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This thread is for discussing politics, political science, and other politics-related topics in a general, non-country/region-specific context. Do mind sensitive topics, especially controversial ones; I think we'd all rather the thread stay free of Flame Wars.

Please consult the following threads for country/region-specific politics (NOTE: The list is eternally non-comprehensive; it will be gradually updated whenever possible).

edited 11th Oct '14 3:17:52 PM by MarqFJA

TerminusEst from the Land of Winter and Stars Since: Feb, 2010
#151: Aug 22nd 2016 at 5:52:47 AM

My Evening with the Angry, Young, White Free Speech Crusaders Who Hate PC Culture

Basically, the Alt-right crowd is spreading its weirdness. Putting this here, as a general look.

edited 22nd Aug '16 5:52:56 AM by TerminusEst

Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele
DeMarquis Who Am I? from Hell, USA Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Buried in snow, waiting for spring
Who Am I?
#152: Sep 10th 2016 at 6:14:44 PM

@Greenmantle's article on globalization and right wing populism on the previous page...

So the question becomes what alternative narrative can the progressive movement make to appeal to working class voters which does not rely on xenophobia and protectionism? Well, logically there are only two ways to counter the cheap influx of goods and labor- either you make imported production more expensive (the "New Nationalism" solution), or you subsidize domestic consumption (ie, put money in people's pockets). That's more or less the same thing as social welfare, and stimulus spending. In other words, we have to in favor of using tax money to jump start the economy. In a progressive tax system, such as we have, this has come to be known as "Soaking the rich".

Up to the present, the popularity of this approach has suffered, I believe, from a lack of imagination in how it can be applied. Direct welfare payments to any but the most deserving poor appear to reward laziness in the eyes of the middle class (rightly or not is a different issue). But there are many other possible avenues to pumping up consumer power. Tax subsidies, low interest loans and government contracts can be targeted toward smaller businesses that produce goods for local markets, government investment in infrastructure spending, reduced sales taxes for consumers who purchase locallyproduced goods, and so on. Subsidized career training and job placement services for unemployed and underemployed people. Minimum wage laws and more protection for union activities. Government funded research and development labs to help small businesses expand their markets.

That's just the first half dozen ideas that occurred to me off the top of my head. A liberal think tank could take this more seriously and come up with a strong platform that would be designed to move us away from both greater wealth disparity and protectionism.

Think about it. This is exactly the mirror image of what the Koch bros billionaires network is doing (except, of course, based on actual facts and tested economic theory). It's what they didnt have in Europe just before WWII. It's what would put the lie to the promises of people like Trump.

I'm definitely going to have to put more thought into this.

"We learn from history that we do not learn from history."
nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#153: Sep 28th 2016 at 3:23:08 PM

[up][up]

as Sophie Thomas insisted, the "utter hatred for people with different views goes against Socratic debate"—as if everyone you impose yourself on should have to follow Oxford union rules. It's not hard to see why: Only in a formal debate do you have to give stupid and boring ideas a hearing they don't deserve. In fact, one of the earliest speakers, a Breitbart journalist, gave the game away. "No matter what," he said, "these opinions will not go unheard."

The Young British Heritage Society has big plans; they want to set up chapters in every British college—but it's not really clear what any of them will actually do, beyond meeting in a pub once a week and appreciating the logical, rational whiff of their communal farts. But most of the people I spoke to in the audience weren't there to support the YBHS at all, but to marvel over the event's keynote speaker, the "gay conservative provocateur" Milo Yiannopoulos.

I realize as I write this that some of you might be normal, happy people—people who live your lives in the sunshine and away from the sad buzz of your computer screen, and who have no idea who Milo Yiannopoulos is. If this is you, you should probably stop reading now; just smash that share button, and go on to enjoy the rest of a good and wholesome life. It's not that Yiannopoulos is a particularly dangerous or disturbing person, although he likes to think he is, or that his views are more odious than any other media bigot; it's just that what he wants more than anything is for you to know who he is, and he shouldn't be allowed to get it."

"Not saying that 'unsafe opinions' and the troublemakers who espouse them should be silenced, but it's better for society if these 'unsafe opinions' and these troublemakers who espouse them get silenced."

Funny.

edited 28th Sep '16 3:27:44 PM by nervmeister

Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#154: Sep 28th 2016 at 5:27:43 PM

I suppose you would like to get silenced just to prove your own point?

