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Kyon: Big Damn Hero:

 13526 Marq FJA, Wed, 9th Jan '13 6:35:13 AM from Saudi Arabia Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
O' Allah, save Egypt
Heck, he still calls Tsuruya by her last name.
That's mainly because 1) her given name, "Haruka", is rather similar to "Haruhi", and is also invented by Durandall due to canon!Tsuruya being a case of No Last Name Given, and 2) he is being respectful because she's his direct superior in the Tsuruya-gumi yakuza organization, plus he is now calling her "Tsuruya-hime" (basically "Lady Tsuruya"), which earns a good healthy blush from her the first few times.

I do wish that Durandall makes a little more regular use of her given name, at least in narration, so that the readers become gradually accustomed to it.
Ash-shaʻb yurīd isqāṭ ḥukm al-ʻaskar
 13527 Greenmantle, Wed, 9th Jan '13 7:18:37 AM from Britannia Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Marking Time
I wonder if Durandall knows of the other Suzumiyas from Kimi ga Nozomu Eien and Muv-Luv: Haruka and Akane.

...then again, it might lead to rumours of an enemy possibly far worse then the Combine... the BETA.
 13528 Filraen, Wed, 9th Jan '13 10:12:58 AM from Monstro Town
I do wish that Durandall makes a little more regular use of her given name, at least in narration, so that the readers become gradually accustomed to it.

I think the opposite: sure, Tsuruya needs a first name due to stuff in the fic so Durandall gave her one, but I prefer that first name to appear not often, only when it's needed.
 13529 Marq FJA, Wed, 9th Jan '13 11:05:51 AM from Saudi Arabia Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
O' Allah, save Egypt
I did say "a little more", not "a whole lot". Just enough so that as new readers progress through the story, "Haruka Tsuruya" gradually sticks in their mind, to the point that they wouldn't get confused if only "Haruka" comes up at some point.
Ash-shaʻb yurīd isqāṭ ḥukm al-ʻaskar
@thedarkfreak:

The only thing I was unsure of is Kyon calling Mikuru...well, just that. Her first name, no honorifics or anything. He's never called her that before, in my memory, although it's understandable about him avoiding "Mikuru-chan".

IINM, Kyon has been calling her "Mikuru" since the previous chapter (during the Bedmate Reveal?). IMO, sooner or later he had to stop referring to her with the overly formal "Asahina-san".

About Tsuruya, I personally like how Kyon calls her now. "Tsuruya-hime" has certain Lady and Knight overtones that I can't help but enjoy (even though they are a Yakuza Princess and her saiko-komon from an In-Universe's perspective).

That's reminds me, do you think Kyon qualifies for The Dreaded trope? IMO, his reputation in the Yakuza circles justify the trope even if he seems to be pretty oblivious about it.


Re. Friendly Tickle Torture.

Not sure if my memory is correct, but doesn't Kyon just catch her while she's trying to sneak into his room to wake him up?

Let me check:

SF-3:

Kyon leaped out of bed with a handspring, landing in a crouch before the opening door and lunging instantly into the forbidden little-sister-submission-tickle-strike, completely foiling her attempt to sneak in and wake him up first. Only after he had reduced her to a shrieking, laughing pile, and his mother was tiredly staring up at the pair of them from the bottom of the stairs did he relent.

"T...tickle-ninja!" his sister protested, her face red from laughter. "No fair!"

I think you are right. It seems Kyon caught Nonoko after she left her room but before she could sneak into his bedroom.


Re. Yuki's Affectionate Gesture to the Head.

[up]...When you look at it, it's kinda scary how in tune Yuki seems to be with everything, especially if she picks up other mannerisms for her own.

IINM, Yuki has been paying keen attention to behavioral and social patterns exhibited by her friend since very early in the story. A good example of her progress would be how correctly she surmised that "Suzumiya Haruhi needed a hug" in OB-3.

