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edited 11th Oct '14 3:17:52 PM by MarqFJA
That is indeed true, and I do see your points.
Also, a political question: Was last year a major political shift to the right, or had it been like this for some time and it was just last year had several major elections?
edited 26th Jun '17 11:39:05 AM by WhatArtThee
Just another day in the life of Jimmy Nutrin
Oh, bother.
It's been heading that way for a while ever since shit like 9-11, the clusterfuck that was the Iraq War and all of the fallout (Arab Spring, the Syrian civil war, fucking DAESH...), the 2008 banking crisis, bigotry finding new echo chambers in social media and Reddit threads...
Disgusted, but not surprised
If I am not mistaken, I think the major catalyst was the economic depression and Eurozone debt crisis, which significantly reduced trust in government and caused lots of far-right parties to gain popularity.
edited 26th Jun '17 11:46:59 AM by WhatArtThee
Just another day in the life of Jimmy Nutrin
Oh, bother.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
It reduced trust in the "establishment" period. There's a reason major elections last year more or less resulted in the electorate spitting in the eye of the establishment, whether or not it was really deserved.
Hell, France's election was actually a bit of the same. There's a reason France's "main" parties fared so poorly in the general election and why the second round came down to a brand new centrist party and the fucking Front National.
The anti-establishment trend can also be seen in the result of the UK snap election in which the Tories lost their majority despite initial high approval ratings when the election was called. Thanks to May's incompetence and hubris and Corbyn campaigning skillfully, a lot of people (especially younger people) voted against the Tories' incompetent management, disastrous deregulation, and heartless austerity measures.
edited 26th Jun '17 11:55:56 AM by M84
Disgusted, but not surprised
Who Am I?
It's actually been going on since the 1970's, when both the US and Europe began abandoning policies that had been put in place after WWII to strengthen wealth equality. I believe that increasing wealth disparity is ultimately behind most of the rising political extremism we see today.
"We learn from history that we do not learn from history."
Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign?
So, my hypothesis is this: The poor are often considered The Corruptible for radicalization. In the US context at least, "the New Poor," a sociology term, are inert in politics (partly because of a lack of belief that the future will ever be better). note
The ones most in vulnerable to radicalization are recently rattled—not necessarily even impoverished—members of the middle class. I.e. those who've suddenly lost privileged status. With the poor the opposite problem (getting people in the game) is the issue.
edited 2nd Jul '17 6:28:47 PM by CenturyEye
Look with century eyes... With our backs to the arch And the wreck of our kind We will stare straight ahead For the rest of our lives
edited 2nd Jul '17 6:28:59 PM by Fourthspartan56
"Sandwiches are probably easier to fix than the actual problems" -Hylarn
Who Am I?
You could call it a "Revolution of Diminished Expectations".
"We learn from history that we do not learn from history."
Ha, I like that. ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
United Earth
So, the reply to "you're got nothing to lose but your lives or your chains", is "the weight of the chains on my feet is so familiar"?
I mean, slaves and serfs and peasants have a historied tradition of rebelling, but maybe they're qualitatively different from the modern free poor?
Who Am I?
Of course they are. Would you advise a poor person today to trade places with any of those?
edited 3rd Jul '17 7:36:41 AM by DeMarquis
"We learn from history that we do not learn from history."
United Earth
What I mean to say is, are modern poor hitting some kind of Apathy Valley of Misery where it's only if things get better or worse that they'll actually get proactive about bettering their lot?
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Figure of Hourai
Given that said rebellions tend to be triggered by something that makes things even worse? Yes. Very rare is the rebellion that happens simply from being poor—and qualitatively, chattel slavery is very distinct from the other two.
edited 3rd Jul '17 7:54:53 AM by RainehDaze
Avatar Source
Nope, modern poor (in developed countries at-least) don't rebel because their lives aren't bad enough to justify rebellion (and all of the risks that entails) not to mention how efficient modern state are at suppressing dissent.
Exactly.
edited 3rd Jul '17 8:25:07 AM by Fourthspartan56
"Sandwiches are probably easier to fix than the actual problems" -Hylarn
Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign?
Apologies that it took so long, but my response is basically this one:
edited 3rd Jul '17 2:12:02 PM by CenturyEye
Look with century eyes... With our backs to the arch And the wreck of our kind We will stare straight ahead For the rest of our lives
A procrastination in of itself
Weren't the English revolts due to disease having wiped out large segments of the populations meaning that those who remained were few enough that they could collectively bargain and thus revolt? It was still a change in circumstance, the change was simply that the worker pool dropped dramatically and thus increased the bargaining position of the workers.
"And the Bunny nails it!" ~ Gabrael "If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we." ~ Cyran
Figure of Hourai
I'm confused what you're saying. I said that most rebellions have a course more than "just poor".
I think it was set off by a Poll Tax. Always good for revolts, that.
Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign?
The post was addressed at The Handle. I might have borrowed your answer to add to it.
edited 3rd Jul '17 2:12:19 PM by CenturyEye
Look with century eyes... With our backs to the arch And the wreck of our kind We will stare straight ahead For the rest of our lives
Organized Canine Bureau Special Agent
https://ph.news.yahoo.com/un-set-adopt-treaty-outlawing-nuclear-weapons-012300434.html
Posting this here, well... 'cause it's the UN.
"Exit muna si Polgas. Ang kailangan dito ay si Dobermaxx!"
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
I greatly sympathize with the drafters/negotiators of this treaty, but they have got to realize that it's literally unenforceable with the distinct lack of any leverage over the nuclear-armed powers, right? Now, if one of them was a hyperpower (i.e. clearly very superlative to any other world power, if not most or even all of them combined) in both the military and economic senses, things would've been different.
Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Organized Canine Bureau Special Agent
https://ph.news.yahoo.com/un-set-adopt-treaty-outlawing-nuclear-weapons-012300434.html
It's there, but the nuke powers (and Japan) aren't in the treaty.
"Exit muna si Polgas. Ang kailangan dito ay si Dobermaxx!"
Sorta redundant in the face of the NPT. And, in addition to what Marq said about the whole enforcement thing, the world is probably better off with nuclear weapons than it is without them (they've nearly eliminated the chance of a war between the major powers and their spheres). And you can't erase knowledge....
So until we encounter aliens to unify us (and aim nukes at), we still need the fear of microwaving the planet to keep us in check.
Humanity, Fuck Yeah!
An hour of talk by Parag Khanna, a strategist and functionalist. Suits this place as it's pretty heavy on theory of international relations and politics.
Organized Canine Bureau Special Agent
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_on_the_Prohibition_of_Nuclear_Weapons
Details on the treaty. You can see who didn't vote or chose not to exercise the vote.
"Exit muna si Polgas. Ang kailangan dito ay si Dobermaxx!"
And Italy looks on track to falling for populism.
In the long term...maybe it'll have positive effects. But in the short-term...well, you get shit like a Muslim Ban, a Supreme Court that will be conservative, a possible wealthcare bill that kills millions...
And in the UK there was the Grenfell Tower fire, the culmination of years of austerity, deregulation, and a government that generally didn't give a fuck about poor people. Also, Brexit is almost certainly going to screw the UK hard.
Things possibly being better in the long-term is a cold comfort to those who are hurt and suffering right now. And some people will never live to see those theoretical better times.
It's one of the reasons I find accelerationism so abhorrent. Deliberately making things worse for everyone in the hopes of causing long-term change...no. Just no.
edited 26th Jun '17 11:37:18 AM by M84
Disgusted, but not surprised