From Foreign Policy: It’s Still the Economy, Stupid

Because they are tailored to appeal to voters, all political platforms are, to some extent, “populist.” But what sets the wave of populism currently sweeping across the Western world apart from politics as usual is its impatience with constraints placed on democratic governments — in other words, its authoritarianism. When Fox News host Brett Baier suggested that the military would refuse Donald Trump’s orders to torture captured jihadis, the latter responded simply, “They’re not going to refuse me.” The notion that leaders elected by popular majorities can flout legal norms, constitutional rules, and democratic checks and balances is at heart of the “illiberal democracy” promoted by Viktor Orban in Hungary and the ethos of Poland’s Law and Justice Party, which has held power since October.

Although most frequently associated with political right, authoritarian populism cuts across ideological lines. True to their Maoist and Leninist precepts, the more radical members of Greece’s Syriza oppose not just Greece’s European creditors but also “capitalism itself.” In January, Spain’s newly elected Chamber of Deputies held its swearing-in ceremony. In a departure from tradition, many of the new deputies from the left-wing Podemos party conspicuously promised not just to “abide by the constitution,” but also to “work toward changing it.”

Support for authoritarian populists is driven by different factors in different countries.Support for authoritarian populists is driven by different factors in different countries. Much like Tolstoy’s unhappy families, each unhappy in their own way, today’s populists, both on the left and right, are responding to grievances specific to each particular time and place.

Greece has gone through dramatic economic hardship since the beginning of the global economic downturn of 2008. The United Kingdom and Germany have seen large influxes of Eastern European immigrants and Middle Eastern asylum-seekers, respectively. France and Belgium have been shaken by Islamist terrorism. Some European countries are still struggling with historic legacies of nationalism, while others face a barrage of Russian propaganda. The world’s leading liberal democracy, the United States, has still other problems, which are not exactly mirrored on the other side of the Atlantic.

The academic literature seeking to explain why voters support populist parties is not always enlightening. There’s no consistent relationship between rates of immigration and support for right-wing populist parties.There’s no consistent relationship between rates of immigration and support for right-wing populist parties. Neither do material wealth or social class do a good job in predicting support for such groups. Instead, support for populists is associated with certain ideological characteristics, such as opposition to multiculturalism and immigration or lack of confidence in political elites. A recent study from Flanders found that it is the perception of being vulnerable or underprivileged, rather than actual socioeconomic status, that induces individuals to support populists.

In any case, focusing on the beliefs or ideological dispositions that make individual voters fall for populists is no antidote to this disease of modern politics. If we want to find policies that could stem the tide, we have to look at the big picture.

Unlike the snapshots of survey data from different countries, this big picture is unambiguous: Financial crises lead to extremism.Financial crises lead to extremism. A recent study showed that between 1874 and 2014, financial crises increased support for far-right parties by 30 percent on average.

Indeed, the current populist onslaught is nothing new. Following the 1929 crash and the subsequent global depression, extremism of all stripes, left and right, rose across the Western world. Its growth was far more pronounced in countries that had weaker democratic traditions or by had been on the losing side in World War I. But an extended period of poor economic performance was a necessary ingredient.

A common objection to this argument is that the current wave of populism is rising in economically successful countries too. The recovery of the U.S. economy has shown it to be much more dynamic than Europe’s — yet American politics has given us Trump. Denmark and Austria are hardly economic basket cases. The former has a cabinet that relies on the support of the nationalist Danish People’s Party and the latter is likely to elect a far-right candidate for president in the presidential election later this year.

But this phenomenon only shows how dramatically our understanding of economic success has shifted. Real GDP in both Austria and Denmark today is at essentially the same level as in 2006. Even the United States, often invoked as example of a successful recovery from the Great Recession, has seen an annual growth in labor productivity of only 1.3 percent since 2005, compared to 2.8 percent a decade earlier. By 2014, real median household income was off by over 7 percent from its peak in 1999. Large numbers of Americans, especially men, have withdrawn from the labor market.

As result, if you are an average Dane, Austrian, or American, the odds are that your standard of living is disappointing compared to expectations you might have formed a decade or two ago. Provided that continuous improvements in standards of living are an integral part of the social contract that gives legitimacy to democratic capitalism, the current populist turn of Western politics should not look that puzzling after all.

