On the morality of alcohol

Right now, I'm drinking Belgian beer brewed by Trappist monks, the proceeds of which will go to "social aid", according to the bottle.

There you go, drinking for a good cause.

More seriously, here's an observation: people who get shitfaced tend to do so with alcoholic drinks that could charitably be described as tasting like piss, whereas people whose drinks are of better quality tend not to get annihilated every time they have a few. As to how that pertains to the alcohol industry, I don't think it's reasonable or fair to compare something like Carlsberg Special Brew to, say, Chimay Blue. One is a cheap way of not remembering the previous night and wrecking your liver, and the other - whilst admittedly strong - is to be sipped and appreciated.

There's something to be said for a Friday night when the wife and son are away for the weekend, you have a bottle of decent rum and a bottle of Diet Coke, and you have nothing to do the next day. It tastes just fine, and it keeps tasting better as you go on.

I don't need to spend tons of money on "top shelf" liquor to enjoy drinking. Occasionally.

I usually have a glass of wine at dinner, unless there's lots of busy work to do the next day.

Moderation suits me well. I got drunk once while in college, and the next day could have been hell, if it weren't for my old roommate and friend who made me some chicken congee/canja.

Alcohol is not moral or immoral. It depends on how much a person drinks and how said person interacts while drunk. According to friends of mine who witnessed me while I was drunk, I apparently screamed like a banshee and said "wheeeee" all the time (embarassing, I know). Still, I'm thankful I'm not like other people who get drunk and start fighting or trying to pick a fight.

It all depends on how a person acts and how responsible or not said person is.

It's been a long while since I've been truly shitfaced. At least a year, maybe even two.

Surely you either have 'decent rum' or a bottle of diet coke to be put in it.

"I usually have a glass of wine at dinner, unless there's lots of busy work to do the next day." - How BIG is this glass of wine?!

edited 16th Sep '14 6:05:54 PM by Last_Hussar

I admit that I probably drink a little too much on some weekends, though I know my tolerances pretty well and know when to quit before I end up in a total stupor. I usually don't have severe hangovers either (lots of water before bed does wonders) and I only blacked out once (it scared the crap out of me and I haven't gone that far again).

I'm no addict (at least as far as I can tell I don't suffer any negative effects when I'm not drinking and I can easily stop at any point) nor am I aggressive when intoxicated (I actually get more friendly/gregarious when drunk, though I also say stupid, if harmless, shit apparently) so I don't see any personal harm/harm to others caused by my drinking (beyond my own health). My parents and friends (some of whom drink more than I do) are in no way encouraged/enabled to drink by my own drinking, so I don't see any harm being caused there either.

I know what alcohol is capable of doing to people (my dad has a few friends with serious problems) but I/other drinkers have about zero impact when it comes to enabling them. Heck, at least one of these guys has been an alcoholic since before I was born.

As far as abusable substances go I would place alcohol as far more moral than nicotine, due to things like second hand smoke and the like.

So in general I don't really see how one's personal drinking in of itself is harmful to others or enables self destructive behavior among other drinkers. Sure alcohol can lead to horrible health and social consequences but that's hardly universal.

Sorry if this got a bit disorganized.

The main problem isn't people who get drunk on their own but how many getdrunk in public and end up starting fights our getting in car accidents andhhurting others. Generally if your drunk off your ass at home it doesn't bother most people, but out and about and it can endanger others.

The smoking comparison is worthwhile. Though the thing is its a matter of extremes. While you can tell a smoker to shove off if it's bothering you, a drunk driver is not as easily stopped

edited 16th Sep '14 9:40:53 PM by joesolo

It's your average wine cup, no big deal. I don't drink, regardless of the alcohol in it or how it tastes like, when I want to feel 100% focused for next day's work.

It looks like the NHS here even advises against that. I do drink occasionally, but when I do I'm a rambling and rather depressive talker.

Some people say a glass of wine at dinner is good, others say it's bad. In the end, it doesn't really matter to me. What matters is that the wine is good.

edited 17th Sep '14 3:31:54 AM by Quag15

Eh I've always heard a glass of wine with dinners good for you and plenty of those people have lived long lives.

Though we're an Italian family so it might just be a cultural thing

Same thing, but with us being a Portuguese family. And we got a doctor in our family.

edited 17th Sep '14 4:06:02 AM by Quag15

I'm Italian too; and yes, having a glass of wine with dinner is pretty much expected over here, and yes, it is considered good for health (not sure whether this is medically true, I'm not a doctor). And, personally, it does not seem to me that a glass of drink has any effect on my mood, except perhaps making me slightly more relaxed and talkative (but it's really a minor effect, and perhaps due more to my enjoyment of the drink than to the alcohol per se). A cup of strong coffee has a far stronger effect on my overall mood than a glass of wine.

I would not trust myself with driving a car immediately after it (reflexes are affected somewhat, or so I've read, although I cannot say I noticed that in myself); but I hate driving anyway, so this is a moot point.

