Final Fantasy general

The internet was retconed in for Do C. And just kept for CC.

It was never mentioned or alluded to in the original game.

Someone pointed out to me that Omega WEAPON is the FFVII-verse equivalent to Omega Weapon from Final Fantasy V. I suppose?

I thought Dirge of Cerberus was okay. Not great though. It could have used a bit more work. And the "Planetary Network" thing was okay too. The Internet was around when VII was made, it was just a lot more minor. And the protagonists wouldn't be able to use it because they started off in the slums and later on were being hunted by Shinra, who would be able to use it to locate them. And a lot of the time, they were in locations that wouldn't have it, and there didn't seem to be much, if any, satellite technology.

VII barely had a cellphone, remember?

edited 30th Dec '13 3:44:24 PM by Zendervai

"Deepground:Where did these guys come from?"

They were deep under the ground.

No seriously, that's teh answer.

"Bodies that need mako to survive? Mako is tainted Lifestream that the Planet can't take back. Its poisonous."

Part of the SOLDIER program is showering people with Mako. Zack and all the SOLDIE Rs you meet in FFVII aren't poisoned or anything.

"The proto materia Omega and Chaos thing is really dumb, and was never foreshawdoed."

Well, yeah, they had to invent it for this game so it wasn't foreshadowed. But it does make sense when you think about it. The Lifestream is a living organism that seeks always to maintain its life just like anything else. The Planet already amde Holy to eliminate threats so it also made Omega and Chaos to return all life to the Planet so said life can travel to a new world when the current one is done for.

My problem is that this is supposed to be a global event, like a safeguard against an extinction level event. No idea how merely killing a few dozen or hundred or even a thousand people made the Planet think its life was in jeopardy.

"Lolicon."

Not a problem for me. Shelke was one of the best characters in the game. She was also voiced by Kari Wahlgren ie. Lady Ashe. You can never have enough of that awesome voice.

"A game about Vincent? Really? The character whose lines mainly consist of "..."."

When you get right down to it, Vincent is one of the most important characters from FFVII and adds more to the main story than anyone short of Cloud and his girlfriends.

With Vincent in your party you learn Hojo is the real villain of the whole damn game and Sephiroth, while eclipsing him in power, is just another example of Hojo's madness.

Also dunno what you guys are talking about. DOC had great music. One of the first tracks to really grab me was Silent Edge. It has so much atmosphere in its weird noir style and it really stands out. I was also a huge fan of Shelke's and Nero's boss themes. For other energetic pieces, WRO March while for more emotional songs, it had Fragment of Memory.

I didn't have a problem with anything said so far. No, my problem and primary criticism of Dirge of Cerberus can be summed up in one word. Wel, one name.

Lucrecia.

She is hands down the worst written character in FF history and that is because the story wants us to think she is sympathetic when in fact she was just a terrrible human being.

I think Lucrecia was actually rehearsing her audition as Hanyuu during Do C.

Mako is still Tainted Lifestream though. It is poisonous and Cloud even went through something called "Mako Poisoning". And Soldiers are showred with it so that their bodies either adapt and become stronger to cope, or they die. Being constantly infused with Mako would not only kill someone but kill the Planet as well, because they would have to keep Mako reactors going.

Also its really bad writing to just invent something for the sequel. Where the heck was Omega and Chaos when. Millions of people were dying, The Lifestream was being drained, and a Planet killing virus was running rampant.

...Yeah, I'm popping back in for this.

"Deep under the ground"

Under a city that was being drilled into with eldritch energy tentacles, and also had reentry eat that would have cooked them alive, as it did everyone else? Also, how did no one get geostigma when they were at ground zero for the damn stuff?

"Poisoned"

Yeah, they were, actually. Remember the part where "only the strong make it into Solder". They were just strong enough to withstand the poisoning. Cloud, on the other hand, wasn't. But it does poison you. That's why it's called "mako poisoning". Then you get brain damage and/or die.

