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East Asia News & Politics Thread: China, South Korea, Japan...

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Quag15 Since: Mar, 2012
#1: May 8th 2014 at 8:38:17 PM

As we all know, East Asia is one of the parts of world which is getting more and more coverage. As China becomes a greater economical powerhouse, as South Korea also grows and Japan manages to stay a bit afloat, the impact of this region becomes ever more vital for the whole world.

That being said, this thread is for news and political issues involving the following nations and territories:

China (that includes Hong Kong and Macau); Taiwan; South Korea; Japan; and Mongolia.

Keep in mind a few things:

- North Korea is also part of East Asia, but it has its own thread.

- You can post news about Vietnam here, since it's culturally linked to East Asia, in spite of being linked geographically to Southeast Asia. In case you want to post news about Vietnam in the Southeast Asia thread, here it is.

- Any news and discussions pertaining to past and current maritime disputes involving Asian countries must be posted in this thread.

- And now, what is perhaps the most important point: there shall no nationalistic/jingoistic/Cultural Posturing in this thread. We don't want any flame wars in this thread, in order to keep it civil and respectful. It is also for the best to post current news and topics, in order to avoid unhealthy discussions about World War II.

We have a lot to talk about/discuss...

edited 27th Sep '14 8:12:53 AM by Quag15

Ominae Organized Canine Bureau Special Agent Since: Jul, 2010
Organized Canine Bureau Special Agent
#2: May 8th 2014 at 10:33:15 PM

To those living in Hong Kong and the Philippines/those familiar with the hostage crisis in Manila in 2010, ex-President Joseph Estrada has led a team to Hong Kong to amend ties by talking to the Hong Kong CEO and settle things. He's the current mayor of Manila and thus, this makes it a personal matter to him since he used to be the mayor in the Cold War back in the day.

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2014/04/23/hong-kong-philippines-end-hostage-row

http://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/2014/04/24/hong-kong-philippines-mend-fences-over-bus-hostage-incident/

"Exit muna si Polgas. Ang kailangan dito ay si Dobermaxx!"
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#4: May 9th 2014 at 6:53:56 AM

Why do I get a "vanity project" vibe from that "Silk Road" project?

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Quag15 Since: Mar, 2012
#5: May 9th 2014 at 6:58:48 AM

[up]Possibly in order to distract the people from their own problems at home and to say "See how we're great? The world needs us and these routes".

It's odd that the land route goes through Northern Iraq and passes through the border between Syria and Turkey, since those parts aren't stabilised yet (not to mention China's Xinjiang area). Unless China plans to attract them towards their sphere of trade, which will lead to better security in terms of protecting those parts.

edited 9th May '14 7:01:42 AM by Quag15

Exploder Pretending to be human Since: Jan, 2001
Pretending to be human
#6: May 9th 2014 at 9:37:38 AM

Since we have this thread now...anyone ever encounter hardline pro-China people on the internet who are English-speaking but also rabidly anti-Western and anti-Japanese? And also hateful of the concept of democracy?

Especially since I came across a blog that's apparently run by Chinese-Americans, but are very pro-China (read: pro-Communist Party) and believe any and all Western media coverage of China is biased or wrong, and that the West, especially America, is out to destroy China, and that white people are inherently racist against Chinese. And that's not even getting into what they say about Japan ("They never really became peaceful after 1945, they will kill all Chinese again if they can") or democracy ("A bullshit Western concept shoved down everyone's throats").

I know nationalists exist everywhere, but I guess I find their stance on Japan and democracy particularly disturbing somehow, and I would absolutely never associate with such people.

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#7: May 9th 2014 at 9:38:46 AM

I have to wonder how many of these are people working on behalf of the Chinese government.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Quag15 Since: Mar, 2012
#8: May 9th 2014 at 12:17:36 PM

[up][up]Those people are probably a fringe minority with an inferiority complex.

edited 9th May '14 12:17:45 PM by Quag15

Ominae Organized Canine Bureau Special Agent Since: Jul, 2010
Organized Canine Bureau Special Agent
#10: May 9th 2014 at 8:08:34 PM

[up]

It may be a relief to restore Philippine-Hong Kong relations, but some local netizens fear that when a disaster is perpetrated in local territory involving foreigners, the said country may take the opportunity to use it and trample on them.

