Some help with Winged humanoids?

I'm trying to make a Winged humanoid species with feathered wings and a tail while maintaining a human-like look to them but i'm having trouble placing the wings and I don't really know enough about how the body works in order to change the musculature without hindering the arms too much. As for the rotation i planned on adding another bone to give them some more room.

I'm just looking for believable/Plausible not Realistic due to all the issues they would have.

The species right now would be very lithe and compact, bones would be hollow for flexible as if i remember correctly they don't really change the density so the weight would remain the same. females would lack breasts males would probably have slits and sexual dimorphism would be minimal. Most likely have some feathering instead of hair.

Any ideas?

Since humans are mammals, maybe you could base them on bats? There were a few Pterosaurs which were much larger than modern birds believed to be capable of flight. Maybe something like bumble bee or beetle wings? (The main problem with large bugs is oxygen, with a mammal/bird's lungs that might be less of a problem)

I mean, do you plan on them to have two legs and two wings or are you going for arms too, like a vertebrate with extra wings? If you're intent on six limbs and having them fly, I would base them on beetles or bees, since they have six limbs and can fly.

I've got a question: are these winged humanoids able to fly, or are they more like ostriches with arms?

theyre able to fly or at least glide, i got rid of the running start issue by having their settlements be in high up areas.

i already have a counterpart with Pterosaur wings thank you, like i said i'm just trying to see how to set up the musculature in order to have room for the wings while being human-like and making sure the other limbs don't interfere too much, so yes 6 limbs and feathered.

Alright. Even if you go for the most lightweight "construction" possible, you're still going to run into power/weight ratio issues. You'll need to dedicate most of your body mass to flight muscle, and that'll lead to some very strange proportions. You'd have to have massive chests with powerful muscle and relatively scrawny legs and arms.

that would be a bit more useful if i knew where and how to place the wings without them being an interference first ^^;

i don't think it would be as drastic since i removed the whole start issue,as most of that power would go towards starting, by taking advantage of their home-location and maintaining flight tends to be easier on the body; it could also be based on their lifestyle as the ones who don't enjoy flying might not have very developed muscles in that area etc.

it's interesting i asked for the attachment parts in particular and I seem to have gotten a response referring to anything but that..cept maybe the pterosaur bug one even though I already stated about the wings being feathered ,speaking of which i'm already using a membrane connecting the lower back to the wings so the spine isn't too much of an issue as for flight control they would most likely end up with feathered tails as well, i'm glad i got some responses though so thank you all for replying I appreciate that you wanted to help and took the effort

thing is i just want or well to be more specific how do i give them wings but have the musculature not interfere drastically with arm movement. right now i just want them to at least look like they could have the wings necessary while maintaining a human-like body. we'll figure everything else out afterwords ok? :)

If you're not worried about feasible biology, why not just go with the standard arrangement of placing the wings on the shoulder-blades? It may not be biologically sound, but it looks decent, I think.

If you do want something halfway feasible... I'm honestly not sure of what to suggest. I'm not currently seeing a configuration that doesn't involve either the wings not working properly or the arms being moved out of the way, changing the figure's proportions away from human-like.

Hmm... Actually, what about a second set of shoulders almost halfway down the back? It would probably call for a more rigid spine than is standard for humans, and rather more musculature around the mid-section, but it might allow for wings that don't get in the way while folded up and arms that don't get in the way if held close to the chest while flying. For purposes of balance, you might have the wings sweep forwards a bit when opened.

