Building off the work of others

Let's say you borrow something important from another author's work. Something more specific than characters, genre or formula, maybe even specific enough for someone to look at your work and say "isn't that X?" Almost like if someone wrote a new story about a masked Badass Normal vigilante fighting crime in one of America's most improbably skeevy cities using the power of money, but didn't call it "Gotham" or their hero "Batman". Basically, something so similar it's spooky, similar enough even that, if pressured, it would be impossible for the author to deny they derived their inspiration from anywhere else.

But then they do something completely different with it. Improve on it, even.

Does it still qualify as plagiarism so long as none of the names stay the same?

edited 13th Apr '14 2:10:13 PM by KSPAM

Either plagiarism or homage, depending on whether they acknowledge the source material and how major the changes in tone and execution are.

Or a Deconstruction or Reconstruction if they're doing it to point out the flaws or add realism or whatever.

edited 13th Apr '14 3:55:14 PM by Wheezy

It stops being plagiarism (Taking the work of others and attempting to pass it off as one's own. To be plagiarized, the text, characters or ideas must be used without crediting the original author for their work) when the changes are substantial, so if you lift the setting and character types, but change the plots or the character dynamics, it's not plagiarism.

It could be an Homage (Homage (literally, an honor or tribute) is the deliberate, but respectful, recreation of one work of fiction within the context of another.), a Pastiche (a work done in the style of another artist. A pastiche copies the tone and flavor of its original), or Inspired by… (the source material has been significantly altered. At least it will still be discernible, though you may have to squint a little), depending on how you handle it.

edited 13th Apr '14 4:03:11 PM by Madrugada

Below is a TL:DR version of what you may get your answers from on the Shout Out vs Rip Off discussion.

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13630118910A14781700&page=1#25

It could also be seen as a knock off the same as a game like Saints Row was seen as very similar to Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas, it did enough and improved enough for it to stand on it's own which may be what you are going for.

I don't claim to be an expert on writing and copyright, I try to be a good writer, and I certainly wouldn't tell you what to do, but if you thought of the idea and story yourself rather than just take off Batman with a few changes then you could certainly draw on it for ideas and inspiration.

To use my own example I wanted to do a story on youth crime. I wanted to set it in Geelong or an analogue of it. It would of course center on the Victoria police and be highly respectful and as accurate as I can make it. Rather than just make it a Bully Hunter fantasy I brought in the murder of a transsexual sex worker and the police investigating that crime, seriously working on the tender way they handle the victim's family, those who work in the profession, then have the gang elements branch off that and look at the lives of the officers involved. Now those who are knowledgeable may think Blue Heelers or Underbelly but I didn't set out to make my story a missing episode, it was a story that began before Underbelly came out (yes, I had in fact been working on it for over six years because I want to get it as right as I can) and would be closer to the real life crime books that were the inspiration for Underbelly, telling a fictional story but one based on the very real event of a youth gang who had a city living in terror. Basically a fictional portrayal of a group known as the Adidas gang for the clothing they wore, how they ran rampant in everything from holding up stores then reselling what they stole on the street to coward punch assaults, rampages, how it was so bad New York and Los Angeles were considered safer, and the claims of victimization when the Indigenous members of the gang were held to account, all a true story, so I myself in a way am taking off or plagiarizing an event of something that really happened as opposed to a fictional work.

I'll give a specific example of one idea I did have. There was a Heelers episode where there was this mongrel dog of a house owner, who had a derelict home he never used but was so upset there were squatters there he went to bulldoze the house with them in it despite the police trying to stop him. A little spoiler in my book is late into it there is a police shooting, and the idea I had was it's suggested the officer involved in the shooting talk to a colleague who actually was awarded a medal because he had to shoot and kill someone to save lives, specifically a man who for all intents and purposes would be the same man from the Heelers episode in the process of firebombing a house killing the occupants in it. That example in particular, it was suggested, would at the very least be very close to the bone.

edited 13th Apr '14 4:35:44 PM by tsstevens

I guess I have a question about this too.

I am thinking of writing a story that's very similar to Complacency of the Learned. However, Complacency of the Learned is not a real book, it's a book mentioned in a comic that's been given a synopsis and an absurdly purple prosed excerpt. If I write a book whose plot is based off of a book that does not exist, is this... smelly? Otherwise awful? I guess is the question.

Less smelly than borrowing more than 50% of someone else's setting wholesale like I'm planning on doing

There's a book I have on this whole topic I feel might be applicable here. Or, at the very least, it might give you something to think about in answering this for yourself. It's called Steal like an Artist & it has a nice contrast between Good Theft vs. Bad Theft.

Good Theft honors what it takes from. Bad theft degrades it. Good theft truly studies what it's taking from, truly understands the work as well as the mindsets behind it. They come to see things as creators did & see how that influences them. Bad theft is just skimming. Good theft steals from many different things. Bad theft just takes from one. Good theft gives credit where credit is due. Bad theft is just plagiarism, passing it off as one's own brilliance. Good theft transforms things into something that becomes one's own spirit as an artist. Bad theft is just an imitation. Good theft is like a remix. Bad theft is a ripoff.