In particular, Mikuru seems to be her preferred source in this subject. Because of that, now I wonder if Yuki's quick acceptance of Kuyou in the Big Damn Harem is perhaps a misunderstanding. From LL-1:

There were no valid reasons why that could be a problem, in Yuki's understanding of things. Mikuru had effectively determined it was fine on her own, labeling Kuyou's early attempt to kiss Kyon as 'too soon' instead of 'inappropriate, ' according to the records from Ryouko and Kyon's PDA. If Yuki were to trust her judgement, then this was probably within acceptable parameters.


Random thoughts.

Do you think Miyuki is keeping tabs on the situation in Nishinomiya?

Considering how dedicated she is to her work, I think it's a very likely possibility even if it probably goes against her father idea of a vacation for her. Assuming this is possible in spite of the crappy cellphone reception in Hinamizawa (maybe she borrowed an computer uplink or satellite phone from work), how do you think Miyuki would react if she is informed of the Kowa-Keigo's involvement in a Car Chase on Saturday while knowing for a fact that such a thing is impossible because Kyon is right there with her in Hinamizawa?

IMO the answer to that question will depend on how strong Miyuki's Weirdness Censor is:
  • Agent Scully route: She will focus on how Kyon supposedly pulled off such a stunt, probably considering Mistaken Identity, Body Double, Twin Switch, etc.
  • Agent Mulder route. She will suspect that something "strange" is going on, which will make easier for her to connect the dots and discover about supernatural in the near future.

In any case, I think Miyuki's most likely course of action will be to take advantage of her unintended cover to observe Kyon and the SOS Brigade.

About that, and from a profiler's perspective, what kind of conclusions could Miyuki make about the main cast?

Their obvious closeness as friends is a given. IIRC, Miyuki is aware of the engagement, so it's likely that she will think Kyon is cheating on his fiancée if she catches him with another girl (probably not a big surprise considering his status as big-name yakuza, though). In the worst case scenario, she could think Kyon is some kind of unrepentant Lady Killer.

Miyuki probably will have problems to reconcile Kyon's reputation with his normal behaviour. Hopefully she won't think he is a Manipulative Bastard/Consummate Liar instead of a Punch Clock Villain/Even Evil Has Loved Ones combination.

That said, the ones that worry me the most are Yuki and Kuyou though. Their lack of social skills may give the wrong idea about them from a third person PoV.

For example, Iyouji described Yuki as "one of those small, sullen, quiet types who was probably good with unpleasant weapons" whose gaze can make you feel your "blood drop in temperature several degrees". Heck, even Koizumi described her stare as "coldly unnerving" at some point. If I have to put it into words, under the wrong circumstances I would say Yuki may appear to Miyuki as the Maiya Hisau to Kyon's Kiritsugu, someone coldly professional who follows his orders without question.

About Kuyou, I'm failing to predict anything about Miyuki's potential impression of her. She is usually described from the Brigade's PoV, so any description of her could be too biased for a valid extrapolation.


I better stop here, I'm too sleepy for coherent thoughts. See you later.

edited 9th Jan '13 7:10:43 PM by Specular

K: I have an idea, but I'm not sure how safe it is.
S: I like it already!
 13531 Filraen, Wed, 9th Jan '13 7:56:26 PM from Monstro Town
[up][up] That doesn't change my opinion. I actually like how Durantall is dealing with it right now.

[up]

Do you think Miyuki is keeping tabs on the situation in Nishinomiya?

I don't think so. After all it isn't like she'd get any leads during the holidays, right?

More seriously, I think no for the same reasons: Miyuki knows she's being played and realized she wanted to have some time off to start again in what seems like her last case.

Assuming this is possible in spite of the crappy cellphone reception in Hinamizawa (maybe she borrowed an computer uplink or satellite phone from work), how do you think Miyuki would react if she is informed of the Kowa-Keigo's involvement in a Car Chase on Saturday while knowing for a fact that such a thing is impossible because Kyon is right there with her in Hinamizawa?

I see two options.

