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Deadlock Clock: Mar 8th 2017 at 11:59:00 PM
Anddrix Since: Oct, 2014
#1: Jan 6th 2017 at 12:44:28 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple is supposed to be about a pairing involving one half of an Official Couple and another character who isn't part of said Official Couple that is significantly more popular than the canon Official Couple. Yet I frequently see this used for works that don't have official couples or even any romance in general.

There are also examples where a second Official Couple, or a pairing between two other characters who aren't in a canon relationship, that doesn't conflict or interfere with the main Official Couple is listed.

People adding examples also seem to be ignoring what's written on the trope page, as I've seen people listed 2 pairings that include the same character as examples.

Wick Check:

Adept (Holding A Herring) Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
#2: Jan 6th 2017 at 3:47:11 AM

Basically, the trope is used as simply "the most popular ship in the fandom". Or worse: "this ship have a fanbase, regardless of the size".

The requirements listed on the page description seem pretty clear, so I'm not sure what actions need to be done, beyond a wick clean-up.

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#3: Jan 6th 2017 at 3:56:13 AM

Indeed. Seems more like a case for someone to make a projects thread, or simply to clean up problem examples themselves.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Getta Since: Apr, 2016
#4: Jan 6th 2017 at 8:58:41 PM

"requirements on the page seem pretty clear"

I'm afraid said requirements are added to prevent misuse while it already had misuse. From long ago.

We don't need justice when we can forgive. We don't need tolerance when we can love.
Adept (Holding A Herring) Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
#5: Jan 7th 2017 at 1:04:10 AM

Actually, I did start a thread in the Short Term Projects about 2 years ago here. Didn't garner any further discussion, though...

Apocrypha Since: Jul, 2013 Relationship Status: Singularity
#6: Jan 15th 2017 at 11:26:38 AM

Maybe there could be some kind of separation? Creating a new trope for all the "popular but non-contradictory" ships to redirect people away from misusing Fan-Preferred Couple?

Getta Since: Apr, 2016
#7: Jan 15th 2017 at 2:14:42 PM

[up] That doesn't seem really tropeworthy

We don't need justice when we can forgive. We don't need tolerance when we can love.
helterskelter Since: Nov, 2009 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#8: Jan 15th 2017 at 7:41:28 PM

It should actually be added to the stipulation that there must actually be an Official Couple involved—the description doesn't actually clarify that. I think it's a good addition, and keeps it from being meaningless, but I didn't actually realize that it was a stipulation, and I've been keeping some of the subpages clean every so often for awhile now.

Getta Since: Apr, 2016
#9: Jan 16th 2017 at 1:00:50 AM

[up] Clean-up and reminder in work pages need to be done too; sometimes people may not realize that the trope they knew has been modified.

We don't need justice when we can forgive. We don't need tolerance when we can love.
Adept (Holding A Herring) Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
#10: Jan 16th 2017 at 1:55:34 AM

@6: I think people usually just lump those lists under Shipping to get around the FPC criteria.

[up][up]Re-reading the stuff written above the criterion folder, I just realised how confused the trope description actually is. The first section says that the pairing in question is "not happening" because it's "breaking up" the Official Couple. The statement that this is related to Better Than Canon seems to support that.

However, the next section says that "disregarding Official Couple" doesn't always happens, and that the Fan-Preferred Couple may eventually become official, implying that this aspect of the trope is not a necessity.

edited 16th Jan '17 2:05:30 AM by Adept

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#11: Jan 16th 2017 at 2:05:42 AM

I don't think that Shipping itself is usually used as a trope. Popular Shipping Pairings seems like a good replacement page.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#12: Jan 16th 2017 at 2:26:17 AM

I would add non canon pairings to that so maybe Popular Non Canon Ships, Popular Unofficial Ships or Fanon Shipsmaybe? It being non-canon fans only thing is easily the whole point to the trope as described on the shipping index.

edited 16th Jan '17 2:35:58 AM by Memers

helterskelter Since: Nov, 2009 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#13: Jan 16th 2017 at 12:48:21 PM

[up] I feel like that would contribute to the misuse, though. Those titles just clarify it must be a non-canon couple, and the misuse isn't related to people listing Official Couples.

As a shipping trope, this one is probably always going to get some heavy misuse; it's nice and validating when your favorite non-canon couple gets listed in the page. I don't think there's a name that can be given to this trope that will discourage misuse.

I do see some of the merit in it—it's telling that a lot of the Shipping Tropes have Avatar: The Last Airbender as their page image, because the shipping wars in that fandom practically bent it in half. When such a division exists between the creator and the fandom, I can see why it's worth getting listed... but 99% of the time, that's not actually happening.

I personally see only two options: clarify the description some more, or cut all examples.

It's been awhile since I've been active here, but have we ever done anything where we keep examples of the workpages and just keep the main trope page and subpages active? That's the only thing I can see that can keep it manageable, instead of 1000-mile whack-a-mole.

edited 16th Jan '17 12:48:30 PM by helterskelter

Getta Since: Apr, 2016
#14: Jan 16th 2017 at 9:59:07 PM

@ Adept

When the page says "Often, but not always, involves disregarding a competing Official Couple with extreme prejudice," it means that the official couple (say, Alice x Bob) doesn't break up or isn't being outright made nonexistent in fanon, just that fans would like to see Alice x Charlie more.

I don't think it's a big issue, it's still "Alice x Charlie is preferred over Alice x Bob", just that it's not done in a... hostile way.