"Omega and Chaos"

It was a shoddy retcon at best. Why didn't Omega appear when the fucking world was ending? Yes, on a meta level, because it wasn't invented, but this is just basic stuff you need to think about before you just go and add things in. Also, Chaos was dumb. It was a damn gameplay element that got way too much attention and a lame anime transformation to boot.

"Lolicon." "Not a problem for me. "

I have no words. None.

Also, she was a failed attempt at "stoic Broken Bird. She was just there for Vincent to creep on so she could "redeem him". Even if she was the best written character in the world, this is not okay at all. It would never be okay.

What that game needed was some Nobuo Uematsu, and all it got instead were just some tunes that sounded rather generic at best, and obnoxious at worst (Gackt's thing, for instance. And I generally like J-rock. Gackt just isn't very good.)

Thing about Vincent is, he didn't really feel necessary. He was just the obligatory goth quotient. You can play through the game and miss almost nothing. You know Hojo is behind all this if you quick on the books and read into Aeristhsthstshst's backstory at Knowlespole, or see the experimentation flashback. You can play through the game without Vincent, though all he adds is "wow, Hojo sure is an asshole. I mean, I knew that before, but... he sure is an asshole".

And yeah, Lucrecia was a cunt-whore. LOL I'M RELLY SRRY FOR EXPERIMENTING ON MY BABBY & CHEATING ON U. 4 FMAE KTHX.

All of this game's shortcomings can basically be traced to poorly thought-out retcons. Honestly, would it have ben so terrible to have a game where Vincent stays over Lucrecia and tells her to fuck off, and then fights off some cultists trying to bring back Sephiroth/Jenova or something? And all the cast was there? That should have been the sequel. I would play the shit out of that. It would be amazing. And Reeve could be playable, in sort of a Tali-esque role — guns and tech stuff. And then they could think the gameplay through better, so it would be really good, and they'll keep everyone's characterisation intact this time instead of Kingdom Hearts'ing everyone, and that would be an amazing game.

Well, this was a shitty reintroduction to this thread. Though I have some questions about IV, if anyone wants to answer them. About time I finished that LP.

Psychic ninjas...

edited 30th Dec '13 4:17:27 PM by GameSpazzer

In the clip we get of Omega activating, it only works after the planet gets hit by the meteors. If METEOR had hit the Planet, then Omega may have appeared.

It was drilling into the Planet, and Holy was letting it. Also, there was when Jenova (or the part of her meant to do the infecting, whatever) impacted in the first place at the Northern Crater. I'd say one of those two should count.

And even then, you'd think the Planet would be aware enough to recognise all the corrupted Lifestream during the geostigma pandemic, and maybe freak out a bit about that.

Hm... you know what would have been an actually good sequel? Provided they got someone to make non-cheeseball writing, anyway:

Some nutballs find Lucrecia, who is somehow still alive because the Planet missed purging her Jenova during the whole geostigma fix thing, and decide they can use the mother of their "Savior" to bring him back.

This is actually a twist, though. They talk about Mother, so the player assumes all through the first couple acts that they've actually rediscovered Jenova.

Due to a combination of being driven mad by having Jenova whispering in her ear during her years of isolation, and regret of never experiencing the fruits of her labour, Lucrecia agrees to work with them.

Then... I have to think about the rest, hold on.

As for the IV stuff... how much time did I just waste getting Bahamut? I think I might have wasted my time... does it help with the boss at all? I'm too furstrated with this game to go back and get Fang or anyone else, and I'm pretty sure a lot of good items were Lost Forever due to the translation I have being less than stellar. I think it might be a fan one...

The SNES translation leaves a lot to be desired. And a bunch of items were actually removed from the game.

edited 30th Dec '13 4:38:19 PM by Null

1. Yeah, just fine. Except for the part where he was in a vegetatibe state for a year.

2. So then why did it release all the Weapons but one when it clearly thought there was a big enough threat to send out the big guns?

3. But Lucrecia wasn't really too important to the plot. The big focus of the game was Cloud's psychological journey. Lucrecia didn't even interact with him much. What we actually needed was a scene of Sephiroth interacting with Hojo or something (and not the crap from CC).

4. ...No. No, no, no, no, no, and no.