1. She already learned about the superntural so no wories here.

2. She'll get some tip from her father (I think he knows about the "Groundhog Day" Loop) and will confront Kyon directly.

About that, and from a profiler's perspective, what kind of conclusions could Miyuki make about the main cast?

I see here the a possible way for Ryouko needing to get her human-size form.

For example, Iyouji described Yuki as "one of those small, sullen, quiet types who was probably good with unpleasant weapons" whose gaze can make you feel your "blood drop in temperature several degrees". Heck, even Koizumi described her stare as "coldly unnerving" at some point. If I have to put it into words, under the wrong circumstances I would say Yuki may appear to Miyuki as the Maiya Hisau to Kyon's Kiritsugu, someone coldly professional who follows his orders without question.

About Kuyou, I'm failing to predict anything about Miyuki's potential impression of her. She is usually described from the Brigade's Po V, so any description of her could be too biased for a valid extrapolation.

For Yuki, it sounds about right. I think now Yuki is starting to show expresions which may be noticed by not-Brigade-members.

Kuyou would be either worse than Yuki or an victim of psychological abuse with heavy mental scars ans apparently dependency to Kyon (if Miyuki can see her). And if we add a possible Lady Killer reputation of Kyon's... oops?

edited 14th Jan '13 6:33:40 AM by Filraen

 13532 Jbstormburst, Wed, 9th Jan '13 9:23:49 PM Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
[up]/[up][up]I have to severely doubt that Miyuki would see anything that would constitute Kyon as a Lady Killer, because as we all know, the Beta Harem is not exactly a non-secret in Hinamizawa, so if anything, the girls will self-acknowledge their need to keep things on the down-low, except if in the presence of ONLY Keiichi and company.

 13533 Jason Ulloa, Thu, 10th Jan '13 2:03:12 AM from Nowhere special Relationship Status: I know
Timeline updated. grin

edited 10th Jan '13 2:03:37 AM by JasonUlloa

 13534 Eamil, Thu, 10th Jan '13 3:25:15 AM from Somewhere over there. Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
[up][up][up][up]Re. The Dreaded: That page suggests Terror Hero as a heroic alternative, and the characteristics of a "type 5" Terror Hero seem to fit Kyon.

In any case, I think Miyuki's most likely course of action will be to take advantage of her unintended cover to observe Kyon and the SOS Brigade.
What unintended cover? The SOS-dan has seen Miyuki before, and suspects that she's involved in the investigation. Though I suppose they don't know how interested she is in the SOS-dan in particular.

(I think he knows about the Groundhog Day Loop)
Why? Rika hasn't even told her spouses about Hanyuu, which doesn't really point towards revealing other supernatural info to less closely related characters. And I don't remember Akasaka Sr. finding out in canon either, though it's been a long time since I read Higurashi.

Actually, I don't think Miyuki has much of a Weirdness Censor, which (IMO) is going to be a good thing for them. I honestly don't think she'd be an Agent Scully. Even if she can't explain how it happens, she accepts the things that happen.

She's been shown before to not let trifles such as current knowledge of physics get in the way of accepting concrete facts presented to her. Both the security footage of the jail when Kyon spoke to Yamane and her later footage from a shadower that shows Kyon get teleported away from a fight. ("She couldn't explain the how, so she focused on the why" I think paraphrases that decently.)

@Specular: Ah, thanks for that. Didn't realize he'd called her 'Mikuru' last chapter. I do agree that Asahina-san was too formal, I don't know why 'Mikuru' surprised me so much. He's called Yuki by just her name.

