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KJMackley Since: Jan, 2001
#176: Sep 12th 2016 at 7:03:51 PM

I thought it was a fine idea but was poorly implemented. It's a similar problem with Star Trek Into Darkness, where after what should be the big finale the movie grinds to a halt so that they can focus exclusively on a main character.

The nature of the technology Thrax has is actually rather interesting, and completely ignored as to how he figured it out. The detainment camp was also rather lackluster, for something to produce that many drones you'd thing there would be hundreds of those landing stocks, but we only see 5 or 6.

theLibrarian That all you got? from his own little world Since: Jul, 2009
That all you got?
#177: Sep 12th 2016 at 7:07:06 PM

Well those all do seem big enough to hold the entire swarm of drones.

That is the face of a man who just ate a kitten. Raw.
Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#178: Sep 12th 2016 at 7:23:53 PM

It's a little difficult to tell the scale at times, but that is a lot of those ships to have.

What I meant before, though, is that she specifically needs the Enterprise, because that's where the artifact is. How can she be sure that's the ship they'll send? Unless it's the only ship on hand, which I think it actually was, IIRC, but that's quite convenient in its own right.

edited 13th Sep '16 2:22:25 PM by Unsung

Wackd Since: May, 2009
#179: Sep 12th 2016 at 8:58:51 PM

How can she be sure that's the ship they'll send? Unless it actually was the only ship on hand, which I think it actually was, IIRC, but that's quite convenient in its own right.
The Enterprise is always the only ship in the sector who can do the thing.

It's practically a cliché at this point.

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
theLibrarian That all you got? from his own little world Since: Jul, 2009
That all you got?
#180: Sep 12th 2016 at 9:20:39 PM

Yeah, Kirk did say "The Enterprise has the most sophisticated sensor suite in the fleet, she can map the nebula no problem." They literally had to send the Enterprise to even have a chance at finding the planet.

That is the face of a man who just ate a kitten. Raw.
Whowho Since: May, 2012
#181: Sep 13th 2016 at 6:45:27 AM

Oh, that is a legitimate contrivance. Though if there HAD been other ships docked at York Town all Krall would have to do is send his number 2 directly to the Enterprise (which would risk making the trap too obvious)

Honnestly, with all the super weapons in this Galaxy I'm surprised the ancient's one is the first one Krall had an opportunity to steal.

Perhaps he wanted that exact one due to its ineffectiveness against his own drones, and thus he had to wait one hundred years for everything to line up by chance.

KJMackley Since: Jan, 2001
#182: Sep 13th 2016 at 2:12:57 PM

And that is really my main problem with even including the superweapon, it plays second-fiddle to Thrax's near invincible swarmships and is more of a coda to the real threat. At this point, there was no real reason in searching for the weapon over the course of the movie because it is so much smaller in raw power compared what the villain can already do. It may be something of an homage to the Genesis Device in Star Trek II or the Thalaron Generator in Nemesis, a back-up weapon that the villain still has as a trump card, but it just doesn't have much symmetry with the rest of the story because of how strain his plan was.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#183: Sep 13th 2016 at 3:09:14 PM

it plays second-fiddle to Thrax's near invincible swarmships and is more of a coda to the real threat.
But his swarmships weren't invincible, as the Enterprise discovered. All they needed was some time to find the right frequency and then the Beastie Boys took care of the rest.

theLibrarian That all you got? from his own little world Since: Jul, 2009
That all you got?
#184: Sep 13th 2016 at 3:38:29 PM

I'd much prefer a massive superweapon that can liquify an entire planet just by dropping it into the atmosphere than I would a swarm of ships that could be destroyed with enough firepower or a clever trick.

That is the face of a man who just ate a kitten. Raw.
KJMackley Since: Jan, 2001
#185: Sep 13th 2016 at 3:51:21 PM

The Enterprise did not discover their vulnerability, she in fact got shredded apart because it is virtually impossible to figure out their weakness from a first encounter. The weapon is also a hand-held device that seems to not have any sort of remote control to it. Just activating it is likely to be a suicide maneuver and even if you toss it in the ventilation shafts before it eats you, you can't exact retrieve it safely. There is also little to say that a well placed phaser shot could neutralize the device entirely.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#186: Sep 13th 2016 at 3:56:31 PM

The Enterprise did not discover their vulnerability, she in fact got shredded apart because it is virtually impossible to figure out their weakness from a first encounter.
They just needed time and a bit more information to figure it out. So while the swarmships might have been able to take out one or two ships, as soon as the Federation was informed of them and looked at recordings of them taking out ships, they would have figured out (like the crew did) what their weakness was.