Little girls being portayed sexually is not a thing one is "into". It is a problem. A big one. In some parallel universe or something Boku no Pico might be Japan's version of Ulysses, but even if it was this would be completely fucking irrelevant because there is a ten year-old getting sucked off by a college student. NO.

Thus, it is also not okay for a sixty-two year-old man to creep on a girl that looks nine and sounds nineteen.

Mako isn't tainted Lifestream. It's just Lifestream in liquid form. It can naturally appear in Mako springs, like the one on Mt. Nibel. Mako can make one stronger with the right doses, like SOLDIER, but overexposure can mutate people and animals, like the people being bathed in it in the Nibelheim reactor.

Overexposure can also mess with one's mind, Mako Poisoning. This is what happens to Cloud in disc 2 when he falls into the Lifestream, he loses his sense of identity from phasing through all the souls and memories of those in the Lifestream, causing him to go into a coma.

MOD HAT ON

Nikkolas, we're not big on people acting like Lolicon is OK.

MOD HAT OFF

Pretty sure it's processed Lifestream, not just in liquid form. But regardless of what it is, both raw mako and Lifestream will fuck with you.

Which actually kind of explains why there are no female Soldiers. It kills/damages enough men as it is, and women are physically weaker.

Hold on, still typing up the potential sequel. And those IV questions.

Mako is refined Lifestream that can be used like oil.

Mako does not appear naturally. It does not and cannot. That's like saying someone's soul can just naturally be turned into something alien.

The Mako springs were probably the Planet trying to spit out the Mako because it can't be processed anymore.

The only reason it makes someone stronger is because the Soldiers are forced to evolve so they can cope. That's the reason it causes mutation. The body is trying to cope with it. Soldiers are the lucky ones.

On top of that you can't use the sequel/spin offs as a reference point for arguing that Mako isn't poison, because by Do C it wasn't poison thanks to Retcons.

edited 30th Dec '13 5:19:21 PM by Azure

The SOLDIERs are also given Jenova Cells as well, and they need to be mentally strong enough to resist Jenova's control, or else basically they become one of the people in the black hoods you see through the game, going to the Northern Crater for the Reunion.

And no, Mako isn't processed Lifestream. In fact, it's explicitly said that Mako is just another word of Lifestream, though I always remembered as Mako being liquid and Materia solid forms of it. Materia can form naturally, and it's condensed Mako.

The Mako fountain is also said by Sephiroth to be natural, and Tifa says it will dry up if the reactor keeps sucking up the Mako.

This is all from the original game.

The reason Cloud was a vegetable after Northern Crater is because he was a vegetable after the experiment five years ago. The only thing that helped him recover was the Jenova Cells flimsily taping his mind together and the Sephiroth went and peeled off all the tape so he fell apart again.

Again, he was just fine after taking another bath in the Lifestream and Tifa was even wtih him this time. She also had no side-effects.

As for why the Planet didn't employ omega back then, I dunno. Why didn't the Cetra just use Holy to eradicate Jenova? I already conceded Omega beign summoned in DOC doesn't make much sense anyway.

edited 30th Dec '13 5:33:25 PM by Nikkolas

Mako.

Poison.

Also regardless of whether or not Cloud recovered, he still suffered horrible negative affects both times.

edited 30th Dec '13 5:38:09 PM by Azure

I'm not totally arguing against it being considered poison, it has obvious negative effects from enough exposure, but it's basically the same as Lifestream. When Cloud fell into it in the Northern Crater, that was nowhere near a reactor.

And Tifa was just fine and Cloud recovered from the worst case ever by literally doing nothing but having flashbacks while being submerged in this supposedly awful poison.

We have ample evidence from the original game it does nothing to super strong people and that's what the Tsviets are.

