Not Tropeworthy: Firing One Handed

Deadlock Clock: 10th Feb 2014 11:59:00 PM
Total posts: [27]
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Maybe it's just me, but this trope is extremely chairsy. It's just "people using one hand to fire a firearm". Sorry, scratch that. It's not even "firearm". It's "pistol". As it is, calling this a trope is like saying "people using a one-handed sword in one hand when they could use two hands" is a trope.

I mean, I think this could be a valid trope if we added something to it, like maybe, "people using large firearms with one hand, showing that they're either idiot posers trying to look cool or extreme badasses". Or making it a subtrope of Awesome, but Impractical, as it's not the easiest or more accurate way to fire a gun, even a pistol (or maybe I'm just a wimp who can't comfortably handle the recoil of a handgun with just one wrist). Or something. Anything. but right now, it just doesn't seem like a trope.
2 SeptimusHeap5th Dec 2013 09:46:29 AM from Laniakea , Relationship Status: Mu
There are some advantages when holding a gun in both hands. For example, the recoil is carried by both arms.
3 Larkmarn5th Dec 2013 11:04:31 AM , Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
Firing large weapons one handed would be Improbable Use of a Weapon, I'd imagine.

As is, it's basically serves a similar purpose as Gangsta Style: people do it even if it's less practical because they see it in movies.

Examples like the trope's picture, however, don't seem notable because he's clearly firing one-handed because he needs to keep the other hand on the bike.

edited 5th Dec '13 11:04:40 AM by Larkmarn

It's notable because it's a shotgun. A normal human can't fire a shotgun one-handed and expect to keep a grip on it, let alone actually hit anything.
5 Larkmarn5th Dec 2013 11:16:29 AM , Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
Notable in terms of the trope. Demonstrating superstrength isn't mentioned anywhere in the description, and like I said, I feel like that falls under Improbable Use of a Weapon.

If those stay on the page, then some mention of the possible justification should go on the page.

edited 5th Dec '13 11:19:51 AM by Larkmarn

There's nothing wrong with it falling under Improbable Use of a Weapon, that just makes it a subtrope or possible subtrope.
7 SeptimusHeap5th Dec 2013 02:43:24 PM from Laniakea , Relationship Status: Mu there nothing to do but a note in the description (and maybe some cleaning of examples)?
Kinda, but first we should probably decide what the trope is for. I don't have a problem with keeping it broad, but if we do, we should come up with all the ways the trope is most likely going to be used and make those part of the description. And we should definitely change the description away from Just Handguns, otherwise we'd have to cut a lot of examples (and the trope pic) based on the fact that they're just simply not handguns.

edited 5th Dec '13 3:35:06 PM by Erivale

I think the reason this page was made is because, like Gangsta Style it represents a Hollywood tendency to depict characters who should know better using pistols in a way that is actually rather bad form and is discouraged by professional shooters and others that actually know what they are doing. The current prevailing school of thought is that you should always use both hands to control a pistol while shooting.

edited 5th Dec '13 4:10:41 PM by Catbert

In other words, commenting on the show and how they can't be bothered to do it right, not on a specific character? I guess that's tropeworthy, but the description is far too meandering to make that clear.

EDIT: Scratch that, I just took a look at the article. There's this one line, "The exception is if they are military or police officers, where they will use two hands. Unless they've gone rogue and/or are desperate." It's even saying that people who know what they're doing do it differently from the trope, and the way it's phrased, it means always. So maybe the original poster was trying to say something like "you can tell this guy's not a pro, he's shooting one handed", but given the poor quality of the description, I say we should just figure out what works best, not what the original creator meant.

edited 5th Dec '13 5:08:07 PM by Erivale

11 Madrugada5th Dec 2013 07:28:11 PM , Relationship Status: In season
Going to weigh in not so much on the trope, but on the practice in real life (as a shooter myself).

Yes, ideally, you use a two-handed grip on any but the tiny pocket pistols. This is for a number of reasons: it's stronger, it's more stable, its easier to handle the recoil, and it gives you better control.

But many people who shoot also train one-handed, especially people who are training for self-defense. The reason is that you won't necessarily have the time to assume a "proper" stance and two-handed grip in dire situations. Some, especially law-enforcement officers, (who may be or required to also shoot an acceptable qualifying score one-handed with their off-hand) will train not only one-handed but off-hand one-handed.

One-handed shooting can indicate any number of things about a character. Or it can indicate nothing at all about them. And there's no "always" about it.

edited 5th Dec '13 7:29:08 PM by Madrugada

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
Fair enough about that last point, but a trope should at least usually have more to it than, "this happens. the end".
13 Madrugada5th Dec 2013 07:54:38 PM , Relationship Status: In season
What I'm saying is that simply "firing a gun one-handed" isn't a trope. It's Chairs, unless there's something more to it, unless the work makes it clear that it's intended to say something more about the character.