"Exit muna si Polgas. Ang kailangan dito ay si Dobermaxx!"
Quag15 Since: Mar, 2012
#11: May 9th 2014 at 8:37:56 PM

[up]Understandable. Since Hong Kong is part of China, and China doesn't have the finest reputation when it comes to respecting other countries' sovereignity and maritime areas...

IraTheSquire Since: Apr, 2010
#13: May 10th 2014 at 6:07:31 AM

Understandable. Since Hong Kong is part of China, and China doesn't have the finest reputation when it comes to respecting other countries' sovereignity and maritime areas...

That's... oversimplifying it a bit.

Sure, HKSAR is part of the PRC, but she has her own currency, (most importantly and theoretically) independent government, legislative and judiciary systems. It is unfortunate that the only thing in HK the PRC is responsible for is anything that involves foreign policy (like diplomacy, defence, etc).

The reason why I said "theoretically" is also the reason why I'm clearing this up. Let's just say people in Hong Kong at the moment are... less than pleased with what the PRC is doing with Hong Kong.

Quag15 Since: Mar, 2012
#14: May 10th 2014 at 7:31:30 AM

Agreed. After all, the matter between Hong Kong and the Philippines is, after all, within the realms of foreign policy and diplomacy of the PRC.

edited 10th May '14 7:31:44 AM by Quag15

Quag15 Since: Mar, 2012
#15: May 12th 2014 at 2:05:23 PM

In Africa, Li Keqiang Refutes Charge of Chinese ‘Neo-Colonialism’.

While speaking at a World Economic Forum in Nigeria, Li promised to devote “more than half of its foreign aid to Africa,” with no conditions attached to the funding. Li pledged China’s friendship to Africa, and reiterated Chinese support for Africa playing a larger role in world politics as it continues to develop. Li also stressed that China “will never attach political conditions to its assistance to Africa and will never use its aid programs to interfere in the internal affairs of African countries,” a tacit criticism of Western countries who often refuse to provide funding to countries seen as human rights violators.

Li Keqiang also acknowledged in a speech that China-Africa relations have encountered some “growing pains,” a nod to tensions in some African countries over issues such as illegal Chinese mining operations and resentment against local Chinese traders. But Xinhua was quick to emphasize that these “growing pains” are “problems that inevitably occur during the development of relations” — meaning no one (especially not China) is to blame.

Like Xinhua, Li was at pains to combat perceptions of China acting as a “neo-colonial” power in Africa. His tour largely ignored the question of resource exploitation, and instead emphasized China-Africa cooperation in fields such as infrastructure, training and education, poverty reduction, environmental protection, and cultural exchange. When discussing Chinese projects within Africa, the focus was on how China was reducing unemployment. “China has always tried to transfer the industries best suitable for Africa, especially the labor-intensive ones, so as to create more jobs in the continent,” Xinhua said in a review of Li’s trip.

Achaemenid HGW XX/7 from Ruschestraße 103, Haus 1 Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
HGW XX/7
#16: May 12th 2014 at 2:07:31 PM

Zapiro has a couple of excellent cartoons on the matter.

Schild und Schwert der Partei
Culminus I don't culminate! Since: Feb, 2013 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
I don't culminate!
#17: May 12th 2014 at 2:20:39 PM

[up]I'll put this bluntly: particularly since WW2, while the majority of the world left Africa to rot and kept on saying it's riddled with HIV, civil wars and lots of things, China has been spending years trying to revitalize it directly instead of just, I dunno, THROW money at it and expect it to be happy. If giving it technical help, industrial construction and things it doesn't have is called colonism, then I don't understand WHY Hollywood isn't just some form of cultural invasion department. Period.