Nor is it too difficult to link this analysis to the alternative accounts of populism discussed above. Any of the commonly identified drivers of support for populism — whether rejection of multiculturalism, fear of foreigners, concerns about seeing your community change, or sense that politics has become distant and incomprehensible — becomes much more bearable when one is busy having a career, seizing opportunities, building a life. It is no coincidence that one encounters less resentment of immigrants in cosmopolitan London than in the UK’s economically deprived areas, which have actually seen much less immigration.

Acknowledging that an economic malaise is at the heart of the current revolt against political elites gives much-needed compass to policymakers who might otherwise be tempted to stick with business as usual, or worse, try to appease the discontents by embracing populist ideas. Perhaps the most worrying example of the latter is the call by the former U.S. Treasury Secretary Lawrence Summers for a “responsible nationalism” that would scale back the neoliberal orthodoxy of creative destruction, unfettered trade, and open immigration regimes.

The central problem with “responsible nationalism” is that we know that economic protectionism and immigration restrictions will only deepen the West’s economic woes — just as a return to economic nationalism deepened the Great Depression.

What is to be done? Some elements of the West’s growth problem might not respond to economic reforms. The demographic changes that are reducing the size of the labor force, and with it the rates of economic growth, do not lend themselves to easy solutions. Japan’s example is extreme, but a similar pattern of aging affects practically all Western societies.

Yet even demographic trends can be fought — at least temporarily — through increased immigration. And while completely open borders are neither politically feasible nor desirable, a relaxation of currently existing restrictions would generate large economic gains.

Meanwhile, advances in fields from genetics to artificial intelligence belie the notion that humankind has exhausted its ability to innovate. More plausibly, in a better regulatory and policy environment, scientific advances would translate into marked improvements in standards of living much faster. According to a recent study by economists at Duke University and the Mercatus Center, the burden of federal regulation in the United States dampens growth by 0.8 percent every year. “Had regulations been held constant at levels observed in 1980,” the authors conclude, “the economy would be nearly 25 percent larger.”“Had regulations been held constant at levels observed in 1980,” the authors conclude, “the economy would be nearly 25 percent larger.”

The cost of compliance with complex regulation is only a relatively minor part of the problem. More serious is the extent to which regulatory barriers have shut down commercially viable innovations. For example, the FAA’s infamous 1973 ban on supersonic transport over the United States might have to do with the fact that air travel has seen very little change in the past four decades. More than a half of EU member states, including France and Germany, ban their farmers from growing genetically modified crops — despite the lack of evidence that these pose risks to humans or the environment. It’s also possible that heavy-handed regulation will kill the future of commercial drones or driverless cars before these industries even get off the ground.

More pedestrian of overregulation exist as well. Occupational licensing in professions where it is not justified by public interest (think florists, barbers, or carpenters) and restrictions imposed on the so-called sharing economy hinder social mobility and lock people in poverty, all while making insiders better off.

As the EU’s precautionary principle illustrates, excessive economic regulation often reflects an unjustified aversion to risk. More commonly, it also reflects a certain intellectual complacency — a belief that economic progress is sometimes not worth the disruption it comes with. But if such complacency was perhaps excusable in good economic times, it is hardly justifiable at a time when the post-war political order is coming under an unprecedented populist attack — precisely because of its failure to deliver shared prosperity.

This is not a call for a one-way ticket to a laissez-faire utopia. Of course, there is a role for government in setting and enforcing standards, preventing fraud, and protecting the marginalized and the vulnerable. But it’s not obvious that these goals are best served by a regulatory state that grew, as Niall Ferguson notes, by a factor of 30 since 1936 — while the U.S. economy became only 12 times larger.

It has become a tired cliché to say that the victorious march of populists is “a wake-up call” to political elites. It is also an unhelpful one, as long as it does not specify what exactly the elites should do once awake from their slumber. Here, in contrast, is to hope that they will understand that liberal democracy cannot flourish without a robust engine of sustained economic growth.

I'd say that an admission of the failure of austerity economics would be more helpful than loosening regulations, but I suppose it can be considered, at the very least.

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#155: Sep 28th 2016 at 6:11:24 PM

Regarding healthcare and inelasticity, it's interesting to imagine Stringer and the Barksdales working in the legit pharmaceutical industry...

