Complaining: Internet Counterattack

It seems a little bit odd to me that this page is allowed to collect examples considering its nature and our rules on importing drama. The examples section is ultimately just a history of online drama and the things that caused it, which, while potentially interesting, is not particularly related to the mission of the wiki. I propose an example sectionomy, leaving the rest of the article to define the term and preserve the inbounds, but the examples seem too much like drama.

Personally, I wouldn't mind if we went through it and found any In-Universe examples, Jay And Silent Bob Strike Back had a similar subplot if I'm remembering correctly. (I might not, I saw it once in theatres.)

I'll look at the wicks later to see whether there are any In-Universe entries.

It is a pretty volatile trope. Maybe if only a few well documented real world examples are at the top and the rest is fictional examples. Not that common in fiction yet but Hollywood will catch up in time.

Shame really, I liked this page.

Maybe add a limit to how recent real life based events have to be before we let them stay up? I do like reading what people consider to be an "outrage" worthy of making the entire internet crash down on them, but considering the Feminist Frequency/Gamergate mess and the fact that we seem to be having some edit warring about it even here (glancing at the page history) makes me think it should be mediated to incidents that have definitively ended, and not ongoing fallout.

I agree with Nara on this. I'm thinking a limit of at least one year after the incident has stopped making so much noise.

Seconding Nara Numas's suggestion.

That's an interesting idea...I like it.

But what about things people are still mad over, like Mega Man Legends 3? I still see complaints about it and it's been 2 years!

I like the idea of a reverse statute of limitations, as it were (it seems to be helping on Never Live It Down), but I think it needs to be longer than 1 year. Some last longer than that. I'd also ask, do we count from when it started or from when it finally (mostly) died down/was supplanted by a new one?

edited 23rd Sep '14 10:07:51 AM by Madrugada

@ Lalalei; Ideally, this is how I'd regard things like MML 3 that people are still feeling burned by and complain about; take a look at the passion for it that the internet is showing and gauge what the likelihood for vandalism/edit warring/opinionated natter.

People are still burned about the Legends 3 mess, but you won't see people jumping onto the page and replacing the entire Capcom sub-entry with "Capcom is the devil" like you'd see people viciously attacking/defending Sarkeesian or Gamergate

The only main problem is that people (being people) would still try to put recent-ish or unresolved issues, which means mods and tropers who frequent the page would have to hound it often, which could lead to other issues if the people whose examples you take down are... less than favorable about the rules for the page.

edited 23rd Sep '14 12:50:02 PM by NaraNumas

Oh, Capcom does still get a lot of complaints on the wiki. I reported just another instance of it yesterday, so to speak.

Here's my plan, see if we all agree. Remove the more volatile entries and tidy up any existing ones then lock the page while any big messes are going on. And make sure to not at the top of the page to not add any recent ho-haws.

edited 23rd Sep '14 2:40:41 PM by Euan2000

Shoot, there is all kinds of Examples Are Not Recent issues going on there as well. Pretty obv people are getting het up about a thing and them immediate coming to TVT to bitch about it.

And that's the exact opposite of what we want.

I'd also agree with the no recent Real Life examples allowed. And I'd count that from when it seems to die down. Whether a year or a few doesn't really matter to me, though.

For the record, I can get behind waiting a certain amount of time after things die down before adding them as an example. Considering how fast things move on the internet, I figure a year is probably enough, but if people want to wait longer to be on the safe side, that's totally fine.

So, are we in agreement? I don't know how many Yays or Nays it takes to make a decision on something like this, I guess it's in the hands of a mod now?

edited 29th Sep '14 12:59:44 AM by NaraNumas

I think that as long as it allows Real Life examples at all, people are still going to want to come here to post about their pet controversies — many of these things are, by their nature, both highly contentious and the sort of thing that users are determined to post as much as possible in order to advance their internet crusade.

I don't feel a reverse statue of limitations will help — I can think of stuff from years ago that would still cause massive arguments.

I'd say limit it to in-universe examples. We don't have examples on Internet Backdraft, and it feels like with some of the arguments, people have just moved stuff from there to here to get around that.

I tend to agree. Many real-life examples would be far too contentious, even years after the event.

I'd be in favour of axing it completely. It's not really on-mission, and... hmm, how to put this politely? Many entries border on conspiracy theories (poor or one-sided fact-checking) and tacitly condoning the counterattacks. As others said, it also tends to import drama. I don't really like the idea of giving people a soapbox for these kinds of things.

In essence, I think this is a negative thing to have on the Wiki.

EDIT: If cutting the page is a no-go, as I seem to recall is usually the case, then I'd be in favour of axing the examples and keeping the definition, like we've done with some other articles I can't recall right now.

edited 2nd Oct '14 3:22:59 AM by Whitecroc

to an Example Sectionectomy, if not a complete cut

edited 2nd Oct '14 4:08:35 AM by tryrar

I can live with an Example Sectionectomy, but what I wonder is, are there any examples in works that could be used rather than all RL examples?

I can see some In-Universe examples in the wicks, yeah.

I say no to a cut but I can understand removing the real world examples. (bar maybe a mention of SOPA in the intro maybe). The page will be a lot shorter but it'll be less of a mess.