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Medinoc Chaotic Greedy from France Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Chaotic Greedy
#376: Jul 28th 2016 at 12:10:15 AM

 I'm afraid no one matching that description will come out of any party that is not left-wing (that doesn't include the PS, they've betrayed pretty much every left-wing ideal there is).

[up]Uhm, are you having a multiple negatives problem here?

edited 28th Jul '16 12:12:03 AM by Medinoc

"And as long as a sack of shit is not a good thing to be, chivalry will never die."
Julep Since: Jul, 2010
#377: Jul 28th 2016 at 12:37:17 AM

[up]X3 He is already doing it, in a way. He is LR's president, which means that the party pays his bills (meetings, transportation...) as long as he is doing his job of president. Being a candidate to the primaries is not a president's job...which is why he has not officially said he will be a candidate yet, even though everything he does proves that he will.

Meanwhile, everyone else has to fund their campaign.

Khudzlin Since: Nov, 2013
#378: Jul 28th 2016 at 2:59:21 AM

[up][up] Maybe. For those who don't already know my opinion on the subject (I've posted it in this thread already, and I'm sure we've discussed it IRL, Medinoc), I don't include the PS in left-wing parties.

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#379: Jul 28th 2016 at 3:34:31 AM

Maybe they should change their name to "Les Démocrates". I'm only half-joking. I certainly think they must change their name. They are unworthy of it.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Zarastro Since: Sep, 2010
#380: Jul 28th 2016 at 5:56:24 AM

I wonder how long France plans to uphold the state of emergency? Until the next presidential elections? As long as Isis exists? They are setting a bad precedence there which a potential future FN president could exploit.

Also, I' found this interesting article. Whether or not the thesis of the autor will be validated in the future is of course not certain, but I do believe he has a point.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/how-angela-merkels-open-door-immigration-policy-protects-germany-from-terrorism-in-the-long-run-a7156756.html

Khudzlin Since: Nov, 2013
#381: Jul 28th 2016 at 6:28:54 AM

I agree with this article. The "War on Terror" only fuels more hate and so drives more people into terrorist organizations. However, welcoming refugees is not enough, they need to be given a chance to integrate and not be relegated into ghettos. The major problem with French banlieues is economic and Hollande's right-wing policy on that front is only going to make things worse, especially compounded with maintaining the state of emergency.

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#382: Jul 28th 2016 at 6:30:42 AM

Apparently there's an even worse problem with remote banlieues, populated by white people when fuel was cheap, and where they are now trapped. Apparently that's where the FN finds its base. Is there any truth to that hypothesis?

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Khudzlin Since: Nov, 2013
#383: Jul 28th 2016 at 7:16:57 AM

The problem sounds plausible, especially for remote banlieues with poor (or no) access to public transportation. It also sounds plausible that the FN would try to recruit among people affected by that problem. Beyond that, I have no idea whether it's true.

Medinoc Chaotic Greedy from France Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Chaotic Greedy
#384: Jul 28th 2016 at 7:19:00 AM

That's the "gentrification" thing, right?

"And as long as a sack of shit is not a good thing to be, chivalry will never die."
Julep Since: Jul, 2010
#385: Jul 28th 2016 at 9:06:40 AM

Apparently there's an even worse problem with remote banlieues, populated by white people when fuel was cheap, and where they are now trapped. Apparently that's where the FN finds its base. Is there any truth to that hypothesis?

That's not a "banlieue" issue per se. FN strives in two areas of France: the Northeast, and the Southeast.

The Southeast historically was a left-wing region (yeah I didn't believe it either when I read it the first time) until the 50's. Then came the Algerian war, and independence, followed by the Pieds-Noirs returning to France through the main harbours on the Mediterranean sea - Marseille, Toulon, Nice. Many started living there, and let's just say that they don't have the best opinion of Muslim people.

The Northeast also was a left-wing/communist bastion back in the day when mining and ironworks were striving industries. But when the industry collapsed, many people were left without a job, which the FN ended up exploiting in the last 15 years by incorrectly pointing out that foreigners were there to steal their jobs.

There are "white communities" that very much vote FN, but those are the small villages. I don't think there is a thing such as a "white banlieue" in France - mixed, yes, but not white (there are people with foreign origins in all major cities in France - after all, their parents or grandparents came there to do the work French people did not want to do, and that is a kind of work you find absolutely everywhere). The "white banlieues" are the very rich ones, and they don't vote FN, they vote LR (because the FN's economic program would be a disaster).

[up] The "gentrification" is something different. It happens when a working-class or low-wages area in a city starts getting populated by richer people ("Bobos", typically, who are rich enough to have a bourgeois way of life but do not want to), increasing the cost of life and slowly but surely driving away the poor until only the rich remain. Typically, this is the case with Paris' Vth Arrondissement which historically was populated by students (since many big schools and universities - La Sorbonne, the Pierre & Marie Curie University, the ENS, the agronomy institute of Grignon, the high schools Louis-Le-Grand, Henri-IV or Saint-Louis... - were located nearby). Nowadays, it is the most expensive place in Paris if you want to rent. The only reason it is not called "gentrification" is because it happened before the term was coined.

edited 28th Jul '16 9:12:16 AM by Julep

Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#386: Aug 25th 2016 at 9:28:12 PM

Crossposting from the Islamophobia thread:

Sarkozy has just said that he would make the burkini ban national if he is elected President in 2017 Front National wins.

I Need a Freaking Drink, and it's only noon...

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#387: Aug 25th 2016 at 11:33:55 PM

edited 25th Aug '16 11:34:11 PM by TheHandle

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
DrDougsh Since: Jan, 2001
#388: Aug 26th 2016 at 12:28:18 AM

Isn't there still some hope that he'll lose the LR primaries? I'm not seeing any recent polls anywhere.