Still, when I see the devastation that alcohol causes in other lives, I cannot help but think that behaviour that enables that — even indirectly — should be avoided at all costs.

edited 17th Sep '14 4:08:27 AM by Carciofus

I'm Irish, so I'm drunk all the time. I don't even remember the last time I was fully sober.

Last week was what's known in Ireland as Junior Night. Fourteen and fifteen year olds get the results of a major school exam(the Junior Cert, that's where the name comes from), and lots of them celebrate by heading off and getting absolutely locked. It's easily the worst night in the country for young people drinking. Worse even than Leaving Night, which is the night the seventeen and eighteen year olds get the result of a far more important exam, the Leaving Cert. And the eighteen year olds are legally allowed to drink.

The next day, there's suddenly all this complaining about how terrible it is that the young are off drinking like that, and how awful young people's attitudes towards drink are. The papers show pictures of kids vomiting in the streets, because although it's a minority, the papers have no bother taking advantage of the whole situation and tarring a whole group for profit, almost glamourizing it with the amount of focus they put on it.

The thing is though, no one actually makes any effort to do anything about the problem of underage drinking because there's this view of, "Ah yeah, but didn't we all do it at their age?", and so completely accepting what's going on, or else just debating how to stop the young drinking. What they're forgetting is that of course these kids are going to drink to celebrate, since that's what the adults are doing. Birthdays, Christmas, funerals, communions, weddings, confirmations, Halloween, new job, Fridays- they're all excuses to have a drink for some people, and no one really criticizes that aspect of our culture, so the kids are seeing the hypocrisy when adults criticize them doing the same thing.

In saying all that though, I don't think drink is all bad. I just don't think we should be accepting fourteen year olds getting pissed on a regular basis(especially when this has been going on a few years at this stage), and there's too much turning a blind eye, or refusing to see how adults play a part in the whole thing to fix things at the moment.

I think people's attitudes need to change, and that we also need to become more responsible with our drinking. That doesn't necessarily mean drinking less, but it does mean taking responsibility for our own actions when we are drunk, and not being so bloody hypocritical.

Ah, feck, I've turned into a grumpy auld one.

edited 17th Sep '14 6:10:57 AM by QueenPanic

Yeah I am not sure we can define alcohol and morality as subjects that go together, as it's people's behavior that regulates how harmful that's going to be. So it's people's morality not so much alcohol's morality.

Also, yes. One flass of wine is a good thing medically speaking. What I am not sure about is how often. I think it was one glass of wine a month, or a week.

drinking, like morality is subjective. What I consider fine would probably be out of line for others.

Drinking is not a problem, it is what people do with it that is. Just like prescription drugs, occupations, etc.

I always knew people could get drunk but it never occurred to me people drink with the intention to get drunk until I was in college because drinking had been normalized and properly directed to me since birth.

If you don't want people to drink, then you need to give them an alternative and education. Such as I live in a dry county. You cannot buy booze at any store and to get a drink in a restaurant requires heavy taxes, licenses, and other red tape as well as a lot of money because these places are expensive. They're also very strict on enforcement of carding and cut offs because licenses are so hard to get they don't want to lose them. It doesn't help however that there are three different colleges in my town.

So we have more problems from people bringing in drink from the nearby wet counties or partying there and trying to drive home because they can't do it here. When you ban something, more people are prone to excess of that thing when they get it. We saw this with prohibition and legalizing weed.

I don't see any problem with drinking as long as you're responsible with it. I am saying this as the daughter of an abusive drunk mother so I do want that prefaced with it. I have noticed that rarely is it the drink that is a problem. The drink is a symptom. My mother was a batshit crazy monster before she started drinking. Drinking just made her a wobbly, slurring batshit crazy monster.

As someone with ASD, I've noticed alcohol tends to really calm me down after a bad week in which i feel i ave to shut down, i never go over two drinks a week though.

Re: Carciofus: as someone who doesn't drink that much (a beer followed by a shot of Cointreau, no more) and has friends that went all the way to blacking out... I'm pretty sure that my drinking habits don't really matter. I mean, you can tell someone he's being an idiot, you can even bring him various sorts of proof he's killing his liver etc, and he'll still behave like an idiot.
As mentioned earlier, there's also peer pressure involved. I remember this one time I went to a bar with a few people I know and they basically went "come, drink this horrid vodka-and-cranberry-juice cocktail with us! We know it tastes horrid but it'll make you feel good!"

My drinking has been toned down quite a lot since the night I had tequila and said yes when a friend offered me Jaegerbombs. I ended up throwing up and breaking about three glasses (because friends kept giving me water in glasses; I definitely appreciated the action, but they really needed to rethink the method) and not remembering most of the night.

Also, I've had to drive myself home far more often since then, so in general I get about a couple of beers in before stopping. The '2 and done' pattern has managed to stay in effect despite me having moved to an area that has a bunch of great bars in walking distance.

In the end I think it definitely comes down to drinking responsibly, which most people do.