And by the way, a cute, kitschy sign isn't really very good evidence of what "experts in the field" think.tongue

edited 5th Dec '13 7:56:11 PM by Madrugada

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
14 Madrugada5th Dec 2013 08:02:33 PM , Relationship Status: In season
There are a lot of inaccuracies in the examples as well. Shooting one-handed is not necessarily less accurate than using a two-handed grip. A .44 Magnum won't "rip your hand off" if you fire it one-handed. Revolvers can be fired one-handed without fanning the hammer.
...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
15 AnotherDuck5th Dec 2013 08:53:06 PM from Stockholm , Relationship Status: In season
No, the other one.
I think the second section about larger firearms specifically not meant for one-handed use is tropeworthy, but not the first.

Rifles, shotguns, automatics, those I can see as a trope, as a counterpart to One-Handed Zweihänder. Pistols, not really. Especially not older revolvers, since they're specifically designed to use with one hand.

Personally, though, aiming isn't really affected much if you use one hand, within shorter ranges. Rifles are also still possible, but slower. It really depends on the range and how well you need to aim, since when it comes to precision shooting, you want the gun as steady as you can manage. But that just goes for the actual shooting part, not anything that comes after it. Which is the real problem comes when you need to fire more than one shot, since handling the recoil is much more difficult, and with rifles you really need to figure out how to handle it before you shoot so you don't get smacked in the face. Not something you do in any kind of action. Or in any practical manner that isn't liable to hurt you.
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[up] & [up][up][up] That's what I'm trying to say. This needs to be more than just "people firing firearms (of any size) one handed" — it needs something more.
17 Madrugada6th Dec 2013 07:51:06 AM , Relationship Status: In season
Duck, I agree with you that one-handed use of long guns is a valid parallel trope to One-Handed Zweihänder, but I'd argue against adding automatic and semi-automatic handguns into that category. Yes, the bigger one have a lot of muzzle climb, and that's more obnoxious when firing them one handed, but as long as you don't try to fight it by locking your elbow, it's simply a matter of learning to ride with it and then bring your muzzle back down and on target.

edited 6th Dec '13 7:51:46 AM by Madrugada

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
18 AnotherDuck6th Dec 2013 11:41:30 AM from Stockholm , Relationship Status: In season
No, the other one.
Well, I can't say I have any experience with automatics, so I don't know how their recoil differ. I was counting fully automatic guns, though, not semi-automatic.
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Could we just... not have Death anymore?
How about two pages?

UsefulNotes.Firing One Handed for handguns
Main.Firing One Handed for guns intended for two-handed or placement being fired from one hand.

edited 6th Dec '13 1:31:11 PM by crazysamaritan

[up]I actually like that idea. Covers both bases, and we can turn the trope into the gun equivalent of One-Handed Zweihänder with all the connotations, etc.
21 LeGarcon6th Dec 2013 02:17:24 PM from Skadovsk , Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
I'm down for it.
Oh really when?
22 Madrugada6th Dec 2013 03:10:08 PM , Relationship Status: In season
We already have BFG for someone using a gun typically used with a mount or on a vehicle as a hand weapon — effectively the gun equivalent of One-Handed Zweihänder.

Is the distinction between "uses a weapon so big it's normally used in an emplacement or on a vehicle as a personal weapon" and "regularly uses a weapon normally used in an emplacement or on a vehicle as a personal weapon, one-handed" a clear enough distinction for the average editor, or will they become duplicates?

edited 6th Dec '13 3:13:49 PM by Madrugada

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
I personally think we should just stick to normally two handed guns (shotguns, assault rifles, even sniper rifles, whatever) being used in one hand. And besides, the BFS and One-Handed Zweihänder tropes go hand in hand, and are often used at the same time, but they're recognized by most editors as distinct tropes: One's for massive swords, showing the wielder is badass, one is about massive swords wielded in one hand, showing the wielder is extra badass. I see no reason why this should be any different, even if we do include BFGs.

Although, when I read the above, it almost seems like One-Handed Zweihänder has a touch of being The Same, but More for BFS.

edited 6th Dec '13 4:23:11 PM by Erivale

In uffish thought
This got off to a good start but has been quiet for a month. Clocking.

I'm good with making this an equivalent of One-Handed Zweihänder. I'm not sure that we need a Useful Notes page for this as long as we don't clog the description with info.
I would rename it to something more specific in the mould of One-Handed Zweihänder, to fit the change and to help be more distinct from BFG.
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Total posts: 27
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