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Not Tropeworthy: Protagonist Title

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shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#1: May 7th 2015 at 8:00:17 PM

This list is almost entirely ZC Es. It's amazingly boring to read, and apparently conveys no information worth mentioning to the reader.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Madrugada Zzzzzzzzzz Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: In season
Zzzzzzzzzz
#2: May 7th 2015 at 8:27:33 PM

Well, it is the assumption underlying the Protagonist Title Fallacy, so I don't think it's a good idea to cut it completely, but I think it would probably serve that purpose just as well as an example-less definition page that doesn't allow wicking.

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#3: May 7th 2015 at 8:40:27 PM

Yeah agree there, chop the examples. But why is Protagonist Title Fallacy YMMV? It is 'a work is named after a character and that character is not the protag of the work' right? That isn't YMMV at all.

shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#4: May 7th 2015 at 8:44:53 PM

^ Because it requires an assumption on the part of the reader that the title actually names the protagonist and not an item, the antagonist, a setting...

Most titles aren't the name of the protagonist and the assumption isn't that they are. There's no requirement that a Protagonist Title Fallacy has to be the name of a character at all.

edited 7th May '15 8:46:28 PM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
crazysamaritan NaNo 4328 / 50,000 from Lupin III Since: Apr, 2010
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
#5: May 7th 2015 at 9:01:37 PM

an example-less definition page
I believe it is tropeworthy, although it is common enough that I don't think we need to list examples. The examples themselves aren't often interesting, unless there's another factor in play.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#6: May 7th 2015 at 9:12:03 PM

[up][up] I guess so. I personally just assume that any Character Title would be a Protagonist Title as standard and the examples seem to be that.

EDIT: Character Title is one for the example chop list too.

edited 7th May '15 9:27:32 PM by Memers

AnotherDuck No, the other one. from Stockholm Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Mu
No, the other one.
#7: May 7th 2015 at 10:05:26 PM

I don't think it's cuttable, and I don't think the examples lacking context is reason to remove them. In most cases, unlike other tropes, there's context in the actual title of the work. The most important context, even.

Whether it's boring to read is subjective and thus completely irrelevant.

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Willbyr Hi (Y2K) Relationship Status: With my statistically significant other
Hi
#8: May 8th 2015 at 6:07:31 AM

Make it a Trivia item.

MagBas Mag Bas from In my house Since: Jun, 2009
#9: May 8th 2015 at 8:28:48 AM

[up]Trivia is when something is outside the work. Both the fact that a character is The Protagonist and the title of work are in the work.

[up][up] The name of the character is not sufficient context. Antagonist Title have not the same ZCE problem, despite their examples having the same level of context in the name of their works, because the examples in question at least mention that the character in question is the antagonist.

AnotherDuck No, the other one. from Stockholm Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Mu
No, the other one.
#10: May 8th 2015 at 8:49:09 AM

[up]In other words, it's a problem that can be solved with a different solution than not being arsed to do anything and just getting rid of it?

edited 8th May '15 8:51:02 AM by AnotherDuck

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DiamondWeapon Since: Jan, 2001
#11: May 8th 2015 at 12:10:09 PM

[up][up]Antagonist Title demonstrates the result of demanding something be put after the name of the work, even if there is nothing more to be said. In many cases the "context" is just stating the obvious ("same-name-as-the-work is the Big Bad") or going off on a tangent (the name of the protagonist being a common one).

In my opinion, if there is nothing to be explained about the relationship of the title and the character (the title is just the character's name), writing something extra just to have a longer example is not an improvement.

eroock Since: Sep, 2012
#12: May 10th 2015 at 4:25:47 PM

We have ZCE index categories like Films of the 1950s. How would they relate to a category of title indices as this one?

Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#13: May 10th 2015 at 4:29:42 PM

Indexes are for sorting of works like sorting by decade, genre, creator, trope types and so on. They are mostly ok for ZC Es because is all about the sorting and not an actual trope.

This isn't really an index worthy page as it doesn't really sort any of those and being named after the protagonist isn't worthy of that any of that.

edited 10th May '15 6:00:46 PM by Memers

crazysamaritan NaNo 4328 / 50,000 from Lupin III Since: Apr, 2010
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
#14: May 10th 2015 at 7:35:36 PM

True; this is a meta- Naming Conventions trope. One naming convention for works is to name it after a character ( Character Title). More specifically, works named for their main character.

edited 10th May '15 7:37:25 PM by crazysamaritan

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
Karxrida The Unknown from Eureka, the Forbidden Land Since: May, 2012 Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
The Unknown
#15: Dec 16th 2015 at 11:43:49 PM

Make it an examples-less defintion page that doesn't allow wicking.

Basically what Mad said in post 2.

edited 16th Dec '15 11:44:02 PM by Karxrida

If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with?
Willbyr Hi (Y2K) Relationship Status: With my statistically significant other
Hi
#17: Dec 17th 2015 at 6:35:04 AM

Sounds like we need a crowner on this one. We've got cut, exampleless definition page...anything else for options?

Prfnoff Since: Jan, 2001
#18: Dec 17th 2015 at 1:12:26 PM

I see no grounds for disallowing examples of Protagonist Title. Those are for tropes which really are ubiquitous or tend too much towards Flame Bait.

Besides, the repair of Character Title is still ongoing; this being a major subtrope, it should remain at least for the moment.

shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#19: Dec 17th 2015 at 1:49:45 PM

An alternate plan would be to make an example rubric for this one saying that you need to give:

  • The name of the work
  • The name of the protagonist.
  • What qualifies that specific person as the main protagonist.
  • (Optional) Explain how the title and the protagonist relate if it isn't immediately obvious.

Ex.: Fullmetal Alchemist is about the journies of Edward Eldrich who earns the title of Full Metal Alchemist upon becoming a state alchemist.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
DoctorCooper Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
crazysamaritan NaNo 4328 / 50,000 from Lupin III Since: Apr, 2010
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
#21: Dec 21st 2015 at 7:46:29 PM

Only Gallium said it isn't tropeworthy. Some of us question if it is example-worthy, much like The Hero.

edited 21st Dec '15 7:48:25 PM by crazysamaritan

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
YasminPerry Since: May, 2015
#22: Dec 24th 2015 at 7:50:56 AM

IMHO, the examples should be deleted, with a short description and a note to not add examples. Like this:

Naming titles after their protagonists is one of the most popular title conventions in fiction, to the point that when a title isn't named the main character, everybody will assume they're the main character even though they're not. As this is so common, avoid adding examples to this page. See also yada yada yada. Compare to yada yada yada.

edited 24th Dec '15 8:37:29 AM by YasminPerry

Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#23: Dec 24th 2015 at 8:27:38 AM

I could get behind that.

Berrenta How sweet it is from Texas Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
How sweet it is
#24: Dec 24th 2015 at 8:35:05 AM

I can get behind that. [tup]

she/her | TRS needs your help! | Contributor of Trope Report
Karxrida The Unknown from Eureka, the Forbidden Land Since: May, 2012 Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
The Unknown
#25: Dec 24th 2015 at 1:53:29 PM

Me Too!

If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with?

Total posts: 32
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