There may also be scenarios where Alice does have 2 (or perhaps more!) official couples at once, i.e she's cheating (or, rarely, they all know about it and the 2 guys agree to share). In that case "Alice x Charlie is preferred over Alice x Bob" is not an example, but "Alice x Daniel is preferred over her with Bob or Charlie" is an example.

We don't need justice when we can forgive. We don't need tolerance when we can love.
Karxrida The Unknown from Eureka, the Forbidden Land Since: May, 2012 Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
The Unknown
#15: Jan 17th 2017 at 1:43:52 PM

I think the description needs an overhaul to be more clear. The restrictions are hidden in a folder at the bottom for some reason, and the main/most visible part of the description isn't exactly the best at conveying what the trope is. These issues are likely contributing to the misuse.

Also, Apocrypha pointed out some issues with Restrictions 1 and 2 in another thread that I think need to be looked over.

After ironing those out, we should revive the existing cleanup thread.

edited 17th Jan '17 2:05:20 PM by Karxrida

If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with?
Adept (Holding A Herring) Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
#16: Jan 18th 2017 at 12:31:46 AM

Right. The description is mostly an affirmation about why the FPC won't ever happen in Canon, and says little about what the trope actually is. The "restrictions" could probably be moved to the main text after we sort out the issues with them. Anyway...

With restriction #1, we need to define what constitutes as a "canon couple", and what isn't.

For example, the most popular ships in Pacific Rim and Zootopia are Mako/Raleigh and Nick/Judy respectively. They are not technically an Official Couple, since they never actually hook-up (and their relationship can be interpreted as platonic rather than romantic). However, I'm not convinced they qualify as FPC, since they share the most on-screen chemistry, and shipping them doesn't really contradict anything. This restriction should probably be included in the description.

There's also a question if this "contradiction" can apply for something other than breaking up an existing pairing... If the character is supposed to be a Celibate Hero, and would never hook up with anyone because of that, would it qualify as FPC if fans want to see them hook up with someone?

Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#17: Jan 18th 2017 at 6:00:57 AM

Generally when there is no Official Couple or at least someone solidly in the lead there isn't a solid fan preferred couple, shipping factions for pretty much every option are something that continue to exist past the series lifetime.

Hell even when there are Six OfficialCouples people still fight over those.

edited 18th Jan '17 6:04:49 AM by Memers

Getta Since: Apr, 2016
#18: Jan 18th 2017 at 7:47:47 AM

[up] "continuing to exist" is true, but them being "tropeworthy" is doubtful.

[up][up] Really good question there.

  1. I think if someone is a Celibate Hero and fans want him to hook up with someone then it's not exactly fan preferred. Like, preferring it to what?
  2. If 2 people are merely close without being an actual couple, then A) shipping those two together would just be Shipping Goggles (though there might be Ship Tease between them). B) shipping one of them to another character wouldn't be Fan-Preferred Couple; again, nothing to compare it to (because the two aren't officially together).
  3. If there's absolutely no Official Couple in the series then Fan-Preferred Couple can't exist.

Just my 2c.

edited 18th Jan '17 7:48:24 AM by Getta

We don't need justice when we can forgive. We don't need tolerance when we can love.
Adept (Holding A Herring) Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
#19: Jan 19th 2017 at 9:11:34 PM

[up]Re point #2: Well, if the characters are just friends, they probably don't count, but how about a pair who gets a Will They or Won't They? dynamic who never get an explicit They Do on-screen? They're not really an Official Couple since that trope requires them to actually consolidate the relationship, but they are for all intent and purposes a "couple".

[up][up]That is, at best, a Ship-to-Ship Combat. At worst, that's just a list of every conceivable pairing in the work, which really don't tell us anything about the work or the characters.

Getta Since: Apr, 2016
#20: Jan 20th 2017 at 3:49:43 PM

[up] If you mean "they're close enough to being a couple because the story really focuses on their relationship", then I guess I can see your point. In that case a Fan-Preferred Couple would be possible on them (i.e pairing one of them with a different character).

Relatedly, there are also cases of The Not-Love Interest where 2 people, despite not exactly being lovers, are "played" as if they are, fiction-wise. Fan-Preferred Couple can then apply on them too, I think?

We don't need justice when we can forgive. We don't need tolerance when we can love.
captainpat Since: Sep, 2010
#21: Jan 20th 2017 at 7:13:54 PM

This is an Audience Reaction so I'm not sure why it's being treated as a trope.

edited 20th Jan '17 7:14:22 PM by captainpat

Adept (Holding A Herring) Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
#22: Jan 20th 2017 at 7:46:16 PM

Just because it's an Audience Reaction, doesn't mean there's no rule or requirement for what can be included.

helterskelter Since: Nov, 2009 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#23: Jan 20th 2017 at 8:09:40 PM

IMO, in the event one ship cannot be said to be a clear FPC, then I wouldn't list anything for that character. You simply don't have one, just ships.

captainpat Since: Sep, 2010
#24: Jan 20th 2017 at 8:15:00 PM

[up][up] well, yea. What should be included is what fits its definition. It doesn't seem as difficult as you guys are trying to make it seem.

Getta Since: Apr, 2016
#25: Jan 21st 2017 at 4:48:21 AM

[up] It should, but it's not what's happening.

(The very title of the thread should tell you, but that's not happening either.)

We don't need justice when we can forgive. We don't need tolerance when we can love.

Total posts: 44
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