I don't even have the suspension of disbelief to draw shoulderblade wings theyre way too ridiculous for me, i am looking for feasible but nothing too realistic due to every single impossibility they have of existing. like i said i'd work out the changes after figuring out how to attach them in fact i think i have a majority of them worked out the issue so far is just the location and the shape of their muscles/where they would attach

that might work but its not very visually appealing at least from hi was thinking something a little higher? but then we have the issue with interfering scapula.

at one point i added a second collar bone and had the the attachments come from a bone just above the shoulders but more centered with the spine, turned out it looked horrible and were a bit far up not to mention it seemed to constrict the chest since i had the muscle taking over where the pectorals were. after that i tried having that additional bone point downwards but it seemed to stress the muscle even more and there was no way to go beneath the arm without constricting movement thanks to overlap with the area. I'd add some drawings but the only things i have are extremely outdated and don't show them that well

i also debated on having a new muscle bunch be where the wings were but there comes my lack of musculature knowledge and how the body operates. I decided on having a keel of course but i planned to keep it small and have the body be compact, it's noticeable but just barely, even less so on the ones who deny flight. also thought of putting a V shaped muscle over the shoulders to the keel hell i even tried tampering with the pectorals to see what i could do to them going with having them be V ,more of a u really, shaped due to visual appeal but again I don't even know if any of that is actually functional and wouldn't inhibit the body considering the race did develop these traits over many years and had a case of convergent evolution it'd only make sense that it shouldn't.

I stupidly made a decision where the humans on that world only know of all the other species as myths and stories,some being more fantastical then others, despite interacting with them daily. wings would already be hidden by having them rest on the shoulders and covered like a cape feathering would be mistaken for decoration due to any clothing surrounding the feathered parts etc.

Sorry if i keep rambling I need to learn how to condense my sentences while still saying everthing i need to without repetition

Low-gravity world? Alternately, some property of that world gives it a lower local gravity than its size would indicate?

That's kind of why I suggested pterosaur or bat. Then their "arms" could just be their wings folded up. They could gallop along and have some degree of prehensile manipulation. Like some kind of flying orangutans.

Maybe make the wings something connected to their arms and legs they can partially retract or hook together in flight, since they seem to be relying on jumping off of high places anyway. Maybe combine the limb attachment wings with two more on their shoulders for...I don't know, looking cool hand waved as extra lift, steering, something like that?

edited 6th Jun '14 3:50:08 PM by IndirectActiveTransport

What if you made the wings double-jointed, so they can be folded backwards as well as forwards? That way, if the bird-people don't want the wings getting in the way of their arms, they can just fold them across their backs.

Something like that :)

as awesome as that would look that probably wouln't work very well on this species theyre a highly intelligent race,to the point where they can have cyberneticlike replacements and made a device that attaches to the wings to remove sound so their enemies don't hear them;it doesnt work on the ones with hummingbird wings, and one of that worlds first. i could probably use most of that on their counterparts which are supposed to be more mammal-like and have pterosaur wings. i'm really adamant on this particular race contain 6 limbs though even if its really unrealistic. that and well if i make the arms wings i might as well just make them harpies and they don't just don't appeal to me as much as the 6 limbed wing being does although i do enjoy them.

I actually like that idea but i was more refering to the muscle structure obscuring and constricting muscles needed to move the arms when talking about obstruction. i'll probably use that so thank you :)

Try placing the wings around the waist area. It's basically like one of those four armed races, except the lower arms are wings instead, and from a musculature standpoint, a second hip like structure between the ribcage and the hips would allow for the placement of the wings.

Mmph. Seems to me that the simplest way to do it would be to give these people an extra muscle cluster between their shoulderblades and running down to about the small of their back (so that they don't end up looking like hunchbacks but still have a respectable amount of musclemass). Stretch their shoulderblades up and outwards a bit and add a ball joint to the top of each one, and attach the wings to those. Easy-peasey.

That should allow for a pretty similar range of movement to humans, although they would likely have a bit harder time reaching behind themselves (possibly compensated for slightly by the fact that their ribcages would likely be a bit more flexible), and I think bending at the waist would be somewhat more limited, especially if the wings were extended. Thinking about it, extending the wings with this setup might even come close to locking the waist entirely.

i might need a diagram for that one. do you meaning putting the wings on the standard shoulderblades? wouldn't that cause them to make the arms move in a well silly fashion during flight? i feel like i'm missing a lot here