General Autism Discussion

I consider high-functioning autism and Aspergers to be the same thing, so I will be using the terms "autism" and "Aspergers" or HFA and Aspergers interchangeably.

Anyway, this is meant to be a discussion thread on the condition(s) in general, rather than discussing a particular news story or subtopic.

But I'll start it off. I read something that infuriated me. A 16-year-old autistic boy who was "friends" with two girls - one 15 and one 17 - was abused by them many times. He believed the 15-year-old girl to be his girlfriend, and what did the two do? They made him walk on thin ice and had him fall in the water, gave him a ride home while in the trunk of one girl's car, tricked him into shaving his eyebrows, and more. They filmed some of the abuse, providing plentiful evidence for the court. The two girls were eventually arrested - the older one may be charged as an adult for an incident where she tried to force him into [a sex act].

And the boy doesn't want to press charges. He's angry at whoever "ratted" them out, and says he wants to resume his "relationship" and he'll just ask them not to videotape him.

His dad says that it's embarrassing the degree to which he defends his abusers, and that his son is more disabled than he thought.

It reminds me of when I was in elementary school, when I would defend people who were making fun of me in a way I couldn't detect but not being explicitly physically abusive. This guy is older than I was and was being physically abused, and it really should have been obvious to him, but again, a different form of autism.

Anyway, I'll open the thread with that. There are a lot of things I want to discuss, like whether or not autim rates are increasing or instead it's totally a matter of autistics from past generations having been misdiagnosed their whole lives and therefore "invisible" (a large British study indicated that was the case), and if autism is a form of human evolution. Things like that.

On the mixing terms thing that's something that's starting to move into medical speak to, when I went to the doctors and we discussed an Aspergers diagnosis for me they mentioned that you don't get a diagnosis for either Aspergers or Autism anymore, over here you simply get an Autistic Spectrum Disorder diagnosis and I figure they list you somewhere along the spectrum, which seams to make more sense.

As for the case you're talking about, I've heard of similar situations. A girl I once knew is apparently doing something very similar with a special needs by at her school, I guess it can be a lot easier to play ASD people for fools that way.

Part of it may not be the ASD, it may in part be loneliness, when you're the kid who never had friends it's very easy to give in and take what you can, even if the people do abuse and hurt you the thought process goes that it's better than being alone.

Wasn't Asperger's removed from the latest diagnosis book anyway?

It looks like the two girls are being charged, one of them as an adult. They wont be abusing anyone else anytime soon. And the publicity around this case is likely creating the opportunity for discussions around this issue in communities everywhere. And I have to imagine that regardless of his condition, the boy involved must be engaging in some serious self-reflection regarding how he relates to other people. So ultimately some good is going to come out if it.

I hate to say this, but I don't think the boy is going to realize how abusive the relationship is for years to come. Some people on the spectrum can be very dense with certain types of things. We all "mature" at different rates. It took me a long time to grasp symbolism, for instance. I didn't understand fucking symbolism in literature at all, and I thought it was stupid. I didn't get it in high school or college. But I understand it now. I understand subtext. It just took longer for me than most people.

Okay, is autism on the rise, or is the idea that it is an illusion brought upon by better detection?

A British study showed supposedly the same rate of autism in the adult population as in the young. But in the US, we have cases like Silicon Valley, where there's been a massive spike in autism in kids. Speculation about this is that Silicon Valley has workplaces where smart nerds meet other smart nerds, they marry, and they have kids. Some of these nerds are undiagnosed on the spectrum, and they pass their genes on.

If this is the case, is a future with lots of autism (hopefully high functioning; I'd hope that whatever causes it to manifest in a low-functioning form is discovered and dealt with so they'd be born high-functioning instead) inevitable? Is it really true that autism is a possible next step in human evolution?

I'd love to see a society that has adapted and changed to fit the needs and strengths of those with autism. Imagine a workplace where rather than some alpha asshole with great social skills walking in through the door, being a dick to everyone else, and advancing in the ranks by asskissing, we instead get people hired based on - get this - their abililty to do the job. And they don't get fired for not having "soft skills" or being able to make watercooler converation or coming across as "weird and creepy" just for being different. Some offices are starting to make this change, or at least, trying to find good jobs for people with autism, recognizing them as having skills and not simply people to hire just to be nice to the disabled.

If autistics become more accepted, it could result in them actually becoming, over time, desirable marriage partners to more people, which will result in more autism genes being passed on.

To my knowledge, yeah, most of the rise is blamed on the diagnostic criteria changing.

If there is another component to the rise, I would be interested in knowing what it is.

Different rates have been found in different countries, but that could be also the result of many countries not knowing how to diagnose it.

However, very high rates (like 1 in 55 several years ago) were found in Japan! One possible explanation given was that in Japan, shy quiet men are more socially acceptable than in other countries. So, autistic males are more likely to actually be able to find a marriage partner, and pass on their genes.