And I do agree that Tsuruya-hime fits well, I was just thinking in the context of first names. I still find it amusing that his fiancee is the only one he hasn't called by her first name.

edited 10th Jan '13 10:00:12 AM by thedarkfreak

 
 13537 Marq FJA, Thu, 10th Jan '13 12:05:42 PM from Saudi Arabia Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
O' Allah, save Egypt
Say, how common is the use of "slider" to denote people who travel from/between alternate universes? I know it originates from a show named Sliders, but as far as I can tell nobody outside the Haruhi Suzumiya fandom uses it.
Ash-shaʻb yurīd isqāṭ ḥukm al-ʻaskar
 13538 Mad Kitsu, Thu, 10th Jan '13 2:54:19 PM from Pursuiting a Trope-tan..
The Kitsune of Lunacy
[up][up][up][up]: Actually, I think that Kyon does show traits of a type 3 Terror Hero, particularly against Yamane Jun after said person tried to push Tsuruya out the window. Unless "dangling a guy at the edge of a window" doesn't count for a type 3 Terror Hero.

edited 10th Jan '13 2:58:31 PM by MadKitsu

My mission: to gather all of the Trope-tans and make New Tropeia a tropey place.
 13539 Sinclair, Thu, 10th Jan '13 3:27:56 PM from Deep Space
Scriptor Referens
@Marshmallow Heaven snip: As far as I know, his reaction was natural. All of it.

On a related note, I've just realized all the implications of where this story is heading...
Und wenn du lange in einen Abgrund blickst, blickt der Abgrund auch in dich hinein.
 13540 Filraen, Thu, 10th Jan '13 3:32:44 PM from Monstro Town
Care to share with the rest of the class?

edited 10th Jan '13 3:33:00 PM by Filraen

 13541 Eamil, Thu, 10th Jan '13 3:34:41 PM from Somewhere over there. Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
[up][up][up][up]I don't think the show Sliders is actually the origin of the term. I could be wrong though. I remember seeing it discussed elsewhere but I'm not certain that was the conclusion they came to.

You're right though, it doesn't seem that commonly used. (Edit: Actually maybe I'm thinking of a discussion about the term "esper." Now I have no idea.)

[up][up][up]I thought about that too but he doesn't generally go for over-the-top displays of force to deliberately deter future encounters. He just happens to be that awesome. [lol]

edited 10th Jan '13 4:49:07 PM by Eamil

 13542 Filraen, Thu, 10th Jan '13 5:16:14 PM from Monstro Town
On checking the timeline I got caught by something in the last chapter (Re-2): when the Brigade departed from Tsuruya's house? I'm not sure if they leave late Friday or early Saturday.

edited 10th Jan '13 5:16:50 PM by Filraen

@Filraen:

Miyuki gave me the impression of being a workaholic. I'm guessing she is the kind of person who simply can't completely disconnect herself from work. Furthermore, she is in charge of an ongoing investigation. New and sudden developments are the par of the course in police work, which make me think Miyuki is perhaps keeping her phone close by in case she has to run back to Nishinomiya.

About kbdh!Rika, I think she never told anyone involved about the "Groundhog Day" Loop. We know for a fact that the Higurashi cast don't know about Hanyuu or, at most, remember her as a Rika's relative who came to Hinamizawa in 1983. Similarly, Akasaka Mamoru most likely retained her martial knowledge via Ripple Proof Memory but that's pretty much it. I wonder if he still keeps himself in shape in his fifties. A sparring match between him and Kyon would be quite a sight to behold, don't you think?

I see here a possible way for Ryouko needing to get her human-size form.

How so?

Kuyou would be either worse than Yuki or an victim of psychological abuse with heavy mental scars ans apparently dependency to Kyon (if Miyuki can see her). And if we add a possible Lady Killer reputation of Kyon's... oops?

I'm not sure if I'm reading this right, but are you saying that Miyuki could arrive to the conclusion that Kyon is collecting Broken Birds to do his bidding by the means of becoming their Living Emotional Crutch? O_O *

OK, that's one way to deconstruct the Harem Genre. *shakes head*

BTW, I think Kuyou is keeping her "occlusion field" deactivated for the duration of the visit to Hinamizawa. For example at the end of Re-2, Yuki requested sharing a room with her in Mion's presence, implying that the latter can see Kuyou.


@Jbstormburst:

I have to severely doubt that Miyuki would see anything that would constitute Kyon as a Lady Killer.

