We just witnessed three telepaths puppetting people into killing themselves. In terms of large-scale damage, they might just decide to walk into the White House, use the Nuclear Launch codes and start WWIII.
I have no sympathy for Sentinel Services, but if you consider them like enemy soldiers, then you shouldn't engage in war crimes by having them killed while the situation is under your control. The trio was obviously in charge as soon as the collars got deactivated, they could have forced everyone to throw their weapons away and piss off while leaving the mutants. Killing about twenty enemy agents is meaningless in the grand scheme of things, so in terms of strategy it amounts to a sustained sequence of dog-kicking.
Especially when those agents were enforcing a measure which, while not good in any way, pretty much amounted to showing that there were lines they did not cross. In terms of moral ambiguity, that episode was a true masterpiece really.
They could have left the SS agents alive, maybe, but they weren't obligated to. It's not as if the agents had surrendered. Successfulyy winning a battle where your forces are stronger is not, in and of itself, a war crime.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
SS had already crossed the line by handing the mutants over to be tortured and brainwashed, and experimented upon to develop a genocidal weapon. The scene with murdering Dreamer to make the twins use their powers is practically a carbon copy of the one which begins X Men First Class, where Magneto's mother is murdered to force him to use his powers - except that the latter scene occurs in Auschwitz. The show is way past the time when any allowances should be made for the human US government.
In terms of how a society should deal with young mutants learning to control their powers: for the most part, what we've seen has been property damage. The best answer would be to have it covered by insurance; the cost of the damages is far less than the benefits mutants could provide if they were integrated into the economy as equal citizens. Criminalizing accidents effectively criminalizes being a mutant, as typically at least a little training and practice is needed to get a handle on one's powers.
edited 16th Dec '17 7:35:35 PM by Galadriel
Foreign Troper
It's not like they gave them a CHANCE to surrender. Fact is, they had them completely at their mercy.
And saying that every last person working there deserves to die is like saying that every last german back after WW 2 deserved to die.
And yeah, comparing Mutants to actual real life minorities only works to a certain extent, as black people, jews etc don't have powers that could destroy thousands in the blink of an eye.
I mean look, I am rooting for the Mutant Underground, I totally do. And Dr. Campbell is hands down a total monster. But that doesn't mean that everybody on the Goverment's side is too.
And that also doesn't mean that what the Cuckoos did was right. Hell, even Marcos was horrified.
Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
The torture (and Sonia's murder) were made by Trask. Not Sentinel Services. Turner was very reluctant to work with Trask early on, and only resorted to do so after he was himself subjected to torture by mutants (sure, that was not done willingly on Sonia's part, but the MU was still probing his mind, and if being forced to live through the death of your only child does not qualify as torture, nothing does). Even then, it took a single visit from the Struckers for him to realize that he had crossed a line and to get the prisoners back.
And he is Sentinel Services - he is one of the two named members of Sentinel Services we know of. I am not arguing that he or SS are good, but he is definitely not the kind of person who deserves to be shot on sight, and neither are the people working with him or under him.
Ouch. Shit's goin' down.
In Esme's defense, her fellow sisters were in all likelihood being tortured, and considering their psychic connection, well, do the math.
If nothing else, I hope that doctor gets ripped apart in the worst possible way.
Foreign Troper
I was just about to sympathize with the Cuckoos...and then they revealed they tipped off Sentinel Services, getting dozens of innocent mutants captured.
No, fuck them.
Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Takat Empress
Think we'll get another season before the deal with Fox goes into full effect?
Mileena Madness
I sure hope this show gets a special pass, because that's by far the most interesting new superhero show in a while (although I never got into Legion but I heard it is good too). Much better than the most recent MCU TV opportunities, including Punisher.
Anyone can hazard a guess as to who the Cuckoos' boss is? I am not familiar with the roster there, but if I had to guess I would say Prodigy. Except he is listed as "William" on IMDB and the only mutant that fits that name is Wiccan, who is neither black nor a HC member.
Foreign Troper
I sincerely HOPE that it is not an Age Lift'ed version of that black kid from the annoying Hellfire Brats (Manuel Enduque I think was his name).
Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
I love what the Cuckoos add here. The creepy way they talk, the continuing manipulation, and now that we've learned more about them, there are more questions than ever. Love it.
As for the whole thing with Disney, I'm more worried about Fox's tendency to cancel shows.
Also, can we talk about how cool the combining powers thing is? Has this been done before in the comics? Because I feel like it's a really fresh, interesting concept with a ton of potential. What happens when you combine Cyclops and Nightcrawler's powers? Laser beams out of nowhere. Iceman plus Gambit? Ice grenades.
It really feels like the show was made with the intention of 18 episodes. Structurally, it doesn't feel like the episode before the finale, but I guess we'll see.
Oh yeah.
I wonder how many episodes it'll be? If 13 runs past Christmas, I think they should make it either 10 or 18.
Foreign Troper
YES!
Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
I remember them saying that they want an Exiles series. So I worry if we’ll see a MCU crossover with Runaways or something.
Tonight's the two part Season Finale.
Well, that happened.
Andy, Polaris, and a whole bunch just bailed to start a new Hellfire Club with the Cuckoos. (Yeah, I wanted Esme to shut her trap when she was screwing with Polaris.)
The issue with Magneto and The Brotherhood has usually been, you can understand their motivations most of the time. However, often their methods just make it EASIER for their enemies to paint all mutants as "evil violent monsters" and use it as justification for more persecution. Also it tends to turn public opinion as well.
I suspect that similar things will happen here with Lorna and co as well.
Overall good finale. The only thing that I didn't really like was Lorna's change of outfits. I kind of rolled my eyes when I saw that.
edited 15th Jan '18 11:43:46 PM by Punisher286
The Mad Doctor
It's the closest thing wel'll ever get to an evil costume switch.
I have to say, the Underground, for all their resourcefulness, was pretty ineffectual. Absolutely nothing that they did was to improve the situation they were facing. At best, they were treading water. They had the wrong strategy. Nothing they did to or about Campbell was going to stop the Hound program. What they should have done was gather all the evidence they could about his atrocities and leak it to the public. The last episode would have us believe that a strong majority of the country are not "purity" supporters, so exposing Trask should have been by far their most effective move.
edited 17th Jan '18 8:50:55 PM by Montegoraon
Foreign Troper
One can discuss the ethics of killing Campbell, but the Frost sisters still got dozens of mutants captured and possibly experimented on or killed solely to manipulate the Underground into joining them.
They are scum.
Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
The Mad Doctor
By the power vested in me through my studies at Necro U, I revive this thread!
... oh, and here's the trailer for the Gifted Season 2 from Comic Con
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REO2otlUp0w
Takat Empress
Kinda glad it is the Hellfire Club and not Magneto with his Brohood again.
Mileena Madness
Foreign Troper
So a lot of people dyed their hair
Great trailer. Really excited to see how far all the ex-Underground mutants are willing to go, especially Polaris and Andy.
The Gifted is my favorite superhero series.
Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Deliberate abuse of mutant powers is not much of a threat - The amount of ways to inflict large scale mayhem available to regular homo sapiens is nearly limitless. But people do not, in the normal course of events try to light the world on fire. The real threat is that they are alienated. Secondary problem is that even in a society that did not do that, many of them have crappy control - I mean, it would actually be pretty interesting to see what it would look like to try and have sensible policies re: mutants, rather than knee-jerk responses that are obviously going to end no where good. Does everyone with an x gene live in the village of fire-works-plant architecture (earthen berms, nothing that can burn.) until they have manifested their powers and learned to no, you know, burn places down in the event of a nightmare?