Why do superheores still use secret identities?

I had read been reading Mark Waid's run on Daredevil and somehting aobut the first volume bothered me. In the first volume Matt Murdock tries to deny the fact that he is Daredevil despite the cat being out of the bag at that point. I know this one of those neceessary weasels but why do heroes till use secret identities?

I'd say it's not even a necessary weasel at this point, but a plain and simple grandfather clause, dramatically useless for anyone but Batman, if not altogether. Superman is currently doing an unmasked run without much fanfare, Spider-Man's traditional family and workplace issues have been steadily phased out in favor of him being Tony Stark-lite, and the latter himself started the public identity superhero trend in the Marvel cinematic universe, which has so far gone pretty well. Only the Batman mythos actually needs the double life shenanigans in order to function, but that one is also the most chock-full of weasels in the first place.

All in all, despite all the shilling regarding symbolical duality, power fantasy-enabling anonymity or what have you, superhero secret identities are a genre staple mostly due to industry inertia, and seem to be on their way out in most adaptations, and discarded altogether for newly created heroes. I'm pretty sure some will stay on for old times' sake, but otherwise, it's simply one of those things in comics it just doesn't pay to make a point of.

Does any non-spider hero in Marvel even have a secret identity these days? (And also Spider-Man himself only has a secret identity due to everyone being mindwiped by Satan).

Aside from Daredevil, I can only think of the new Ms. Marvel and currently Squirrel Girl - though both of them deliberately invoke the teenage Peter Parker style.

For that matter, does anyone else think it's possible to revamp Batman himself as a single identity character, perhaps in a similar way to how The Phantom becomes only The Phantom once he dons the mask, with no civilian life to speak of? Think about it - young Bruce Wayne goes missing and is presumed dead following the murder of his parents. There's no Wayne Enterprises to speak of, with the remaining family fortune being kept by Alfred, the old retainer tending to the decaying mansion. As there are no DNA samples of the Waynes left, not even modern forensics can make the trace between them, and the mysterious newly appeared vigilante colloquially known as the Bat-man, who secretly operates from a network of caves beneath the old Wayne mansion. His resources are fairly limited, but his detective skill and scientific prowess are unmatched. He is Vengeance; he is the Night; he is... better than canon in my opinion, but I can easily see at least an Elseworld working with that sort of premise. In short, Bruce Wayne died with his family; now, there is only Batman.

In this time and age, you can't really gain great scientific skills without having the money to pay for a top-notch education. And any worthwhile academy of that caliber won't let you register under a false name for long; if you would happen to somehow slip by, you'll be found out before long.

edited 16th Aug '15 7:38:07 AM by NapoleonDeCheese

I'd say it's the other way around - with modern communications, access to scientific information has become easier than ever, especially for someone used to circumventing the law and skilled enough to hack into all sorts of databases. To that effect, there's a fair bit of leeway between Batman being wealthy enough to operate on the relatively low tech level he's famous for, and being a certified plutocrat which frequently raises the question of whether his public identity wouldn't be more effective in reducing crime in the first place. Remember, being a rich idiot with no day job used to be merely a prop to explain the gadgets and free time needed for vigilantes to function; nowadays, that sort of cover is all but impossible to sustain.

with modern communications, access to scientific information has become easier than ever

A lot of the scientific information you can get that way is rubbish and often contradicts each other, though, and the means to actually conduit high profile experimentation are more expensive than ever. You need actual human teaching of an acceptable level over a decent amount of time to become a top scientist in this time period.

And you need more than just Rapid-Fire Typing skillz to hack into the Pentagon mainframe, but as Acceptable Breaks from Reality go, these haven't been totally discredited yet. Among all the various Tibetan Shaolin Ninja academies Bruce Wayne's visited anonymously during his travels, finding some secret science labs to study in would hardly be less realistic in comparison.

Well, yeah, but then you are just creating a version that demands for as many Willing Suspension of Disbelief jumps as the original, so...

Right, because in the tale of a vigilante who can speak just about any language living or dead, has a broad enough education to fill three libraries, and has mastered more martial arts styles than a dozen Shōnen protagonists combined, clearly the most unrealistic thing about all that would be for him to not have been an Ivy League alumnus. We got no-name Russian ex-cons building laser whips from mail-order supplies, but suggest a Batman not among the Fiction 500, and everyone loses their minds. Grasping at straws here, mate. A simple "not muh Batman" would've sufficed.

I'm not saying 'not muh Batman', don't put strawman words in my mouth. It's you who is making claims of your just made up version being better than the one several decades of talented writers have honed and worked on, after all, so if anyone's making bold statements they really have to live up to under scrutiny that's not me, I think.

I have no problems with urban vigilante figures who don't have Bruce's resources (Daredevil, Punisher, Huntress, et al), but they work because they have their own idiosincracies that make them what they are. Changing any character's background is always a risky gamble; it can be done, of course, but there's a very narrow edge to walk into between success and In Name Only or a "Why did you bother changing something that worked for something that doesn't work as well or at best works just as well?'

edited 16th Aug '15 8:58:40 AM by NapoleonDeCheese

I'm not sure that Superman's current "unmasked" status has gone off without fanfare; I've seen a LOT of posts by a LOT of people who hate it utterly. I'm not a great fan of it myself.