Don't forget that noticing things like that is part of Miyuki's job. Also, it has been noted in-story that Mikuru and Kanae's feelings for Kyon are pretty easy to read (if your nickname is not Kyon). Even Haruhi and Sasaki are pretty obvious about it in their own way.


Re. Timeline.

IINM, the whole set of events in Re-2 happened on "Fri Jun 17". I personally never noticed a date change and Kyon mentioned that they technically only travelled through space. Another hint of this are Mion's words to Sasaki about missing classes on Saturday.

P.S. Ninja'd!

P.P.S. BTW, some time ago I created two easy-to-remember URL for the timeline: tiny.cc/kbdh-timeline and tinyurl.com/kbdh-timeline.


Re. The Dreaded/Terror Hero.

I'm not sure if Kyon qualifies as a Terror Hero because he doesn't seem to intentionally resort to scare tactics as a general approach to deal with his enemies. IOW, it's not his intention to be feared by the Sumiyoshi-rengo, just the result. Then again, as Mad Kitsu pointed out, Kyon can be pretty damn scary when provoked enough. /hesitant


@Zakun:

Hi there! IINM, it's the first time I see you here.

What unintended cover? The SOS-dan has seen Miyuki before, and suspects that she's involved in the investigation. Though I suppose they don't know how interested she is in the SOS-dan in particular.

Miyuki has no reason to think that someone linked to the Kowa-Keigo knows about her, so she is likely to seize the opportunity and play the role of a family friend to get some firsthand information. In fact, even Kyon, the only one who has met her in person during his solo mission in CBS-1, probably won't remember her (after all, a LOT of things have happened since May 26th). Perhaps the picture of Miyuki that Kyon took at the time will prove to be relevant.

Now that I think about it, I wonder if Miyuki and Kyon knows each other in their Back Story. IINM, Miyuki is sixteen years older than Kyon. Who knows, maybe she had to babysit him at some point or something [lol]. Alternatively, maybe Miyuki and Akane knows each other. If My Calculations Are Correct, they have more or less the same age.


@Marq FJA:

Say, how common is the use of "slider" to denote people who travel from/between alternate universes? I know it originates from a show named Sliders, but as far as I can tell nobody outside the Haruhi Suzumiya fandom uses it.

In fact, the correct term (as used by the novels) is "異世界人" (isekaijin, lit. parallel world's person). I suppose the first person who translated the novels used the word "slider" (probably from the series of the same name) and the term simply caught on.


Random thoughts.

Do you think Skynet would get a good phone reception in Hinamizawa?

For some reason, I got the impression that it could have an amazing coverage if Achakura is capable to optimize the connection with public networks (or simply by breaking into the JSAT network or something like that).

I wonder if Achakura could become the best Playful Hacker/Voice with an Internet Connection ever thanks to the limitations imposed on her. I mean, without access to data manipulation Achakura can't do much more than administrate Kyon's tools, but when said equipment includes a terminal with some undefined connection to Internet, some interesting possibilities arise. I'm guessing that her nature as a data entity could make many computational problems a non-issue to her (like the ones typically associated to cryptanalysis), or at least it would grant her with non-obvious means to approach them.

edited 10th Jan '13 6:45:19 PM by Specular

K: I have an idea, but I'm not sure how safe it is.
S: I like it already!
 13544 Marq FJA, Thu, 10th Jan '13 5:42:21 PM from Saudi Arabia Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
O' Allah, save Egypt
Come to think of it, we haven't seen anything from Skynet for ages. I miss the little guy/girl/whateveritis.

On checking the timeline I got caught by something in the last chapter (Re-2): when the Brigade departed from Tsuruya's house? I'm not sure if they leave late Friday or early Saturday.
Well, Mikuru was using her time-travelling powers (with some help from Yuki and maybe Haruhi, probably due to it being a mass-transport spacetime-shift this time), if that's any help. Try to pinpoint the previous chapter's place in the timeline, and work from there.

edited 10th Jan '13 5:43:17 PM by MarqFJA

Ash-shaʻb yurīd isqāṭ ḥukm al-ʻaskar
I assume it's late Friday. One, the meet-up seems to happen pretty soon after school lets out(unless I'm reading it wrong), and second of all, a couple of Kyon's comments makes me think it's Friday. First, he mentions that they'll probably go back in time to when they left when the vacation is over. Next, when Sasaki mentions Kyon was driving a car:

Haruhi: Wait, when did you learn to drive?

