Rationalist Note (Death Note rationalist)

There's some obvious works with this premise, "What if _ were a real genius/scientist/philosopher?"

What I want to know is if there's a fic where Light Yagami examines the functions of the DN universe being called into question by the Death Note's very existence. While simultaneously being our favorite crazy serial killer/cult leader.

In other words, any rationalist Death Note fics that keep the main characters fairly in-character?

• How "rationalist" can you make Death Note without spoiling the plot?

edited 10th Aug '15 11:55:21 AM by Soble

I think the problem with this premise is that, to have it work, you need to have some kind of serious sociopathy at best. I mean, it's a book that only function is killing people. You need Human Sacrifice just to experiment with the book.

Most "rationalist" I could see to have really severe hangups with this alone. Making a rationalist approach on it only makes them seems to have Lack of Empathy at best.

Technically, you don't have to consider life sacred if you are a rationalist. But anyone from that community would want to send "I'm a good person" signals, so Death Note wouldn't be the best place to signal that.

That said, people have tried it.

• https://m.fanfiction.net/s/9380249/1/Rationalising-Death

a perfect rationalist probably would lack empathy anyway. computers don't empathize.

to be a rationalist and desire to continue living within society, you must first present a good argument that being part of society is beneficial to the rationalist.

It'd probably have to have a better title than that.

Yeah.... Straw Vulcan is not a rationalist.

seems like you don't understand what a Straw Vulcan is.

a Straw Vulcan is someone who actually acts illogically because the author is trying to "prove" that emotional beings are actually better than pure logic.

So yes, you would have to prove that supporting and participating in society would be beneficial to a perfect rationalist. a Straw Vulcan would say some bullshit like "society is merely a construct without empirical basis and is therefore illogical" or some bullshit like that and swear off society completely.

edited 9th Aug '15 9:26:21 PM by willyolio

No you don't. There's nothing irrational about caring about the world outside your head or about holding something as important than you.

and you, too, are using the Straw Vulcan to debunk the rationalist.

No, there isn't anything irrational to care about things other than yourself. But it's also not irrational to not care. What you need is a reason. that's what rationality is about.

edited 10th Aug '15 10:08:59 AM by willyolio

The problem is, even the most "logical" things still will be peppered with something... human. Hormones, learned behavior and values and such pretty much ensures that, especially in time of crisis, that simple logic get thrown out of window by the most strong arguments: "Because I want/ have to".

At some point that recursion has to bottom out, and I really doubt that it does at self interest alone.

We have no more reason to throw out empathy than to throw out self interest.

Rationality is about winning it's about getting things the way you want. We can try not to care about something if it's getting in the way or the whole reason we care became a mute point, but it just isn't strategic to stop caring for the sake of making our values simpler.

A paperclip maximizer has no reason for it's preferences at all. It doesn't need any. It's safe to assume that having those values will lead to more paperclips than not.

computer's lack of empathy has nothing to do with their rationality, and their often stupid anyways.

edited 10th Aug '15 7:59:52 PM by supermerlin100

This strikes me as a bit of an odd idea. Light is nothing if not a thinker. I don't think he's the poster boy for rationalism (far from it), but he's definitely not someone who doesn't think things through. He was very thorough in experimenting with the Death Note, for one thing.

Of course, I'm hardly an expert on this sort of thing; I just thought I'd throw in my two cents.

I say Straw Vulcan because "I need a reason to value X." is an irrational claim. As mentioned, the recursion (why value rationality?) has to end at some point.

The word "rationalist", in this context, means "person who values true and direct processes to promote their other values". Such a person may or may not value society. But that does not derive from being a rationalist. Being a rationalist merely affects how they react and solve problems. It is one value amoung a collection of other values.

L values solving difficult mysteries more than society or individual lives. Light values a smoothly working society more than he values individual lives. Neither character needs to be a rationalist to lack empathy — they already lacked it. Light's date to trick Ray Penbare from his name is a great example of faking empathy to fit into society.

n/a

edited 15th Aug '15 7:24:53 PM by Soble