Not Tropeworthy: Two First Names

Total posts: [63]
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26 tandtheb31st May 2014 10:06:32 PM , Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
Well, for what it's worth, Two First Names is also often used in crime/workplace shows where characters are referred to by their last names. It helps that the last name is cool or easy to relate to and easy to say, which tends to create either this trope or funky last names (Hotchner, Cuddy).

Examples: Criminal Minds has Spencer Reid, Jason Gideon, Derek Morgan, Alex Blake, David Rossi. NCIS has Paula Cassidy, Samantha Ryan, Jason Dean, Kate Todd, and Ziva David. House had James Wilson, Allison Cameron, Robert Chase, and a couple more if I'm not mistaken. Then there's Dexter Morgan and his family, and Joe Quinn from the same show.

Basically, I think this trope should be kept because every time I've seen a show where people were typically referred to their last names, a couple of characters always fell into this trope, usually more prominent ones or females. While we're on that subject, females seem to often be given masculine names as last names, which probably serves to toughen them up in the eyes of a viewer, I guess.

edited 31st May '14 10:07:47 PM by tandtheb

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[up]To me, that seems so vague as to be almost useless. (And I've never heard Reid, Blake or Rossi used as first names.)

As for the last bit about female characters, that seems like an assumption. I'd like to see some statistics / Word of God before I believe that writers routinely give female character surnames that can also be male first names so we'll think they're tough even though they're mere girls.

(Sorry if that sounded harsh. It wasn't directed at you personally; I just think this "trope" is still a whole lot of nothing.)

EDIT: In fact, if what you mentioned is a trope, I'd say it's that characters who will often be referred to by their last names will have short, punchy, non-embarrassing last names, rather than ones that are first names specifically.

edited 1st Jun '14 4:45:38 AM by DoktorvonEurotrash

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28 tandtheb1st Jun 2014 08:30:53 AM , Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
[up]I feel like when combined with the whole superhero trope, it becomes less vague. At any rate, since when has Word of God been needed to confirm a trope, especially one that's mildly sexist in nature? I don't mean to turn this into a discussion of feminism, but I don't really see any perpetrators of Damsel in Distress speaking for the entire trope. Of course it's an assumption, but it's one based on the variety of procedural shows I've seen and the types of characters that are often given masculine sounding last names vs. the ones with regular or more feminine ones. In the examples I've provided, six of the seven chicks had masculine sounding surnames, and only one had a feminine one (Morgan is fairly androgynous, but still). Actually, the only one with a feminine sounding last name was Stuffed into the Fridge.

Also, Blake is a very common first name. Reid not as much, but its ratio seems about equal. You're right though, I've never heard Rossi as a first name and I don't think I've ever even heard it as one. I don't know what I was thinking when I put that there :I. My bad.
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29 AnotherDuck1st Jun 2014 11:52:53 AM from Stockholm , Relationship Status: In season
No, the other one.
I think it's basically just the confusion about what counts as a surname or given name, which at least to me seems to be more of a general American thing than something tropeworthy.
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30 KyleJacobs19th Jun 2014 08:55:13 AM from DC - Southern efficiency, Northern charm , Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
Why don't we put Redneck Double Name through YKKTW with the type B description from the last page and nuke this already?
[up][up][up][up] ... You've never heard of Reid as a first name...?

Anyway, one question about this trope: are we talking about people who have a double first name and a last name (like Jim Bob Brady) or people who have a first name, then a last name commonly used as a first name? Because I see discussions about both in this thread so far, and they're completely different things.
32 Madrugada19th Jun 2014 08:01:10 PM , Relationship Status: In season
Currently the page is about people who have a single first name (Hal, or Jacqueline) and then a surname that is often used as a first name as well as a surname (David, or Suzanne).

The end result is a name that sounds like two first names (Hal David, or Jacqueline Suzanne). There doesn't seem to be a trope there, though, it looks like it's just something that happens.