As the Silicon Valley case shows, I am convinced there is a genetic component to autism. If so, I think it's inevitable, unless a way to prevent it (and I DON'T want that) is discovered. Hopefully they'll find a way to convert it from low-functioning to high-functioning and/or prevent it from presenting in a low-functioning form.

This is pure speculation, but Autism is largely a disorder that affects interpersonal and emotional management skills. It largely affects how you relate to the people around you. I have to believe that as society becomes more complex, autism spectrum disorders become more noticable, because an ever greater premium is placed upon success in managing large numbers of informal social relationships. Nowadays, casual interpersonal interactions is how you find a job, a spouse, pretty much anything. Autism may not have had as severe an effect on life outcome in times and places where interpersonal relationships are simpler and more predictable. I would have to think that Silicon Valley, and Japan, are two places where social relations are highly complex (for entirely different reasons) and being autistic to any degree will cause you to stand right out.

So in other words, you're saying that the reason for autism being so diagnosed in those places is because it's more noticeable, not because it's more common?

I can't imagine Silicon Valley being a place where very complex social interactions are common when compared to other parts of the US. Plus, the parents of autistics in Silicon Valley often end up getting diagnosed with a higher-functioning form of it themselves. Therefore, I do still think there is a genetic component there.

There very likely is a genetic component as well. I guess I cant speak to Silicon Valley specifically, but in terms of the rise in rates across the US recently, I would be shocked if some sort of recognition factor weren't going on as well.

"going on as well" - yes, it's definitely being recognized more. No denying that. More people know what it is, and finally recognize high-functioning autism as being on the spectrum.

But the question is still if there's a genetic component or something else, and if it's genuinely on the rise.

There is certainly a genetic component to some cases of autism/Asperger. Not necessarily to all.

I've seen a guy with high functioning autism before, and I'd find it hard to believe that there was no genetic component involved in his behavior. The only other explanation might have been if he'd suffered brain damage, but he hadn't.

I remember him pretty well—always making weird sounds at the top of his lungs with no understanding of how socially acceptable it was, vigorously rotating his arms in wide circles for no apparent reason, and it was pretty much impossible to carry out a complex conversation with him. He responded to one word inputs, but only if you repeated yourself a couple of times to gain his attention. He spent most of his time starting into space with a blank look in his eye, though he was always smiling, or at least making happy sounds.

Overall, he was basically regarded as a child by everyone, despite looking like he was in his late 20s. Most of us actually liked him. He was surprisingly polite in his limited speech despite his condition. His mother raised him pretty well.

In any case, he'd been like that for his entire life with no evidence of any kind of extreme trauma to set him off at that age, so I have to hazard that the condition was primarily genetic.

That doesn't really mean it's genetic.

Yeah, things can still happen pre-birth without them being genetic, a lot of it is meant to be growth in the womb stuff that we don't understand isn't it?

Also that doesn't sound particularly high functioning to me, my understanding of high functioning was bring able to act and interact with society at large as an adult, even if often as a bit of a weird one.

Brain or developmental damage in the womb isn't out of the question, sure. What I really doubt though, is that a condition like that would develop in someone without there being something physically wrong/different with the brain itself—that there's a predisposition to it from the get go.

edited 23rd Apr '14 5:23:06 PM by Vellup

Uh... Vellup... what you described came across strongly as low-functioning. Or, on a really good day... mid-table. <_<

edited 23rd Apr '14 5:27:12 PM by Euodiachloris

I'm no professional at autism psychology, so you're probably right.

If that's low functioning though, high functioning must be pretty darn severe.

High functioning means that the person functions pretty well.

High functioning means they're more normal and able to function in everyday-live, not less.

Edit:

edited 23rd Apr '14 5:42:14 PM by Antiteilchen

High functioning means you have an easier time interacting in society. You have a high ability to function in society. It's the less severe version. Low functioning means that you have low ability to function in society.

Oh, *that's* what everyone was on about. I didn't realize the mistake I was making was *that* simple and a matter of just switching two words. My bad.

edited 23rd Apr '14 5:46:30 PM by Vellup

Examples of high functioning would be those of us in this thread who have some form or autism/Aspergers, we're actually relatively normal people [insert joke about how we're actually nutters here].

Most of you guys know I work in a mental institution. I work with all ages and genders butmy home unit is young boys under 18.

Many, I would say at least half of our 1500 patients have some form of autism.

The one thing that I see consistently is how many of my immediate care patients would be able to do a lot more if their parents and families would have just put them in special Ed or set up therapies for them instead of treating them that they were broken and incapable.

Example: just because someone is so Autistic they cannot speak doesn't mean that they cannot function to the most capacity in other areas.

I think this attitude is accidentally perpetuated by a small but vocal segment of the population that uses Autism as a crutch or an excuse either for themselves or their family member's Ill behavior. Not all of this is malicious all the time or intentionally repressive, but at least America and especially the deep south Bible belt has a lot of generational stupidity to deal with when it comes to disorders.

Example: I can't get this hippie parent set to realize that a gluten free diet isn't going to cure their 12 year olds autism. You're just starving the poor boy who refuses to eat half that crap because it tastes disgusting.