Same as usual.... Wing it.
Achaemenid HGW XX/7 from Ruschestraße 103, Haus 1 Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
HGW XX/7
#18: May 12th 2014 at 2:32:37 PM

What on earth are you on about?

Schild und Schwert der Partei
IraTheSquire Since: Apr, 2010
#19: May 12th 2014 at 2:44:16 PM

[up][up] While that might be the case, I'm not sure 1) if the PRC is doing it correctly (I've been hearing things like requiring the Africans to hire mostly Chinese workers and such) and 2) if there are problems they should be addressed and corrected before history repeats itself with the Chinese in place of the Europeans.

Achaemenid HGW XX/7 from Ruschestraße 103, Haus 1 Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
HGW XX/7
#20: May 12th 2014 at 2:49:23 PM

A lot of Chinese economic activity in Africa is shady as hell; the primary point of it is to try and bring about Chinese control/influence over Africa's resources (since China is understandably resource-hungry) and create markets for Chinese products. Their political influence in particular is worrying, as are the practices of Chinese companies in the region.

That's not to say that the Western model of giving governments aid and letting them allocate it has been delivering results, but the idea that Chinese "investment" is some kind of philanthropic project is bunkum. China donates very little to Africa; Africa has to work for it's help...and work to Chinese rules.

edited 12th May '14 2:50:07 PM by Achaemenid

Schild und Schwert der Partei
Jauce Since: Oct, 2010
#21: May 12th 2014 at 4:30:50 PM

Now, that's not being fair to China. When other countries set up factories and businesses in Africa, we laud them for bringing prosperity and development.. but when the Chinese does it we accuse them of exploitation?

It's true that China is motivated by self-interest, not altruism, but it would naive to believe that countries giving foreign aid are not also primarily motivated by self-interest.

Quag15 Since: Mar, 2012
#22: May 12th 2014 at 4:38:24 PM

I think every big nation that invests in Africa definitely have self-interests (and vested interests) as a major reason.

Problem is, there is always something wrong or bad happening in several African countries. Both happen by fault of Western nations and China and by corrupt governments of the majority of said African countries.

Achaemenid HGW XX/7 from Ruschestraße 103, Haus 1 Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
HGW XX/7
#23: May 12th 2014 at 4:45:10 PM

[up][up]

To a degree, there's no such thing as an unselfish act in international relations. Even charity or disaster relief is excellent at building soft power; how many people might have re-assessed their opinion of America's global power when they saw USS George Washington giving out food parcels after Typhoon Haiyan? Another example would be British intervention in Sierra Leone in 2000, which was done for no reasons other than lingering colonial paternalism and because it was the right thing to do, but which still produced a great deal of goodwill towards Britain in the struggling country.

On the other hand, that doesn't mean all such acts are motivated at their core by self-interest, or that a self-interested international posture is a good thing "because everyone else is doing it". A good deal of Western aid to Africa; especially from Europe, is in the form of untied aid - free money in essence. It has it's own set of problems, and indeed is also motivated by self-interest (to a point), but there seems to be a clear gulf between that and China's investment in Africa for the benefit of Chinese resource extraction.

edited 12th May '14 4:45:22 PM by Achaemenid

Schild und Schwert der Partei
demarquis Who Am I? from Hell, USA Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Buried in snow, waiting for spring
Who Am I?
#24: May 12th 2014 at 5:24:47 PM

China's investments are motivated by self-interest, to be sure. On the other hand, I have seen no hard evidence that their practices are really any more extractive than those of the West. Surely it's a good thing for Africa to have more competition enter their markets.

"We learn from history that we do not learn from history."
IraTheSquire Since: Apr, 2010
#25: May 12th 2014 at 5:47:04 PM

Also, the fact that "everyone else is going it" doesn't mean that the PRC should follow. In fact, I'd say that the PRC should do better since "everyone else" has caused problems that have consequences today. To make a mistake is bad. To repeat a mistake done by other people is just plain stupid on top. That just means that there's a missed opportunity for actual change.


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