I'd definitely say secret identities work better for some characters than for others. It never really made sense for Tony Stark to have one, but he did because traditionally super heroes had secret identities. Same for the Hulk and Thor, originally. Which is a bit odd, given that Stan Lee didn't mind eschewing the whole secret id bit in the case of the Fantastic Four.

I suppose the big question becomes can we get more story mileage out of a character's having a secret id, or being a public celebrity? And again, it depends on the character, and the writer. For Superman, I think it works, as with Batman and Spider-Man. For Iron Man or Captain America, I don't think it does. In most cases it can work beautifully unless the writer insists on it NOT doing so.

There is the notion that a secret identity plays to the classic fantasy of "I am more than I appear to be," which is certainly a sentiment that a lot of people can relate to. Personally, I relate more to heroes with secret id's than I do ones with public id's, and I think that's part of the point too. They want to make some aspect of the hero's life appear at least mostly normal and familiar to the reader. The public id'd super hero frequently reminds me too much of celebrities, and we get more than enough celebrity life crap elsewhere.

edited 16th Aug '15 10:24:57 AM by Robbery

I thought Daredevil had his identity revealed recently. Also Kamala Khan has let at least a couple of her friends in on her secret, which is something.

When you think about it, Marvel's recent phasing out of secret identities is similar to a drawn-out version of the classic pulp storyline.

Secret identities began with The Scarlet Pimpernel and Zorro. In both these cases, the secret identity was a plot device used to facilitate a twist partway through - namely that the foppish lord is actually a badass hero. The secret identity didn't stay secret, because it wasn't really integral to the character as those of modern superheroes often are.

Regarding Batman, Moviebob did an analysis recently, and he makes the point that the real issue with Batman isn't the money in and of itself, but rather the mismatch between Batman's solo series and teamups. When in the same month he can fight and hold his own against alien gods on Apokolips while having trouble beating up a non-powered clown in Gotham, it creates an inconsistency.

Furthermore, the Justice League being funded by Batman's wealth made sense back when it was mainly a social club for superheroes; in those days, Bruce Wayne could reasonably afford to buy a few office buildings for the heroes to coordinate their activities while not being rich enough to single-handedly solve all of Gotham's social problems. Nowadays, when the Justice League has hundreds of members, multiple satellites, spaceships, and communication networks, all with significant non-superhero staff, you'd think he could come up with a few million dollars to build a new, non-terrible mental hospital with decent security so the maniacs don't keep getting sent to Arkham.

With that in minds, let's compare Batman to Iron Man. Both are non-powered but very rich, very intelligent men who use their money to buy crime-fighting gear. That money is also used to fund their respective universes' premier superhero teams. (Well, the Avengers are government-sponsored these days, but until about the turn of the millennium, they were a private group funded by Tony Stark. I could be wrong, but didn't the government step in around the time Tony stopped pretending he wasn't Iron Man?)

Anyway, as I've already mentioned, Batman's solo titles tend to stay in one city, with threats not usually affecting more than Gotham, and often even just a small part of the city. In contrast, Iron Man's solo villains are usually on a bigger scale, threatening all of America if not the world. Hence, if in one month Iron Man is helping the Avengers fight off a Kree invasion, while in his own title is trying to stop the Mandarin from stealing a bunch of gamma bombs, it makes more sense, because Iron Man is always about the big threats. Batman, on the other hand, should not have trouble dealing with Scarecrow or Poison Ivy if he can go toe-to-toe with Darkseid.

So, back to the question of whether Batman should stop being Bruce Wayne altogether. Indiana brought up the Phantom, but the situation there is pretty different. The Phantom is a legacy character, while Batman isn't (with the possible exception of this board's own DC/Marvel merged universe project). I don't think it strains belief too much that he might be able to acquire basic detective skills from non-traditional sources, and if it's been long enough since his origin, he could reasonably become a good detective simply by practice and experience.

Likewise for scientific knowledge, in the real world, the majority of hackers and programmers are self-taught, so I don't object to Batman acquiring the skills necessary to hack academic publishers in order to get papers for free (plus it's good to see bad things happen to Elsevier, if only in fiction).

But discarding his civilian identity altogether? I think that's going a bit far. He does need to pay for his equipment somehow, after all.

Yeah, there is the point that if Batman's ID was public, if he pissed off the government or something they could just freeze his assets. I'm actually surprised that's never been done to Tony Stark...

It has.

I'd say the Goldilocks zone would be for the Wayne estate to rate in the millions rather than billions, sustained mostly by passive investments. And if everyone thought Bruce Wayne is already dead, there'd be no suspicion leading to it, so no government intervention either. Apart from the Bat-mobile (which is another grandfatherly invention that simply wouldn't fly nowadays), most of the gadgets he uses aren't the big budget kind, so he can still operate indefinitely on savings interest alone, with little change in style.

