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Ambiguous Name: Shamgri La
Deadlock Clock: 9th Apr '14 11:59 PM
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Ambiguous Name: Shamgri La get usage counts

The name seems to indicate that the Shangri-La in question is fake, hence "sham", but the trope description does not include any hint of deception. Lost Horizon is cited as the Trope Namer, but in the novel and in the film Shangri-La is entirely legit.

I noticed this while editing the trope page for the 1937 film. Most of the examples, including Lost Horizon, do not seem to involve any deception that would merit the word "sham". It would seem that a rename to simply Shangri-La is appropriate.

 2 StarSword, Sun, 2nd Mar '14 12:54:50 AM from somewhere in deep space Relationship Status: In denial
SF-81A Black Knight
Based on Shamgri La Discussion, you're not alone in thinking that.
Seems clear to me, the "sham" part means that the representation of Shangri-La is fake, not that it itself is. I don't feel right about giving it such a generic name as what it is, the amount of false inbounds wouldn't help.

 4 Septimus Heap, Sun, 2nd Mar '14 1:03:41 AM from Muggio Valley, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Puʻu ʻŌʻō
The problem is that Shangri-La already refers to a fictional location, akin to Atlantis. So what does the "sham" do? Nothing.

Could just call it "Shangri-La" then if it's a fictitious locale, just it's a bit flat for a name.

How is "Shangri-La" generic? It's the Trope Namer.

Other suggestions for names?

Ecce Homo Superior
I agree that this is misleading and needs changing. (It doesn't help that I first came across it on a page for a work, TaleSpin, that did in fact have a sham Shangri-La.)

Just changing it to Shangri-La works for me.
(it's David Bowie)
[up]If there are enough examples out there for an actual "Shamgri-La" trope—presumably, a supposed Utopia that in fact is something deceptive and sinister—that trope could be created under the name Shamgri-La, but that would be a project for YKTTW.

 9 Madrugada, Sun, 2nd Mar '14 12:19:06 PM Relationship Status: In season
Zzzzzzzzzz
I agree that the name is misleading. Like the others here have said, I read the name and assumed that it was a false Shangri-la. I suspect it was named Shamgri-La to avoid colliding with the work the name came from — one easy way to use the correct term and stall avoid the collision is to make it "The Shangri-La"
'He strutted across the bedroom, his hard manhood pointing the way' sounds like he owns a badly named seeing-eye dog. 'Sit, Hard Manhood!
[up]The Shangri-La, I like that.

Ecce Homo Superior
[up][up]The work is called Lost Horizon, though.

Still, The Shangri-La does sound better, showing that it's about the Shangri-La archetype, whether or not it actually uses that name.

[up][up][up]That would probably fall under Crapsaccharine World or Town with a Dark Secret, unless there are enough examples for it to qualify as a subtrope.

edited 2nd Mar '14 1:26:34 PM by DoktorvonEurotrash

(it's David Bowie)
I wonder if it wasn't a case of accidental misspelling when the trope was first launched. "m" and "n" are adjacent, and similar enough if you just glance at the URL.
Still new. Still learning. Asking questions and making mistakes.
[up]So, Hanlon's Razor then? Sounds reasonable, actually...

 14 Madrugada, Sun, 2nd Mar '14 6:54:47 PM Relationship Status: In season
Zzzzzzzzzz
Nope, it appears it was deliberate... From the archived discussion page:

Arbane: I thought it was usually spelled "Shangri-La"?
Evil Midnight Lurker: I have never in my life seen it spelled with an M. What's the deal here?
Ninjacrat: It's a pun. 'Sham'. 'Shangri-la'. Geddit? See the other titles in Hollywood Atlas.
'He strutted across the bedroom, his hard manhood pointing the way' sounds like he owns a badly named seeing-eye dog. 'Sit, Hard Manhood!
NVM

edited 3rd Mar '14 5:41:40 AM by tryrar

From that context it seems a shoehorned pun that was used to make it a pun, just to make it a pun.
Still new. Still learning. Asking questions and making mistakes.
 17 StarSword, Mon, 3rd Mar '14 11:05:23 AM from somewhere in deep space Relationship Status: In denial
SF-81A Black Knight
[up]My thoughts exactly. It fails the Clear, Concise, Witty test because it's unclear and the pun doesn't say anything witty about the trope.

Move to split between Shangri-La or The Shangri-La for straight uses and Shamgri-La for "fake Shangri-La".
 18 the Adeptrogue, Mon, 3rd Mar '14 5:58:16 PM Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
[up]And what aspect of Shamgri-La is not already covered by Crapsaccharine World or Town with a Dark Secret?

edited 3rd Mar '14 6:21:33 PM by theAdeptrogue

The quote from the discussion page says that the current fits the pattern established by the other Hollywood Atlas names. Should we be looking at those too, or leaving this one alone?

 20 Septimus Heap, Tue, 4th Mar '14 2:03:46 AM from Muggio Valley, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Puʻu ʻŌʻō
Nah. These pages frequently cover Hollywood versions of real places; this one is about a purely fictional place.

Ecce Homo Superior
[up]Agreed.
(it's David Bowie)
Then maybe this trope should be redefined to fit the rest of the Hollywood Atlas list (i.e. false Shangri-La). If the current description has enough detail that it's indisputable whether a setting is "supposed" to be a Shangri-La or not, we could make a new trope for the current definition.

 23 Madrugada, Wed, 5th Mar '14 7:11:16 AM Relationship Status: In season
Zzzzzzzzzz
Hollywood Atlas settings aren't all "false". Some of them are inaccurate to Real Life because they're oversimplified, but they aren't all false.

Additionally, most of the other Hollywood Atlas names aren't puns, and aren't misleading, so "It follows the format of many of those names" is just not true.

edited 5th Mar '14 7:12:31 AM by Madrugada

'He strutted across the bedroom, his hard manhood pointing the way' sounds like he owns a badly named seeing-eye dog. 'Sit, Hard Manhood!
Hollywood Atlas is inaccurate descriptions of real places, except for Atlantis, and not that I look at it I wonder how Atlantis got on there.

 25 Willbyr, Sun, 6th Apr '14 6:30:22 AM from North Little Rock, AR Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
With Mod Hat On
Clock is set.
Total posts: 53
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