Who was dependent on Mako anyway? Wasn't that only Shelke?

edited 30th Dec '13 5:47:50 PM by Nikkolas

Okay, so these cultists attack Cloud at Sevehtn Heaven one night or something, letting the player do a tutorial thing with Cloud just kind of grabbing a barstool and beating in faces with it. The gameplay would need to integrate the RPG elements a bit better, though if done right, a more action-adventure feel could be neat as well. Maybe something KH 2-esque? I really did think the materia system from the original game was well-executed. Armour would stay simplified as well, with your arm thing, accessory... and instead of swapping out weapons all the time, you can simply upgrade your existing one. Increase damage dealt, or boost critical rates? Something to differentiate them from the materia you have on. This would also cut down on gameplay-story segregation, since everyone would have the same weapons in the custscenes. Since the gameplay would be a bit more 3D, you could also command your teammates to flank an opponent, or hide behind something.

Anyway, they see him as the anti-christ or something, who brought about their savior's downfall, and that a bit of digging reveals that they have found "Mother" and will use her to recreate him. So they round up the usual suspects and go out to investigate. Cloud, Tifa, and Barret are rather torn on this, as they now have something to lose — namely, children counting on them that they need to look after. Barret gets a bit more exploration where he wonders if he has done a good job raising Marlene, and Cloud talks with him briefly about his worries with Denzel, as Barret found Marlene as a baby, but Cloud is worried about Denzel accepting him as a true part of his family. Tifa is also concerned about Cloud relapsing, and wonders if he is responsible enough to handle a family. She also wonders if she is responsible enough to handle a family, as she is also a young woman in her prime and is not sure this is where she wants it to end just yet.

Meanwhile, Yuffie has discovered that she has shirked her obligations to Wutai enough, and is now expected to start taking a bigger role in her country's development. While she is relieved that the newly-foudned city-states around where Midgar and Kalm and stuff used to be are no longer forcing Wutai to peddle to tourists and are now economic partners, she is understandably worried about one day having the weight of an entire country on her hands, and her loyalty is torn between her friends and her nation.

Nanaki could be concerned about being the sole survivor of a dying culture, and... gets fleas? Ionno. Nanaki never had much point beyong forcing the player into Explosition Canyon and showing off the game's engine, but I'm sure there's something to be done with him. He's useful enough gameplay-wise, anyway.

Cait Sith is no longer needed (or sentient, because that was a terrible idea), and Reeve is now playable. Reeve is running the WRO, which is basically the Planet's Red Cross but with volunteer soldiers or something, but is also taking a bigger role in government with Edge in particular. He and Yuffie may butt heads.

Vincent is now over Lucrecia, and has set himself up as an investigator. He acts as the group's informant, and as more party members are added, Vincent's introduction could be as a mysterious cultist stalking the party that turns out to be Vincent, acting as a mole. He tries to fit into the new society, but his lack of social skills continue to make him more of a loner. Maybe he makes friends with Reno, who is no longer lame comic relief.

Cid has settled down with Shera, and wants nothing to do with any of this. He has made a name for himself designing aircrafts/airships, and wants nothing more than to settle down. His loyalty is called into question multiple times. Possibly there's a 10-Minute Retirement, or maybe he's introduced early on, but doesn't actually join the party until [INSER NAME HERE] is wounded, making him realise this can't be ignored and will affect him somehow no matter what.

As with the first game, the characters reacting to things will largely fuel the story. Anyway, not sure what else will happen, but at the end Lucrecia "gives birth" to some ungodly monstrosity that is certainly not Sephiroth, but is no less homicidal, and the party dispatch it and her, after she goes One Winged Angel. Possibly as that one Madonna picture with the seven swords in it, that she uses to attack you with. Teehee.

There's also a lot of exploration at the new world being created, and the branching societies within the city-states. Kinda like X-2, but with less dumb outfits and more "why are we here" stuff.

Also, chocobo racing, but instead of that godawful breeding shit, you just work to level up the chocobo you have.

Any other ideas?

So I have a Plot question and it surprises me because I have literally been talking about FFVII's plot for over a decade and I didn't think anything new could occur to me. It's also very simple so I feel dumb now.

Why didn't the Cetra just use Holy to eradicate Jenova back in the day? It destroys all negative things to the Planet and obviously Jenova is precisely that.

Too much collateral damage?

Why does using Sword Magic reduce Steiner's MP when Vivi's the one casting the spell?