Otherwise yeah, the main discrepancy nowadays is between League!Batman and Bat-family!Batman - the gritty urban legend doesn't mesh well with the highly visible public figure whose identity is likely known to some of the shadier government officials, such as Waller.

Strangely enough, for me it's the secret ID heroes that remind me of idealized celebrities with flawlessly chiseled public images, while the Avengers feel more like a rowdy frat-house when off-duty; and the X-Men are literally that - and if anything, they play the "more than I appear" tune best of all.

Which brings me to another point - Batman simply doesn't do off-duty anyway. He hardly interacts with anyone not already sharing his lifestyle. Unlike Peter Parker or even Clark Kent, who still have a life outside the costume, the modern Batman is depressingly single-minded, with Bruce Wayne lacking any function. Thus, there's barely anything to lose from him "dying".

Like I said, it's worth an Elseworld shot, even if it wouldn't take in the main continuity. Then again, given how Superman losing the outside briefs was regarded as a major change, I'm not even sure what would.

There are lot's of reasons to have a superhero with a secret identity. If they're part of an elite counter terrorism unit or otherwise tasked with facing an enemy it would be wise to keep knowledge of their lives off the clock from, for just one instance.

If they're operating as a double agent amongst the enemy or otherwise have to deal with people they're not proud to associate with.

If they are fighting a particularly corrupt and or oppressive regime that they cannot conveniently escape the district of.

If their powers are horrifying to even their benefactors. If my superpower involved turning into a four legged, slimy, six eyed monster incapable of human speech until I turned them off, and any combatants I used them against were also completely inhuman and not part of the human social structure, I might keep that to myself too, or at least ask it to be our little secret if I needed to confide in other humans to get something done that nonetheless required use of those powers.

The superhero might not have a good reputation and might be waiting to clear their name before going public.

Maybe the superhero just wants some privacy and thus creates a civilian identity that they can use eat out and go bowling in. Maybe the superhero is enacting a Secret Test of Character, invoking an Angel Unaware scenario?

The superhero might have already had a secret identify before getting superpowers and doing super heroics. An online alias, a luchador mask. The superhero might not actually have the means to prove they are a superhero.

Well, if Bruce Wayne were declared legally dead, there is the question of what would happen to his money and property. He could arrange to leave it to anyone he wanted, obviously, but that would have it's own problems as well. I would suppose Bruce Wayne's liquid assests are likely in the millions, but I'd say he's probably worth billions when you take into account investments, property, etc.

If secret id's SEEM useless, I think it's only because of the trends of modern comic book storytelling. They do seem to want keep characters involved in gigantic epics all the time, with little breathing space in between. If the character in question does have some kind of life, you don't get to see it very often. Bruce Wayne has always been a mask for Batman, but he did at one time actually DO things. He was active in business and city development, and philanthropic organizations. And, in the tradition of Lamont Cranston and the Shadow, he took an amateur interest in crime...

I can't remember who put it forth (it might have been Grant Morrison) but some writer or another postulated that the super-hero/ secret id bit is actually three-fold. There's the Super-Hero, the Secret ID, and then the Hero (or Heroine) alone. It postulated that the "real" identity was the character alone, or among people who were privy to the secret. There might be vast differences or little difference at all between the identities, but that does seem to be how it breaks down.

There's also the problem that, whenever Bruce isn't holding the reigns, most Waynetech assets seem to fall into the hands of Corrupt Corporate Executives, which ends up doing a lot of harm to Gotham City.

Maybe Bruce should take some time off from punching criminals to do a background audit on his board of directors. It sounds like he needs to get his house in order.

edited 16th Aug '15 1:32:40 PM by TobiasDrake

Honest executives are exceedingly difficult to find anywhere.

Only because people keep hiring business executives to do it. Too much parallel momentum and not enough vertical results in a very limited hiring pool.

I remember when this came up in WITCH, the characters say, "We like having normal lives to come home to!"

depending on the story he kind of is still. francis manapul's run on detective comics has him working with some lady to renew the eastern part of gotham (which is especially bad) with new hospitals, libraries, etc.

unless i'm told otherwise i normally assume bruce is involved with these types of things because he's devoted to making gotham better in and out of the costume.

regarding whether how he'd be able to learn his skills on his own via the internet or whatever, why would that really be necessary? he could just as easily learn them while travelling the world on wayne money like he does in the regular continuity, and then just doctor an accident with a fake corpse to make people think he's dead. not that i'm for getting rid of his civilian identity, i'm just wondering why nobody really seemed to consider that yet.

though learning skills on his own isn't really that implausible if he's established as a prodigy with an incredibly high intellect and capacity for learning, which he logically would have to be anyway to become a master of multiple intellectual and martial disciplines in less than 2 decades.

edited 16th Aug '15 10:46:42 PM by wehrmacht

That's always rather been my thought as well.