So we're proposing making a trope for the use of a double first name (Joe-Don or Mary Lou) with a standard surname (like Briggs or Retton) to indicate that the character is either lower-class, Southern, or a hick.

edited 19th Jun '14 8:02:24 PM by Madrugada

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
Can we get a multiprop crowner up? I suppose the options would be "Cut Two First Names," "Start YKTTW for Redneck Name (redirect Two First Names to there)," and "Start YKTTW for Redneck Name and cut Two First Names."
Cut. Not tropeworthy.
35 Willbyr23rd Jun 2014 09:36:57 AM from North Little Rock, AR , Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
[up][up] Crowner's hooked, in the process of filling.

EDIT: Done.

edited 23rd Jun '14 9:38:32 AM by Willbyr

36 Madrugada23rd Jun 2014 10:43:01 AM , Relationship Status: In season
Two First Names has 266 inbounds. That's too many to break by cutting it completely. Redirecting it to the new trope makes much more sense.

edited 23rd Jun '14 10:43:29 AM by Madrugada

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
[up] basically we're reduced to one crowner option then?
38 Willbyr23rd Jun 2014 11:15:31 AM from North Little Rock, AR , Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
It does look that way; voted to reflect.
39 Madrugada23rd Jun 2014 11:18:02 AM , Relationship Status: In season
Unless someone comes up with another suggestion, yes.
...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
40 bwburke9424th Jun 2014 04:40:01 AM from Massachusetts , Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Bumbleby is canon, dammit.
I don't think limiting it to rednecks is a good course, because two-part first names aren't exclusive to rednecks. Limiting it would exclude Sarah Jane Smith, among others.
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41 Madrugada24th Jun 2014 05:53:43 AM , Relationship Status: In season
But just having two names isn't a trope. It doesn't carry any additional information. It's People Sit on Chairs, just like having a surname that can also be used as a first name is Chairs.

The trope, the trick of the trade, the convention is "double first names used to signal that the character is a redneck, a hick, or Southern".

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
I'm writing a book, and one of my characters has THREE first names (Casey Ellis Ashton). But it doesn't mean anything that he has three first names. The real joke lies that he has a Gender-Blender Name.

So I'm saying, the Two First Names trope can be nuked.

edited 24th Jun '14 7:23:22 AM by Tightwire

43 AnotherDuck24th Jun 2014 11:12:17 AM from Stockholm , Relationship Status: In season
No, the other one.
Having two (or more) first names is different from having a double first name. The former is often said to be a middle name, and isn't used most of the time, other than maybe in formal occasions (like on ID cards), but not something people would call that person. A double name is something like "Rose Marie" that in itself is treated like a single name. Never just "Rose" or just "Marie", but always "Rose Marie" (or "Rose-Marie").
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Could we just... not have Death anymore?
Sarah Jane is that type. If we do make a Redneck Name trope...
  • Doctor Who's Sarah Jane Smith is an aversion. Although she insists on being called "Sarah Jane", the program never suggests any "rural" heritage for her.
45 GnomeTitan24th Jun 2014 12:36:25 PM from Scandinavia , Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
[up]I think that's a cultural thing: the notion that people with two first names are of rural origin seems an American thing to me. I don't think that association is very common in Britain. And in France and the Scandinavian countries, double first names (often hyphenated) are quite common even in urban areas.
There's also the joke I mentioned earlier of characters saying "I don't trust people with two first names," but I'm not sure there would be enough examples to make it worthwhile to create.
Could we just... not have Death anymore?
[up][up] I'm sure it is a cultural thing. Names are highly culture-specific.
I've got a "christian name" for a surname. It never seemed particularly unusual.

As to the "double-barreled first name = redneck", in the UK it seems to me that there's a few specific combinations that have that connotation - Billy-Bob, Jim-Bob for example. Can't think of a stereotypical female redneck name right now.

sort-of on-topic:
49 Willbyr26th Jun 2014 06:23:38 AM from North Little Rock, AR , Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
[up] Linda Lou from Lynyrd Skynyrd's "Gimme Three Steps" immediately comes to mind.
50 Madrugada26th Jun 2014 06:33:36 AM , Relationship Status: In season
Betty Jo, Bobby Jo, and Billy Jo Bradley, the daughters on Petticoat Junction.

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.

Page Action: Two First Names
23rd Jun '14 9:36:15 AM
What would be the best way to fix the page?
At issue:

Total posts: 63
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