YuGiOh Troper Format Thread

This is the thread where we will discuss and organize our own ban list. The problem with Konami's ban list is that it's primary purpose is to make money. We however want to create a ban list that is focused on actually balancing out the game and bringin' the majority of decks to around the same level.

Here's the ban list for the upcomin' format. It's a nice base to work off of.

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Quick question: Is the aim of this to balance the Troper meta or the general meta? If the former, I think this list will focus mainly on unbanning things as most Tropers don't seem like they abuse overpowered cards. If the latter, I see that there will likely be a mix of hitting and unhitting cards.

SOME STANDARD TERMS AND SHIT LIKE THAT

• Banned without further testing: The banhammer has given you a whoopin', son. Forbidden.
• Limited testing: I guess we can give it a shot. Limited for a limited time (hurrrrrrrr) and an eventual vote.
• Semi-Limited testing: Maybe it'll be fine...? Semi-limited for a limited time and an eventual vote.
• Unlimited testing: This seems fair. Unlimited for a limited time and an eventual vote.

Other than these terms I'd say we just say Limited, Semi-Limited, and Unlimited.

CURRENT TESTING SUBJECTS

• Cyber Jar @ 1
• Dark Magician of Chaos @ 1
• Elemental HERO Stratos @ 1
• Card #4
• Card #5

edited 29th Dec '13 4:58:25 PM by EviIPaladin

"Evii is right though" -Saturn "I didn't know you were a bitch Evii." -Lior Val

I would say the latter as we want to improve the game in general.

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I guess we should start by discussing what's currently on the list?

Okay, here's some of my suggestions made so far.

Edits to the Jan-Apr 2014 banlist (and rationale):
Ban

• -

Limit

• Fire Formation - Tenki (strong toolbox for specific top decks only)
• Thousand Eyes Restrict (is it really that broken anymore?)
• Trishula, Dragon of the Ice Barrier (is it really that broken anymore?)

Semi-limit

• Deep Sea Diva (hit the Mermails that actually abuse it, not everything that can use it just to keep up)
• Final Countdown (a valid alternate win condition in singles duels that still has to be thought around)
• Bottomless Trap Hole (neutral response to make sure you don't get run over)
• Torrential Tribute (neutral response to make sure you don't get run over)
• Wall of Revealing Light (was it ever really that broken?)
• Tour Guide from the Underworld (minor hit that is intended to prevent abuse by top tier)
• Gold Sarcophagus (the stuff that abuses it got hit)

Unlimit

• Macro Cosmos (it wasn't that broken, can be countered by many things, and provides an alternate playstyle)

Other suggested edits:
Limit

• Rekindling (a +4 that can go into almost anything)
• Royal Magical Library (solely used for OTK engine)
• Elemental Hero Absolute Zero (quick Raigeki with attack points)

Semi-Limit

• Judgment Dragon (OTK potential)
• Fire King High Avatar Garunix (renewable Dark Hole with attack points)
• Super-Polymerization (steals and is Spell Speed 4)

As always, these are just the things that I'm currently aware of, but not the things that I personally dislike.

edited 21st Dec '13 12:24:26 PM by wanderlustwarrior

The sad, REAL American dichotomy

I'd suggest examining all the Forbidden cards first and discuss their viability and/or overpoweredness on the meta from there. You know, one step at a time.

"Evii is right though" -Saturn "I didn't know you were a bitch Evii." -Lior Val

Agreed. We can add cards to the list later, so we might as well try and lessen the amount on the list already.

So can we talk about moving Rescue Cat to one?

They can't for the life of them understand why nobody liked being ruled by a group of manic depressive demigods - 4chan

Well get to it.

I say we take it 3 cards at a time.

The first forbidden cards we will discuss are…

Chaos Emperor Dragon, Cyber Jar and Cyber-Stein.

I would start with Blaster, but Dragon Rulers just got hit.

edited 21st Dec '13 12:23:04 PM by PhilosopherStones

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Fair enough, Evii.

I think all of those can stay gone, for being incredibly powerful and easily attained. A duelist using them could easily draw them and say "I win", especially CED and Cyber-Stein.

But, considering... Yeah, we could at most test Cyber Jar at 1, and see how it actually gets used. I feel like I'm forgetting something about it though. and I do feel that it can lead into an OTK well in many decks.

edited 21st Dec '13 12:38:42 PM by wanderlustwarrior

The sad, REAL American dichotomy

Very well, in that case...

Chaos Emperor Dragon - This card is still insanely broken. I don't think it'll be like BLS, where it'd be surprisingly under-used and easily outmatched. Thanks to Melody of Awakening Dragon, it's now searchable, and that effect means massive burn damage. Assuming the Opponent survived, the game becomes a topdeck war. Not good at all for the game.

Cyber Jar - Like I said earlier, I'm up for testing this at 1. I have no idea if this was abused heavily before, but the mutual field wipe and resource gathering happens to both players, so it's roughly fair...ish? I don't think I can really tell what this card can do to a deck.

Cyber-Stein - This is... an instant OTK set-up right there. Use effect > BEUD > Megamorph. The only thing really holding this back is the fixed cost and the lack of Heavy, I suppose, but the risk's way too high for my liking.

Alright, here goes...