Meanwhile, I don't think the superweapon had a weakness.

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#187: Sep 13th 2016 at 5:06:54 PM

The super weapon destroys all organic life within an atmosphere right?

Robots and people in space suits could just, shoot you.

theLibrarian That all you got? from his own little world Since: Jul, 2009
That all you got?
#188: Sep 13th 2016 at 5:33:45 PM

Yeah, but if you do it by surprise pretty much everyone'll be caught off guard.

That is the face of a man who just ate a kitten. Raw.
Whowho Since: May, 2012
#189: Sep 13th 2016 at 6:09:43 PM

It did seem that Yorktown was intended to be an initial shock attack and then it would be plundered for all of it's ships and resources for an all out war to be waged.

KJMackley Since: Jan, 2001
#191: Sep 13th 2016 at 7:51:50 PM

Even that is questionable. Thrax and his lieutenant were the only actual people in the army, the rest were drones designed to pilot the swarmships. Even if Yorktown was the absolute peak of ship building and weapons research, it's a major and very valuable hub, he won't have a lot of time to build anything worthwhile before having to face against wave after wave of Federation ships.

theLibrarian That all you got? from his own little world Since: Jul, 2009
That all you got?
#192: Sep 13th 2016 at 8:41:53 PM

I'd imagine he could convert Yorktown's facilities to build more drones or something. There were likely a ton of others than the ones that were piloting the ships. They were designed to support an entire planet, after all.

edited 13th Sep '16 8:42:17 PM by theLibrarian

That is the face of a man who just ate a kitten. Raw.
IndirectActiveTransport You Give Me Fever from Chicago Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
You Give Me Fever
#193: Sep 14th 2016 at 4:49:36 AM

Yes, that was the entire point. The weapon got rid of biological material while leaving everything else intact. That was explained in detail, in the first scene. It was "new" to Star Fleet but at least two other civilizations knew of it and Krall hadn't spent his entire time focused on Federation activities, he had been knocking off unaffiliated aliens along the way.

It wasn't the first super weapon he had an opportunity to steal so much as one he really wanted to steal because he had the other piece of it already. When you see it in action and then discover how Krall intends to use it you're supposed to go "oh, that's why that ambassador freaked about people killing them for their things when he saw a piece of it in his room".

That's why he wants you to have the money. Not so you can buy 14 Cadillacs but so you can help build up the wastes
Whowho Since: May, 2012
#194: Sep 14th 2016 at 8:40:07 AM

Yeah I don't consider the super weapon a contrivance at all when I consider the time span and area Krall was looking for it.

One thing I don't get though, is that Krall seemingly forgot the location of his crashed original ship?

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#195: Sep 14th 2016 at 8:41:02 AM

One thing I don't get though, is that Krall seemingly forgot the location of his crashed original ship?
Yeah, that bugged me, too, when I thought about it, but I chalked it up to him being alive for so long and Jayla cloaking the ship, so he forgot exactly where it was.

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#197: Sep 14th 2016 at 11:09:16 AM

I'm not going to push this too hard, because I think that's still a plot hole, but Krall might simply not have thought about his old ship in a long time. He doesn't necessarily know that that's anywhere near where Jaylah is hiding, he's got his own ships at this point, and as far as he knows the Franklin's wreck was completely unsalvageable— Jaylah's put a lot of work into just making it habitable, right? But then the Federation's come a long way in the past 100 years, so suddenly making it fly again isn't so insurmountable.

edited 14th Sep '16 11:13:49 AM by Unsung

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#198: Sep 14th 2016 at 12:41:20 PM

I would happily believe that Krall in part RESENTED the Franklin. It was his consolation prize for fighting a war. But then he says the phrase "My old friend".

But I agree that the Franklin probably wasn't of any use to him once him and his two commanders took control of the latent tech on the planet.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#199: Nov 9th 2016 at 12:44:23 PM

Well, that was a movie.

Not a great movie, but I more or less had fun with it.

RIP Anton Yelchin.sad

Also, despite it's Black Sheep status in the franchise, I liked the nods to Enterprise. I'm annoyed that it took me so long to recognize the uniform spock was wearing.

One Strip! One Strip!
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