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Total posts: [57]
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Not Tropeworthy: Two First Names get usage counts

I see no benefit to a trope that is simply "This character has two first names." This is a real pattern, but the page as it is attaches no meaning to the practice, only noting that it's more common among superheroes. Because of this, literally every example on the page is a ZCE.

If anyone can think of a meaning behind this, maybe there's something here that can be salvaged, but as is it just needs to be cut.
 2 shimaspawn, Sun, 18th May '14 1:45:10 PM from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
There doesn't seem to be any meaning to it other than lots of last names seem to also be first names. It's very chairsy.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

-Philip K. Dick
 3 Madrugada, Sun, 18th May '14 1:51:38 PM Relationship Status: In season
Zzzzzzzzzz
I vote to cut.

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
Is the "I don't trust people with two first names" gag prevalent enough to change the definition to that?

 5 shimaspawn, Sun, 18th May '14 2:35:05 PM from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
Even if it was, it would require an entire new YKTTW since none of the page examples cover it. There's also the trope where they make fun of the south by giving characters names like Sue Ellen as a first name. It's a bit xenophobic, but at least it has more trope potential than this mess.

edited 18th May '14 2:37:43 PM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

-Philip K. Dick
 6 Willbyr, Sun, 18th May '14 8:17:56 PM from North Little Rock, AR Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Anime-ted
[up] I agree that that has more potential as a trope: "If a character has two first names, especially short ones like Jim Bob or Linda Lou, then it's a safe bet that he/she is from the South, and most likely a redneck or hillbilly."

edited 18th May '14 8:18:43 PM by Willbyr

 7 Another Duck, Mon, 19th May '14 1:44:02 AM from Stockholm Relationship Status: Chocolate!
No, the other one.
Well, it's a pattern, but there's nothing to it, as it's written.

edited 19th May '14 1:44:31 AM by AnotherDuck

Check out my fanfiction!
 8 Septimus Heap, Mon, 19th May '14 1:45:05 AM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Quasar
Cut this. If someone can find a trope feel free to put it in YKTTW.

With 200+ inbounds, I think that if we do create a new trope for Redneck Double Name or anything like that, it would be better to redirect this rather than cut it.

 10 Larkmarn, Mon, 19th May '14 5:26:16 AM Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
I've always hated this one. I never saw the point to it, especially since some of the "first names" are a stretch ("Nowlan"? "Hathaway"? "Gardner"? Even if those are sometimes first names, they're last names much, much, much more commonly).

Axe the sumbitch. Make a Redneck Name trope if you want, but it's barely related.

Crowner time, or do we have enough consensus to just nuke it from orbit?

edited 19th May '14 5:29:07 PM by Discar

 12 Larkmarn, Mon, 19th May '14 6:10:59 PM Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
It's certainly too soon to nuke from orbit, but if someone doesn't disagree in a few days it should be safe.

Definitely not a weirdo
I guess I'll add another vote to nuke it from orbit. I'm not seeing any real trope here.
 14 the Adeptrogue, Mon, 19th May '14 8:37:37 PM Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Same here. This doesn't look like a trope

 15 Lakija, Mon, 19th May '14 11:46:34 PM from Chicago Relationship Status: Drift compatible
Lakija
I always thought that the phrase "Never trust a man with two first names" indicated that he was dishonest, indecisive or flip-floppy. Or bland. Like salesman and business people usually would have this type of name.

I think it's about people with names like Billy Bob, or John Wayne.

But if the examples don't fit or make for a real trope, I dunno...

EDIT: I just watched an episode of Scandal and the characters remarked that this one man had three first names, and their general attitude toward him was of disdain and distrust. The setting? A backwoods town.

There's something to this trope. It needs a better description and an example cleanup.

edited 20th May '14 10:11:21 AM by Lakija

It is what it is.
 16 Lakija, Tue, 20th May '14 10:58:46 AM from Chicago Relationship Status: Drift compatible
Lakija
Possible description rewrite:

There are two distinct Types of characters with first names, and they are characterized differently. This trope manifests itself in these ways:

Type A: First Name+First Name as Last Name

A character with an ordinary first name, and a last name that could be a considered a common first name. Examples: Paul George, Jesse James, Ezra Fitz. Type As are characterized as being, at best, boring, mundane, or easily forgettable. Two first names are easily interchanged, confused, or sound like an alias. Type As have names that are simpler and mostly serve as placeholders, especially when the names belong to superheroes or people that have other monikers.

Type B: Two-part First Name

Billy Bob, Billy Joe, Jim Bob. Then females: Barbara Anne, Mary-Anne, Lilly Anne, etc. Type Bs are shown as being down-home southern types. At best, especially in regards to females, these types are hospitable, traditional, and generous. At worst, especially in regards to males, they are shown as untrustworthy, flakey, hokey or dishonest. These names are associated with hillibiles and rednecks.

Contrast Names to Run Away From Really Fast.

edited 20th May '14 1:03:44 PM by Lakija

It is what it is.
 17 Willbyr, Tue, 20th May '14 11:39:53 AM from North Little Rock, AR Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Anime-ted
[up] That's pretty good; for the Type B, I'd mention in the "at worst" that they tend to be very stereotypical rednecks and/or hillbillies. This is actually mentioned in that trope's description.

edited 20th May '14 11:41:46 AM by Willbyr

 18 Fighteer, Tue, 20th May '14 11:51:01 AM from the Time Vortex Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
I will EXTERMINATE your unhappiness!
The only tropeworthy part of this that I can see is the double first name indicating that someone is a redneck or hillbilly. The other usages are little more than a walking invitation for ZCEs.

edited 20th May '14 11:51:12 AM by Fighteer

 19 Lakija, Tue, 20th May '14 1:00:27 PM from Chicago Relationship Status: Drift compatible
Lakija
But there are whole shows where entire casts only have Two First Names names. There is some kind of pattern there, I think.
It is what it is.
 20 Madrugada, Tue, 20th May '14 1:27:48 PM Relationship Status: In season
Zzzzzzzzzz
The only pattern present in Type A (and we're trying to move away form type categories on trope pages, by the way) is that many names that were previously only used as surnames have come into use as first names as well (Washington, Newton, ) and that many common first names are also used as surnames and have been for quite a long time (James, George, Heath...)

edited 20th May '14 1:28:00 PM by Madrugada

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
 21 Fighteer, Tue, 20th May '14 1:28:54 PM from the Time Vortex Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
I will EXTERMINATE your unhappiness!
It's a pattern, but it lacks narrative significance. Unless you can prove a definitive correlation between the naming convention and some aspect of characterization or plot.
 22 shimaspawn, Tue, 20th May '14 2:40:56 PM from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
Yeah, as for the two, definitions, A isn't a trope. It's just chairs. Only B is a trope.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

-Philip K. Dick
 23 Fighteer, Tue, 20th May '14 6:25:53 PM from the Time Vortex Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
I will EXTERMINATE your unhappiness!
I wonder if we need variants of People Sit on Chairs: People Have Names and People Wear Clothes.
 24 Madrugada, Tue, 20th May '14 8:24:47 PM Relationship Status: In season
Zzzzzzzzzz
Redirects Are Free, and those two might help.
...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
 25 Lakija, Tue, 20th May '14 11:25:58 PM from Chicago Relationship Status: Drift compatible
Lakija
Yeah you guys are right. Well, at least the second one is feasible enough.
It is what it is.

Page Action: Two First Names
23rd Jun '14 9:36:15 AM
What would be the best way to fix the page?
At issue:
Total posts: 57
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