To-do list:
- The trope refers to when the Token Minority and/or token female can do no wrong. Remove any examples that don't fit that definition (such as misuse that refers to the preexisting meaning of "positive discrimination"). In addition, since the Laconic used to reference Mary Sue, which is Flame Bait, complaining may need to be cleaned up.
Yeah, this should really be Flame Bait or just cut completely. This trope seems to be attracting racism (plus, all Mary Sue tropes are Flame Bait).
Edited by GastonRabbit on Sep 5th 2022 at 2:15:47 PM
Bumping this...
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard FeynmanWhile we're on the subject, let's nuke (or at least FB-ize) Political Correctness Gone Mad. It's already been locked for being a drama magnet, after all...seems like this is the logical next step.
FB-ize?
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard FeynmanHrm.
I'm torn. On one hand, this is absolutely a trope. Especially in the 90's and in many ways is tied to (or sort of an evolution of) the Magical Negro trope, frequently overlapping with Women Are Wiser. Shows weren't sure how to characterize black people in particular, so they sometimes went with "make them cooler than anyone else." Ditto works that went ahead with making the Smurfette just leagues more competent than her male counterparts in a girl-power sort of way.
On the other, I absolutely think this is a magnet for overuse, especially since the name generally refers to affirmative action (already a contentious issue) which isn't really tied to this.
Possibly a rename to "Hypercompetent Token Minority" or something?
edited 14th Dec '16 7:12:44 AM by Larkmarn
Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.Positive Discrimination is really a much wider term than what's described in this trope, which is probably the main issue. For one, it explicitly refers to token character (itself a frequently shoehorned concept), whereas the actual term doesn't need that.
A rename is probably the least we should do.
Check out my fanfiction!Flame Bait-ize. Sorry for the confusion.
edited 27th Dec '16 7:07:54 AM by Theatre_Maven_3695
I think this might be able to be salvaged. It's definitely a thing and the description, while long, seems pretty good, describing what I expected, while also taking a fairly balanced stance that even points out how this can come from several directions.
The name is a problem. This is certainly connected to the concept of Positive Discrimination, but in a subtrope sort of fashion at best.
On my quick glance through the examples, I definitely see a problem, but others seem okay. The How To Train Your Dragon one seems okay, because while it mentions the contrasting incompetence, it seems brought up to highlight why hers stands out. On the other hand, the Dogma one seems stretching, because it sounds like the context was contrasting corrupt businessmen with their everyday employees, and the fact that one side was male and the other female was essentially a coincidence. The The Lone Ranger one is related to this trope's concept, but doesn't sound like the trope.
edited 15th Dec '16 1:08:41 PM by Jokubas
Can we keep it just for characters who are driven by the intention to prove themselves in the world by setting an example for their own group? For example in Zootopia the main character thinking herself as the first bunny in the police force was obviously meant to be seen as empowering, therefore she fits the trope.
I don't think that's quite the same thing. A character's motivation is different from how she's treated. Discrimination is the latter, not the former.
Check out my fanfiction!The way one of the characters in Series.Speachless is treated, based entirely on their disability, —they get applause and nomination for class president— would be In-Universe Positive Discrimination.
I need to look over the wicks/examples on page or see a Wick Check before I form an opinion.
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.The examples on the page don't exactly give me a lot of confidence for salvaging. I think this concept is way too broad for one page.
It's definitely a trope for things mentioned above like Magical Negro when trying to be politically correct veers into fetishization via putting minority characters on a pedestal or making them some kind of super human.
The problem though is how YMMV the line between just a minority character having special traits based on their culture and being fetishized actually is. That's what makes this kind of trope iffy to attempt to catalog.
edited 16th Dec '16 3:36:15 PM by shoboni
So another thing is that this trope also shows up when the character isn't really a token anything. One of the ways this is pretty universal is when it pops up in a Right Way/Wrong Way Pair, especially in advertising. Since it's a pair of people, no one's really a token anything but it's still chock full of clear-cut examples because you know that whenever Right Way/Wrong Way Pair shows up, if one of the pair is a woman or a minority, there's almost no way they're going to be the wrong way.
Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.Clock is ticking.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Women Are Wiser is another less controversial trope that can lead into this when done in a way that heavily leans on the unfortunate implications of the "man always stupid, woman always smart" dynamic.
edited 27th Jan '17 8:51:40 PM by shoboni
I'm currently doing a wick check and so far it's been mostly "this female and/or minority is the most kindest, level-headed and/or competent character in the work or some group in a work". Seems to fit the definition.
That sounds like we need a major overhall then.
There's nothing inherently "discriminating" about that unless it's done a way that comes off as fetishizing someone for their minority status.
It's discrimination if it's treating minorities as inherently better one way or another. Fetishising has nothing to do with it.
Check out my fanfiction!As a subset of the real life term "positive discrimination", this trope (which needs a better name) is a real thing that is believed by some writers and used in their fiction.
This trope is one of those "badly aged" tropes that is looked down upon by people these days. (How do we classify it?) Back then it was okay portraying minorities as the better people (after the backlash with the older Mighty Whitey trope).
Like the tropes listed in Unfortunate Implications, this is indeed Flame Bait material if not handled right, but I don't think this needs cutting.
We don't need justice when we can forgive. We don't need tolerance when we can love.It's also a term that's widely misused in RL.
Imagine a work with: one straight white male, one gay white male, one straight white woman, one straight black man, and one straight Latino man. If you assign the role of "superior" to one at random, there's only a 20% chance it will be the SWM. But if you assign it to anyone but the SWM, you will get accusations of reverse discrimination!
That's what makes sorting the examples difficult. Simply saying "the lone woman is shown to be superior" is ignoring the amount diversity the cast may have.
Speaking words of fandom: let it squee, let it squee.Somewhere between "trope clump" and "trope in aggregate" is the concept that a certain thing in a work may be a storytelling device, but the information given by the work is not sufficient to tell whether it is. A number of problem tropes belong to this category.
The way to fix this is to stipulate that examples must not be listed if there is no explicit confirmation - via Word of God or in-story - that the things in the examples in question are actually storytelling devices.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
The two usually go hand-in-hand.
Like those "lampshaded/references only" tropes?
I believe in-universe examples of this could be in, too. E.g Bob in Show X is a higher-up in his office that favors a certain employee Alice over others because she's the only black lady working there.
We don't need justice when we can forgive. We don't need tolerance when we can love.I second a rename. Positive Discrimination is much broader than what the trope actually is.
Also agree with limiting this to Word of God and In-Story examples.
edited 28th Jan '17 7:12:11 PM by pokedude10
Crown Description:
What would be the best way to fix the page?
To-do list:
Yeah, this should really be Flame Bait or just cut completely. This trope seems to be attracting racism (plus, all Mary Sue tropes are Flame Bait).
Edited by GastonRabbit on Sep 5th 2022 at 2:15:47 PM