainly be referenced by them.

edited 3rd May '12 11:48:40 AM by Fighteer

Neoclassicism, AKA the Tinkerbell school of economics.
 859 Tagaziel, Thu, 3rd May '12 12:18:12 PM from Site 42 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
Procrastinator
So basically, indexes shouldn't be posted as actual tropes?

 860 Fighteer, Thu, 3rd May '12 12:43:02 PM from the Time Vortex Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
Correct. Super Tropes may be, of course, but you are encouraged to look for more specific ones if possible.

edited 3rd May '12 12:43:28 PM by Fighteer

Neoclassicism, AKA the Tinkerbell school of economics.
 861 Tagaziel, Thu, 3rd May '12 12:45:22 PM from Site 42 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
Procrastinator
Just wanted to clear this up. I was surprised to see Acceptable... posted as an actual trope and thus the proposal.

Added Purple Prose. The description states,

This trope does not cover works in a florid but not intrusive style — the sacrifice of Utility on the altar of Eloquence is an essential feature of Purple Prose.

and as I see it, the exact moment when Utility is sacrificed on the altar of Eloquence can't be objectively determined.
Quid autem coelo pulchrius, nempe quod continet pulchra omnia?
 863 Septimus Heap, Sat, 5th May '12 12:44:44 PM from Muggio Valley, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Puʻu ʻŌʻō
That one's got a TRS thread

Terradorablyfying
Should a note to that effect be added by its entry on the crowner?
Merge those duplicates! Fix that factual error! Delete that shoehorned non-example! You have the power! Meta Four
 865 Septimus Heap, Sat, 5th May '12 1:10:07 PM from Muggio Valley, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Puʻu ʻŌʻō
[up]Done, also edited the crowner inititation to make clear what "Audience Reactions" we are after.

 866 Mag Bas, Sat, 5th May '12 1:31:15 PM from In my house
Hollywood Personality Disorders needs a banner. Hell, at the end of the article in bold letters is your mileage may vary. Personally I think the article should be cut, but that's for another topic.

edited 13th May '12 4:42:39 PM by BerryBubble

 868 Septimus Heap, Mon, 14th May '12 8:33:50 AM from Muggio Valley, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Puʻu ʻŌʻō
[up]That thing is just a disclaimer. No idea why we would need it, really.

 869 Mag Bas, Thu, 17th May '12 2:06:18 PM from In my house
Alert: Signature Song needs only one vote to hit a ratio of 10 votes. Note: Exist 19 already called examples and no example with less than 10 votes. I guess it is a good time to a new crowner.

edited 20th May '12 10:28:41 AM by MagBas

 870 Troacctid, Sat, 26th May '12 12:28:26 PM from California
Alas, Poor Villain needs to have the banner taken off. It's not subjective at all. It's when there's a final emotional moment of sympathy when the villain dies. (Like a Single Tear or whatever.)

edited 26th May '12 12:31:26 PM by troacctid

Rhymes with "Protracted."
 871 Septimus Heap, Sat, 26th May '12 12:33:22 PM from Muggio Valley, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Puʻu ʻŌʻō
[up]That should probably go to TRS. Judging by the description and the (contextless) examples it seems like an Audience Reaction to me.

 872 Troacctid, Sat, 26th May '12 12:43:35 PM from California
Most of the examples on the page look like pretty straight, correct usages to me. We've got the Green Goblin whispering to Spider-Man not to tell his son what a monster he's become, the bad guy from The Mummy Returns quietly letting go of the ledge with a look of despair and hopelessness on his face, The Penguin's final moments with his penguins in Batman Returns, Javert in Les Misérables getting a sad song to send him off, the heroes of G.I. Joe taking a moment to lay flowers on their fallen foe's grave, etc.
Rhymes with "Protracted."
 873 Septimus Heap, Sat, 26th May '12 12:46:18 PM from Muggio Valley, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Puʻu ʻŌʻō
[up]It's the incorrect examples on the page and the wicks that bother me. It's one thing to remove the audience reference in the description, a quite different one to clean examples.

 874 Septimus Heap, Wed, 30th May '12 5:17:55 AM from Muggio Valley, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Puʻu ʻŌʻō
Not sure if it's the correct place, but I notice that there is a lot of seemingly-random overlap and non-overlap between YMMV/YMMV.Home Page and Audience Reactions as well as a lot of unsorted items at the bottom of Audience Reactions. Should they be sorted so that Audience Reactions stay on Audience Reactions and non-Audience Reaction YMMV go on YMMV and YMMV.Home Page?

 875 Troacctid, Wed, 30th May '12 11:26:58 AM from California
Probably, yes.
Rhymes with "Protracted."

Page Action: YMMV Banner 3
30th Jul '13 1:04:20 AM
What would be the best way to fix the page?
At issue:
YMMV is for items that are reactions of the audience to works and tropes that need a significant judgment call to tell whether they exist objectively or not.

Should these items become members of YMMV?

Note: Audience Reactions need to be subjective, emotional responses and things that are likely to cause arguments and disagreements. Merely being outside a work or inside an audience don't make things YMMV
Total posts: 1,430
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