• Chaos Emperor Dragon - Envoy of the End: Searchable. Eclipse Wyvern and that new Melody of the Dragon are effective searchers for this card. Fits into one of the big Tier 2 decks (Chaos Dragons) perfectly. It's effect is insanely powerful and it hits with that nice 3k body. In addition, its easy as all hell to bring out and can be brought back as long as it wasn't Solemn'd. I believe that this card is unhealthy for the metagame and should stay Banned without further testing.
• Cyber Jar: Not searchable so a good start there. There is a great deal of anti-destruction around in the game, making this card less of a big deal. It should be noted that if it is attacked into while face-down, you have to already have anti-destruction on your card or Chalice/Dress since the FLIP effect triggers during the Damage Step. This card builds an insane amount of card advantage almost instantaneously. However, it is risky as your opponent has the potential to gain advantage as well. I still believe this card to be unhealthy for the metagame. HOWEVER, I think that testing of this card could prove at the very least interesting. Banned without further testing is my gut instinct but I also suggest a Limited testing if the thread is comfortable with it.
• Cyber-Stein: Searchable with a few half-decent cards such as Mystic Tomato, UFOroid, and Road Warrior. Gives instantaneous access to Blue-Eyes Ultimate Dragon, Cyber Twin Dragon, Cyber End Dragon, and Naturia Exterio for a pretty hefty cost. However, this card is incredibly unhealthy for the metagame due to the instantaneous firepower it is guaranteed to bring out and should therefore be Banned without testing.

"Evii is right though" -Saturn "I didn't know you were a bitch Evii." -Lior Val

Evii, could you edit into your first post some standards that we might want to use for cards? Statements like your bolded ones above, or "Recommended for __limited" or stuff like that?

The sad, REAL American dichotomy

Ok so the general opinion seems to be…

CED: Stay Banned

Cyber Jar: Stay Banned (although some are willing to test it out.)

Cyber-Stein: Stay Banned

Should we move onto the next three then? I'm only goin' down the list so it should be easy to follow.

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Edited in my first post for some basic reference.

As for moving on, we've gotten like three peoples opinions and its been like ten minutes. I'm not sure why there seems to be a rush.

Also, I was wondering what the power level of the banlist should be. Are we aiming for Tier 2 decks? Tier 3? Tier 1?

"Evii is right though" -Saturn "I didn't know you were a bitch Evii." -Lior Val

I don't know what the Tiers are, but I feel like we should be aiming for where as many intelligently built decks can at least keep up as possible, without flooding the game with a ton of broken staples.

edited 21st Dec '13 1:24:02 PM by wanderlustwarrior

The sad, REAL American dichotomy

So Tier 2 then?

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I still don't know what those actually mean.

edited 21st Dec '13 1:53:08 PM by wanderlustwarrior

The sad, REAL American dichotomy

Basically they are decks that might not be the best decks in the format, but can thrive in the meta with the right pilot.

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From what I've gathered...

Tier 0 - Tele DAD level, when it was literally "Play this one build of this one deck or go die n00b."
Tier 1 - Dragon Ruler level, where you were pretty much forced to play the one deck, or the only real counter available to it.
Tier 2 - ...Everything else not Tier 3? Tier 3 - I dunno... non-archetype decks/Ice Barriers?

Here's a thought: how many people are actually participating in this thread? If we establish how many people, we can figure out at what point enough opinions can count as a majority of views, and then once that's reached, we just move on. For example, if we have 10 people participating, and 5-6 make a suggestion, then we need not wait for 10.

Also, each of the recommendations should, unless specified otherwise, be considered a recommendation for anything less, when talking of removing a card from the banlist.

Finally, I think we can do 5 cards at a time. It's not that hard.

I'd prefer we gear things as close towards towards Tier 3 as possible, then. I don't think "pick an archetype and ram it against another" is interesting at all.

edited 21st Dec '13 3:05:22 PM by wanderlustwarrior

The sad, REAL American dichotomy

That's... not really how tiers work in YGO. Tiers aren't based on the archetypes themselves, it's based on how often they win. Archetypes probably come to mind because they're often the key to victory.

I myself would say that in their prime, TeleDAD and Dragon Rulers were on roughly the same level.

From this past banlist, I would probably say that...

Tier 1 - Dragon Rulers, no doubt. Maybe Evilswarms.

Tier 2 - Prophecies; with Judgment dead, they just couldn't keep up. Also Mermails, and maybe Bujins. Possibly Constellars?

Tier 3 - Geargias, Dragunities, Blackwings, Hieratics, Noble Knights, a lot of stuff could go under here.

Not tiered - This is pretty much where it's not considered "meta" at all. This is where Ice Barriers would be, along with stuff like Sharks, D-HER Os, Plants, Crystal Beasts, Toon. Basically, all the rejects go here.

"Why does everything have to loop back to YGO?" -Guy who ruined YGO

...Damnit. I had just set up a post for the 3 cards. I agree on the ban, let's just say.

So what's our next 3 cards then?

...It's weird having so many websites and no way to properly display now, lol.

CED:Should stay banned.

Cyber Jar::I willing to give a bump to 1, just to see how it works out.

Cyber-Stein: Not even will to test this card.

---

I dont have first hand knowledge of these cards. So i dont have much to say about them.

They can't for the life of them understand why nobody liked being ruled by a group of manic depressive demigods - 4chan

CED

• Banned:IIII
• Limit:
• Semi:
• Unlimit:

Cyber Jar

• Banned:
• Limit:IIII (If tested. Otherwise considered to be Banned.)
• Semi:
• Unlimit:

Cyber Stein

• Banned:IIII
• Limit:
• Semi:
• Unlimit:

So here's the Poll so far. We'll refer to each set of cards we discuss as a "Set" so this is "Set 1".

---

I think we can do 5 at a time as well.

So the next Set up for discussion will be….

Dark Magician of Chaos (Searchable nowadays.)

Disk Commander (Remember that CotH is at 3.)

Stratos (Heros already have E-Call to 3.)

Fiber Jar (Cyber Jar's distant cousin.)

Fishborg Blaster (Remember the Monarchs.)

edited 21st Dec '13 5:44:30 PM by PhilosopherStones

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