Complaining: Generic Doomsday Villain

Here is one I have wanted to tackle for a while.

A Generic Doomsday Villain is supposed to be a villain who lacks a clear motive and/or personality, but is often misused as "any one-dimensional/cliché villain", even if they have a motive and/or personality, no matter how basic (ie, a villain who wants to Take Over the World and is characterized as power-hungry wouldn't qualify even if they had no other characterization). A test is if the character is an approved Complete Monster, which means they have the personality to not be this trope.

This is undoubtedly because of the name, as calling something "generic" makes it a complaining magnet. I suggest we change the name to something like “Motiveless Malignity”.

The Generic Doomsday Villain Wick Check found only 15 correct examples- 17 were misuse, 13 were ZCE, and 5 were not written clearly enough to tell either way.

Wicks Checked: (50/50)

Opening

Not sure what to suggest without enough discussion, but I can throw how I've always thought the trope used like: "A character whos only defining trait is being an active threat to everyone, they really don't do anything else in the story and lack Start of Darkness."

The “Generic” part of the name seems to really damper people’s perspectives on this trope—and I wasn’t there, but it seems similar the Boring Invincible tropes. So likewise, some entries feel the need to say “Oh, this is a good example!”

Yep, precisely why I believe this should be renamed.

In particular, the Eldritch Abomination is often defined by their lack of personality and clear motive, which makes them more alien and thus scarier. So this trope is far from always a bad thing.

Edited by MasterN on Dec 16th 2021 at 3:49:18 AM

For those unaware, Invincible Hero and Invincible Villain used to be called Boring Invincible Hero and Boring Invincible Villain, but were renamed because the "boring" part attracted complaints. I was reading the OP and thinking that would also be a good comparison.

I think a rename would help here.

It might also help to nail down a definitive list of criteria for what counts as a GDV, or whatever it ends up being called, like has been done with some other complaining-prone tropes.

Yeah, I feel like a rename and working out a better set of criteria would help solve a lot of the misuse.

Edited by Bullman on Dec 16th 2021 at 7:35:19 AM

Technically there already is. It must have no established personality or motivation.

Well, Lavos has a motivation- eat humans and have offspring on Earth, then send them to other planets to continue the life cycle- but is considered a GDV because it has no personality, being more of an animalistic predator than a cackling megalomaniac.

Edited by MasterN on Dec 16th 2021 at 6:40:24 AM

A rename I'm on board for, though unlike Invincible Hero and Invincible Villain shortening it to "Doomsday Villain" might risk it becoming yet another Big Bad, i.e. used as a loophole to include the Omnipresent Trope of Villains on a work page.

Edited by harryhenry on Dec 18th 2021 at 9:16:05 AM

Personally I'd always been under the impression that this trope was describing a Villainous Flat Character due to the name.

Even the description says “ Essentially, a villain who is a Flat Character, defined solely by the threat they pose.” But that is not necessarily the case- plenty of Complete Monster characters are Flat.

Which is why I think Motiveless Malignity is a good place to start, though obviously we also have to account for the personality aspect.

Edited by MasterN on Dec 16th 2021 at 10:21:28 AM

Bumping this.

We don't need to use Added Alliterative Appeal for everything. Motiveless Villain is fine and keeps the name clear.

Alternatively, we can go with Force Of Nature Villain since it describes the actual concept of the trope better than saying they have no motive.

Edited by Karxrida on Dec 17th 2021 at 11:32:39 AM

Motiveless Doomsday Villain Motiveless Force Of Destruction, or something like that? Cause i think it will lead to misuse or confusion if the name focuses soley on the motive (or lack thereof) and not on the idea of a villain who just wants to crush everything in their path. Motiveless Villain to me first brings to mind a villain with underexplored reasons for their actions

Characterless Villain?

I like the Force Of Nature Villain name the best, though it might lead to confusion with the very different way Extra Credits uses the term (which is more akin to characters like the Dark Knight Joker, who is most certainly NOT this).

Edited by MasterN on Dec 18th 2021 at 12:11:45 PM

I don't like Force Of Nature for this trope; it sounds like an enemy who's only barely sentient like a huge fire elemental or something, and this trope includes that but is much broader.

"Force of nature" sounds like Nature Spirit too much.

I actually kinda like Motiveless Malignity. Rolls off the tongue.

Oddly it’s a redirect to For the Evulz, which is a motivation.

Edited by PurpleEyedGuma on Dec 18th 2021 at 4:40:05 AM

Generic is being confused with flat/underdeveloped. That should be changed however we go about it.

Motiveless seems misuse as GDV do have motives/goals (hostility to/destroy x), it's that they lack personality traits (i.e. greed, sadism, insanity, envy, lust, vengefulness, power-hungry) or high-functioning reasons for said motives. Characterless seems better but has the same problem as being confused with Flat Character.

My thought was renaming "Feral Doomsday Villain". It coveys how their motives/actions are supposed to be driven by some base instinct/nature, to the point it's dubious if they even have agency, thus coming off as a wild animal/force of nature as opposed to any humanizable motives.

I think the inhumanizability (while still being to basic to call it Blue-and-Orange Morality) is what separates GDV from other villains with evil but understandable motives, hence Feral covering how it's distinct. Thoughts on that?

I agree with the objections to putting "Force of Nature" in the name, and I'd prefer simply calling this Motiveless Villain or Characterless Villain because the proposed Alliterative Name (which is a redirect to For the Evulz and not this trope) sounds forced because it sounds like a thesaurus was consulted when it was coined (due to "villainy" and "evilness" being more commonly used words).

Either way, ditching the word "Generic" would be an improvement, since we did the same thing with the "Boring" part of the old names of Invincible Hero and Invincible Villain.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Dec 18th 2021 at 5:23:48 AM

Do Bank Robbery, "cause destruction", "kill people at random" or Take Over the World count as motives? With Motiveless Villain I'm concerned that a villain without any motives wouldn't do any villainy at all.

Maybe Motiveless Evil or Motiveless Evilness would work instead. Or Motiveless Antagonist if we want to keep the name character-focused.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Dec 18th 2021 at 5:36:56 AM