Fate/Apocrypha

Wait thats his plan, really?

Seems like it won't accomplish much.

How will that make the world better?

I haven’t finished the LN but By what I heard it pretty much has to do with heaven feel I think and turning everyone into unhurtable no hate spirits

What's boring to one doesn't always mean boring to others. So... what if I found my own personal enjoyment or engagement while watching this show? Weird?

Doesn't make them any less crap.

Its like liking The Room. Sure your entertained by it but it doesn't mean its good.

Or the Transformers movies. You can bee entertained by that shit but it doesn't mean they aren't shit.

edited 14th Dec '17 9:52:58 PM by slimcoder

I mean, there's no accounting for taste. Some people genuinely enjoy stuff like Black Clover which just baffles me but it doesn't mean I can say "you actually don't enjoy it because I say so". Sometimes you just like stuff.

I don't care if you like it or not. Someone simply asked how Apo was boring and I answered.

Your opinion is irrelevant, mine is the only one that matters.

That would still make it hard to find someone who I can share my experience and opinions. As in, just people on similar wavelength.

edited 14th Dec '17 11:01:44 PM by ChrisX

This is why y'all need Heaven's Feel

No pesky human desires from being a materialized soul

Oh wait, QTL get fucked Amakusa

He was never going to win in anything

You answered but I feel like there are flaws with your answer

Oh well.

The Moon Cell works similar to the Third Magic when it comes to materializing souls, and not only do people still have emotions there's also nothing they can do when the aliens come to Reap without Servants.

In fact it makes it easier for outside forces to corrupt people, ala Gilgamesh himself being corrupted by the power of the Goddess of Vengeance.

I apparently I don’t know Shirou plan. I know he well intentioned extremist and understated some of his plan but I’m probably going to need find or watch the show again for more info.

edited 15th Dec '17 9:32:26 AM by mortalpuncher

Sieg is not the only problem, just the most glaring one. It's just a personal opinion, but I always felt that Apocrypha Jeanne is as flat as characters can be. She seriously needs some internal struggle, a conflict within herself, something that makes her flawed and human. I don't like Arturia or Rin, but they are far more compelling and interesting female leads, and since FSN has set a pretty high standard for female leads/love interests, it's disappointing to see a cardboard waifu character who is neither original nor interesting (also, she is Jeanne d'Arc, for God's sake! you don't even need to invent a story for her, just open a history book and let her story write itself! how do you manage to make a character with such an interesting background boring and bland?).

Besides, the LN itself bites more than it can chew. The amount of characters is too large, and some of them barely get any character, story, motivation or screen time. Spartacus and Avicebron (along with Roche) don't influence the plot in the slightest, and Frankenloli and Siegfried only exist to give our protagonist a powerup.

Also, I wholeheartedly rooted for Amakusa all the way since his name and purpose were revealed. I mean, the guy wants to "save humanity" in a way that doesn't include genocide and/or excessive cruelty and genuinely tries to settle the matter peacefully before jumping into combat... why am I supposed to dislike him again?

I don't think being 'antagonistic' means that you have to be disliked. To me Amakusa is less 'supposed to be disliked', but more 'an antagonist with mystery'. Antagonist aren't always Hate Sink.

A lot might probably forget, but if you want to know an example of someone 'supposed to be disliked', Astolfo's first Master is the shining example of that, no matter how short-lived she was.

Okay, maybe my choice of words was wrong. It's okay if the antagonist is likeable, but I am still supposed to root for the protagonist, right? Here, the antagonist has a good goal, his means to achieve it aren'r deplorable, and the protagonist tries to stop him because... because... why is he doing it again? Just let Amakusa proceed with his plan.

I guess it's because you view this as a shonen-style story with clear cut Black-and-White Morality. For some reason I don't quite do that.

This is getting like it's a Fate equivalent of Fire Emblem Fates (the controversial entry which the majority hates and anyone who happens to find value in it would be treated like they have shit taste for not knowing 'what makes a good story', look at what happened when Nasu himself gave praise to an element)... Great, now I can't unsee Sieg with white hair to look like male!Corrin...

edited 16th Dec '17 1:14:15 AM by ChrisX

Well, the issue with Amakusa's goals is that he isn't asking anyone, he's forcing salvation upon mankind using a definition that may not really mean anything. And he and Jeanne don't know it, I think, but if he were to succeed it would probably result in a pruned timeline because it would be a HAPPY END and HAPPY END leaves no room for further advancement or development. Whether that means the world would actually end or not is unclear, but I suspect Nasu would argue that it doesn't even matter. The world would be stagnant and stagnation means death to him.

But unless you know a lot of obscure details about the setting you're not going to know this, especially since some of this stuff wasn't revealed until Extella, which came well after Apo ended.

Edit: Oh yeah, and it's a big thing in the setting that the dead should not make decision for the living. Amakusa and Jeanne's time is past, so they should just watch over humanity and protect them from the shadows type thing.

edited 16th Dec '17 1:13:28 AM by Arha

Essentially other media give context for why this is a bad idea, rather than the story itself.

FGO itself answers Amakusa has his own glqring flaws, including an unhealthy obsession with the Holy Grail. Like if he saw the Angra Mainyu corrupted Holy Grail of FSN he'd be trying to do the exact same thing even though it would fuck over everyone. He'd even work with known supervillains whole revel in being an evil Criminal Mastermind.

There is the glaring flaw in her logic that having Incarnated he is one of the living now, but Jeanne seems to ignore that.

edited 16th Dec '17 1:28:01 AM by OmegaRadiance

Actually, it's more of a case of Love It or Hate It than anything.

Then, in Love It or Hate It, does it include the Hate camp saying the Love camp has got to be stupid for 'not understanding true quality' and whatever is the reverse?

And what about the "Withstand It" camp? (They don't love it, but they still think it's just decent and normal, not something hate-worthy.)

I don’t know I mean he still should count as a dead person even if he has flesh now his era is done.

Once they incarnate they are are flesh and blood as any other human and live as such.

Gil himself only tried the grail mud scheme in FSN to cull the unworthy because he was given a living mortal body by the mud and he has made it his duty to Adjudicate humanity when he is given life via incarnation again. He decided that he will be mankinds Adjudicator before he died and ascended to the Throne, being able to see the future and all that jazz.

And the other guy who incarnated to live out his dream of being an ordinary human.

Other guy?