Kyon: Probably Friday night.

That combined with that they probably don't want anyone to notice they've gone makes me think they left Friday(mainly so Kyon can go back and get those driving lessons).

edited 10th Jan '13 6:17:00 PM by thedarkfreak

 
 13546 Filraen, Thu, 10th Jan '13 6:17:20 PM from Monstro Town
I thought it was late Friday but Jason's first edit put that on early Saturday. I just wanted someone else who agreed with me as I've been mistaken in the timeline before.

@Specular: Sasaki was surprised for the sun lowering down so for her it must be still morning.

On Kyon's reputation as Lady Killer: I was going she could even considering rape with some side order of Stockholm Syndrome... now that I think of it is isn't too different to what you mentioned.

Me: Ryouko may need to use her human-size form

How so?

Miyuki knows about that final meting between Ryouko and Kyon and from her point of view Ryouko "went to Canada" immediatly after. Miyuki already suspect "something sinister" happened there.

If Kyon has to demonstrate he didn't kill Ryouko having Asakura Ryouko herself appearing to chat with Miyuki claiming any rumors of her death are greatly exaggerated may be the one of the most effective solutions (as long she can evade all the other questions Miyuki might have)

edited 11th Jan '13 7:29:31 AM by Filraen

 13547 Eamil, Fri, 11th Jan '13 3:16:09 AM from Somewhere over there. Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
[up][up][up][up]
I'm not sure if Kyon qualifies as a Terror Hero because he doesn't seem to intentionally resort to scare tactics as a general approach to deal with his enemies. IOW, it's not his intention to be feared by the Sumiyoshi-rengo, just the result. Then again, as Mad Kitsu pointed out, Kyon can be pretty damn scary when provoked enough. /hesitant

That's why I specified type-5. It doesn't rely on any particular "scare tactics" beyond the fact that his reputation has grown out of control. He may not have deliberately built up that reputation but he's sure as hell been taking advantage of it in the aftermath of Sasaki's first kidnapping.

Come to think of it, I thought "types" were being discouraged now.

edited 11th Jan '13 3:16:37 AM by Eamil

 13548 Filraen, Fri, 11th Jan '13 3:28:19 AM from Monstro Town
For the record, I've made a revision to the timeline (Re-2 part only). As always, feedback and corrections are appreciated.
 13549 Mad Kitsu, Fri, 11th Jan '13 5:31:38 AM from Pursuiting a Trope-tan..
The Kitsune of Lunacy
[up][up]:Still, the fact that when he does use force, that it is an impressive display of it, should qualify him for a type three, even if he doesn't entirely intends on it. Tropes Are Flexible, after all.

Besides, said trope says that the first four type evolve into the fifth type over time anyways, so he can be of more than one type, yes?
My mission: to gather all of the Trope-tans and make New Tropeia a tropey place.
 13550 Eamil, Fri, 11th Jan '13 8:47:01 AM from Somewhere over there. Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
[up]The whole point of type 3 isn't just an impressive show of force, it's that it's being done with the intent to "intimidate a foe into submission." That's not really what he does. He fights to incapacitate rather than kill but not really to intimidate, and it doesn't really have that effect when he actually does fight. I can't think of a time when he beat up on a few mooks and the rest were all "Shit, we can't take him, let's get out of here!" Either they fight until he's hurt them all too badly to keep fighting or more recently they'll just surrender without a fight at all.

You're right that someone can be more than one type - Batman is a good example - but I don't think that's the case here.

edited 11th Jan '13 8:55:25 AM by Eamil

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