Julep Since: Jul, 2010
#389: Aug 26th 2016 at 4:53:21 AM

The polls had Juppé as the favorite, but it was back when Sarkozy wasn't officially a candidate (read: since he was president of the party, he could use the party's funds for his not-campaign). I assume that he will get a bump now that he is back in the media.

Also, Sarkozy holds the party, he put a puppet (a very nasty, backstabbing, soulless puppet - Laurent Wauquiez) as his replacement for president, and is likely to try every trick in the book to have the primaries shift towards him. Juppé is more popular than him in the population as a whole, but among LR members, not so sure. Officially, everyone can vote in the primaries, but the fee is significant.

I (a left-wing man) am still undecided whether I will vote or not, because while I won't go for Juppé in the first round, I know right now that in the event of a Sarkozy vs Le Pen 2nd round, I will not vote.

Finally, since all candidates have declared now, new polls should come soon. No one cares for politics during the summer, and most politicians take a break from the media anyway because no one reads the news.

edited 26th Aug '16 4:54:28 AM by Julep

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#390: Aug 26th 2016 at 7:28:21 AM

[up]Vote blank if you have to, but go to the polls!

It's been sixteen years and it's still all the same shit.

edited 26th Aug '16 7:31:17 AM by TheHandle

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#391: Aug 26th 2016 at 7:40:58 AM

[up]

It's been sixteen years and it's still all the same shit.

So which of the three Left-Wing Partiesnote  would you support?

edited 26th Aug '16 7:43:20 AM by Greenmantle

Keep Rolling On
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#392: Aug 26th 2016 at 8:32:50 AM

I'm more of a Les Verts man, myself. I'm pretty far-left economically and anti-authoritarian socially, but I do not get along with the heirs of traditional labour movements; I often find them illiberal, bigoted, and obnoxiously nostalgic.

edited 26th Aug '16 8:34:03 AM by TheHandle

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Julep Since: Jul, 2010
#393: Aug 26th 2016 at 12:39:39 PM

Les Verts tend to be the party with which I agree the most with. But its management is so bad it has become comical. There was a Guignols sketch showing the leaders unable to agree on anything (including the color of the party), and that pretty much sums up the truth.

The "real left" right now can be surprisingly sexist and racist when you look at it. Many of them are condescending to a fault towards those who dare to say that some social fights (against sexism, racism, homophobia) are equally as important as the grrrrreat class struggle.

edited 26th Aug '16 12:40:00 PM by Julep

DrDougsh Since: Jan, 2001
#394: Aug 27th 2016 at 3:30:15 AM

A poll for the LR primaries post-Sarkozy's official candidature is out. Sarkozy is still trailing Juppé. Actually, he seems to be doing worse now than before he declared his candidacy.

edited 27th Aug '16 3:36:46 AM by DrDougsh

Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#395: Aug 27th 2016 at 8:23:50 AM

*shrug*

Well, we'll see whether his claim to push the burkini ban nationwide will hurt or help him in the polls soon enough...

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
Antiteilchen In the pursuit of great, we failed to do good. Since: Sep, 2013
In the pursuit of great, we failed to do good.
#396: Aug 27th 2016 at 6:50:43 PM

Many of them are condescending to a fault towards those who dare to say that some social fights (against sexism, racism, homophobia) are equally as important as the grrrrreat class struggle.
That has always been a problem with all kinds of socialists. A mixture of the Appeal to Worse Problems, and the belief that tackling bigottery is divisive. Similar to how the right wing views bringing up social justice.

Ogodei Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers from The front lines Since: Jan, 2011
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
#397: Aug 27th 2016 at 9:39:24 PM

It's part of the belief that solving the class struggle will resolve all other problems and that, like you said, talking about social justice is a distraction because it can cut across class lines which is a big no-no.

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#398: Aug 28th 2016 at 1:48:17 AM

That's exactly their reasoning. Which is why Marriage For All was so unpopular. "WE HAVE MORE IMPORTANT THINGS TO WORRY ABOUT THAN THE LOVE LIVES OF 1% OF THE POPULATION! THESE SKEWED PRIORITIES ARE SO BOURGEOIS AND LEISURELY!"

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Julep Since: Jul, 2010
#399: Aug 29th 2016 at 4:30:03 AM

The main difference is that the (far-)right-wing publicly admits that they dont give a F about social justice, while the (far-)left-wing claims to support social justice, except not now, not today, no, sorry, there are some other things to do, how do you dare think that your problems are worse than the ones I decided are the most important?

I mean, at least the racist douchebags are straightforward.

Anyway, two polls were released the same day. One (incidentally, ordered by right-wing newspaper Le Figaro whose owner is a Sarkoboy) said that Juppé & Sarkozy are tied in the first round at 34-34, and Juppé leads in the second round 55-45. The other (ordered by not-really-left-wing-but-not-quite-as-right-wing-as-Le-Fig Le Parisien) says that Juppé leads Sarkozy 38-24 in the first round and 63-37 in the second round.

Note that in both cases, Bruno Le Maire is third with respectively 17 and 15% of the votes - and Le Maire is much closer to Juppé than he is to Sarkozy, which will matter when voters have to pick in the second round.

Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#400: Aug 29th 2016 at 8:40:25 AM

Crossposting from the Islamophobia thread:

A Michelin-starred restaurant in France refused service to Muslim customers because "all Muslims are terrorists".

It would appear that the chef is now in full cover-my-own-ass mode. Seems like the "I don't actually believe what I'm saying, it's just ironic" defense is popping up in real life now...

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot

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