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#156: Sep 28th 2016 at 6:21:44 PM

[up][up]Preferably not. But I understand there always the risk of stigmatization depending on what kind of crowd I run contrary to. Likewise, I know how tempting it can be to simply drown out anyone who disagrees with me, especially when I'm convinced in the right (or have numbers on my side). That said, I'd rather not be part of the problem of heated tribalism in any direction, especially when it comes to politics.

edited 28th Sep '16 6:22:40 PM by nervmeister

PotatoesRock The Potato's Choice Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: I know
The Potato's Choice
#159: Dec 8th 2016 at 12:53:40 PM

On the "Horror Graph" of younger people supporting anti-democratic dictators. (Young people want a strongman leader unhampered by the system and feel democratic systems aren't producing the results they want.)

My personal guess is, since they didn't do follow up questions on why the polled felt this way:

Young people haven't experienced dictatorship in many first world countries, and are so tired of partisan gridlock that they want a strongman government that can reach over uncompromising democratic institutions to get things done.

Many were increasingly of the opinion that they'd all made a big mistake in coming down from the trees in the first place. - Douglas Adams
IFwanderer use political terms to describe, not insult from Earth Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
use political terms to describe, not insult
#160: Dec 8th 2016 at 1:50:43 PM

Yeah, I really want to see how that graph would look for Argentina, seeing as our current president won on a platform of "we'll actually listen to the opposition and try to reach consensus with them".

1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KV
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#161: Dec 8th 2016 at 2:05:15 PM

Would not be surprised if the popularity of our own would-be strongman in Brazil is tied to the fact that a lot of people here were born after the abyss that was the military dictatorship.

I might also note that this same phenomenon has clued me into the rather disturbing fact that sometimes older people who lived through a dictatorship will want to go back to it because of false assumptions about how things worked, when in reality they had no information except their own personal lives and anecdotes. Their personal experiences are somehow more important than the vast amounts of historical scholarship that shows how horrific and inhumane that regime really was.

Eschaton Since: Jul, 2010
#162: Dec 8th 2016 at 2:12:40 PM

As always, Legend of the Galactic Heroes remains quite relevant.

I personally would consider it required viewing, not only because of the political dynamic it presents, but also because of how people react to it. Especially its conception of the ideal autocracy, which viewers have responded to in the same terms we see now in reality.

And this is something I've seen coming. In my high school (US) government class, people were really struck by things like the Iron Triangle, revolving door, gerrymandering, Electoral College, pork barrel projects, earmarks, etc., and that's going to have an impact.

edited 8th Dec '16 2:13:01 PM by Eschaton

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#163: Dec 8th 2016 at 2:50:19 PM

What is its conception of the ideal autocracy? I never watched it. The pace was too slow for me to get hooked.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Eschaton Since: Jul, 2010
#164: Dec 8th 2016 at 3:56:00 PM

A charismatic leader (a mixture of Alexander the Great, Frederick the Great, and Napoleon) assembles a group of like-minded, loyal men to reform The Empire from within and remove the corrupt, inept aristocracy, essentially becoming the ideal Enlightened Despot.

Meanwhile, the other protagonist tries to work within and defend a Democracy, despite its corrupt, inept leadership, but the democracy is eventually defeated by the empire.

Obviously, there's a lot more to all of this, but it's an autocracy that's given the more positive light.

edited 8th Dec '16 3:58:29 PM by Eschaton

Mio Since: Jan, 2001
#165: Dec 8th 2016 at 4:04:32 PM

[up]So rather standard issue Bonapartism then?

Can't say I'm particularly convinced, nor does it want to make me want to see that series.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#166: Dec 8th 2016 at 4:10:34 PM

I've heard pretty damn good things about it independently of Eschaton's observation. If it has any relevance to our current political climate that's one more reason for me to watch it.

Eschaton Since: Jul, 2010
#167: Dec 8th 2016 at 10:00:45 PM

I watched it after hearing that it was the greatest anime ever, and I wasn't disappointed, but that's just my personal taste. It also turns out to have been very important in early fansubbing.

Anyways, [up][up] is correct that its presentation of autocracy is more one-dimensional, which combined with its presentation of democracy, leads to certain takeaways... (despite valid in-universe criticism of that same thinking).

Point is, I believe part of that series's continued popularity is how it captures many viewers' frustration with current democracies (especially over the last decade), tying into the trend mentioned earlier.

edited 8th Dec '16 10:01:11 PM by Eschaton

Quag15 Since: Mar, 2012
#168: Dec 9th 2016 at 3:06:46 AM

[up]Well, 'greatest anime ever' might be a bit of an exaggeration. Still, you've convinced me to check it out.

Also, I wonder if part of the commentary that is made on both systems in-universe is based on the writings of Machiavelli (not only The Prince, but also Discourses on Livy), Hobbes and other relevant political philosophers.

MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#169: Dec 9th 2016 at 6:02:13 AM

I have a question about a hypothetical scenario: How would you describe (not judge, but describe; "classify" is probably a valid alternative word) the following hypothetical political system?

  • There's a hereditary monarch and an elected government, similar to a constitutional monarchy.
  • The elected government follows a semi-presidential multi-party system (specifically the premier-presidential subtype, exemplified by France).
  • The monarch is technically an absolute monarch, but in practice they let the elected government do their thing and offer pieces of advice on particular subjects of interest rather than orders/decrees, unless something happens that give them a strong reason to take direct control (e.g. excessive partisanship is impeding proper functioning of the government, or a severe crisis that the elected government is either dragging its feet about resolving for one reason or the other or is making decisions that are ultimately misguided despite their well intentions because they're just humans with all the limitations and shortcomings that entails).

For the record, the dynasty holding the monarchy are Transhumans/Posthumans that are superior to normal humans in every scientifically quantifiable respect; that should address the issue of why the monarch can be trusted to act as a dictator in crisis situations. And if you're wondering, they haven't developed the means of uplifting the rest of humanity to their level yet; they're working on it, though.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
war877 Grr... <3 from Untamed Wilds Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Grr... <3
#170: Dec 9th 2016 at 6:14:02 AM

That is an absolute monarchy.

If the monarch is powerless in any circumstance, then it is not absolute. But if they can dissolve the elected government at will then it is absolute.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from a handcart heading to Hell Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#171: Dec 11th 2016 at 7:26:01 AM

It comes down to where the line is between can and does. The British monarch can (well could until very recently) dissolve parliament at will, but they never do so it is a constitutional monarchy.

The big issue I'd pick apart with the system is what powers the president has and what powers the monarch has, because there's a lot of overlap if you've got both.

"And the Bunny nails it!" ~ Gabrael "If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we." ~ Cyran
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#172: Dec 11th 2016 at 8:18:50 AM

That is an absolute monarchy.

If the monarch is powerless in any circumstance, then it is not absolute. But if they can dissolve the elected government at will then it is absolute.

But then Liechtenstein — in which the monarch is pretty much capable of doing what you just said by law — is officially classified as a constitutional monarchy.

It comes down to where the line is between can and does. The British monarch can (well could until very recently) dissolve parliament at will, but they never do so it is a constitutional monarchy.
... If they're not supposed to do so at all in order to be a constitutional monarchy then why give them that power to begin with?

That said, legally speaking, the monarch of this hypothetical scenario can do anything as long as it's not proven beyond any reasonable shadow of doubt that it's a violation of the constitution, which defines the terms of the social contract between the monarchy and the rest of the nation.

The big issue I'd pick apart with the system is what powers the president has and what powers the monarch has, because there's a lot of overlap if you've got both.
The monarch in this system basically has all of the powers that are typically wielded by the executive, legislative, and judicial branches of the government. All of them. They just don't wield them most of the time and instead delegate them to the respective government branches, until such a time comes when they're given reason to exercise their powers (though not necessarily all of them at once; it all depends on the circumstances).

edited 11th Dec '16 8:21:06 AM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
TerminusEst from the Land of Winter and Stars Since: Feb, 2010
#173: Dec 11th 2016 at 8:42:08 AM

[up]

Dissolving the parliament is technically within the power of many monarchs, but they know very well if they use it, they'll be ignored and promptly removed from power.

Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele
IFwanderer use political terms to describe, not insult from Earth Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
use political terms to describe, not insult
#174: Dec 11th 2016 at 8:42:43 AM

[up][up]Because they haven't been given that power, it's not been taken from them yet.

As in, assuming I understand correctly, throughout British history the parliament gradually took powers away from the crown at different points in history. Nowadays they keep that faculty, but should it ever happen, as soon as parliament comes back they'd remove that power from the crown.

edited 11th Dec '16 8:45:23 AM by IFwanderer

1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KV
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#175: Dec 11th 2016 at 9:14:28 AM

That doesn't make much sense to me. Semi-presidential republics give that kind of power to presidents so that they serve as a check against the parliament screwing things with excessive indecisiveness, infighting, or some other shit they could get into. Constitutional monarchs should be in a similar role.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

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