Ukraine protests: Thousands march through capital
- over 100,000 by some counts
Ukrainian protesters besiege government building
Clashes amid huge Ukraine protest against U-turn on EU
Over 300,000 defy protest ban in Ukraine- "Fierce clashes erupt after protesters take to streets again, chanting "revolution" as anger against government grows."
What started as a protest against the decision not to sign an agreement with the EU seems to have escalated into a "Color Revolution" or "Arab Spring" style movement to force the government to resign. By some reports, the police are using violent tactics to suppress the street protests.
The Western half of the Ukraine has historically felt closer to Europe , and wants to move Ukrainian society in that direction. Eastern Ukraine feels culturally closer to Russia, and favors closer relations with that country. The current regime of President Viktor Yanukovich is part of that camp. The current confrontations can be seen as a clash between these two halves of Ukrainian society.
EDIT (2/24/2022)
This thread was originally opened in 2013 during the beginning of the revolt in Ukraine that eventually over-threw the dictatorship of the Yanukovyich regime and instituted democratic elections soon afterward. As of this writing, in the aftermath of the Russian invasion that began on 2/23, it is not clear whether or for how long Ukraine will continue to exist as an independent country.
Statements made nine years ago still seem relevant: "The Western half of the Ukraine has historically felt closer to Europe , and wants to move Ukrainian society in that direction. Eastern Ukraine feels culturally closer to Russia, and favors closer relations with that country... The current confrontations can be seen as a clash between these two halves of Ukrainian society." Some people have expressed the view that the confrontation between Russia and Ukraine, beginning in 2014, never really ended.
The invasion is also a result of certain grievances proclaimed by Vladimir Putin, the current President of Russia, and used by him as justification for armed attack and occupation. Western governments, and others around the world, have joined together in condemnation of this attack.
While we do not know what the ultimate outcome of these events will be, this thread will continue to be made available as a place to record news, ask questions and express opinions about the "Crisis in Ukraine."
This map will help track the latest developments.
Do not post anything about the Ukrainian military movement and strategy. This could actually result in casualties.
No discussion regarding nuclear war. As nuclear weapons are not being used by either side, nuclear war is off-topic.
When posting social media links, please (1) state the source [e.g. Reuters reporter? State-sponsored Facebook account? Civilian Twitter?] (2) clarify if it is fact or opinion and (3) summarize the information being presented.
Edited by Tabs on Mar 20th 2022 at 4:26:26 AM
Beware the Crazy Man.
Nah, it was laid up at Nikolaev at the time.
Russia could care less. Ukraine had tried giving the ship for free to them years ago and Moscow declined, instead offering to upgrade the ship for Kiev's uses. Obviously that can't happen now, so Ukraine is gonna sell it.
It's a fool's purchase though. That ship has basically been in drydock since the fall of the USSR.
Final Fantasy, Foreign Policy, and Bollywood. Helluva combo, that...
V
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
The only other country that would probably be in the market for that incomplete Slava is China.
Shameful Display
It gives Ukraine money, potential defense ties with another country, and allows them to finally get rid of this thing and focus on structuring it's navy for the real threat it faces, Russia, instead of delusions of being a Blue Water Force. Moscow might not like that, especially if the country they sell to is one with ties to Russia. Mind you, they won't throw a fit in public, let alone try to sink the ship, but I'm sure they are trying to force Ukraine to sell the thing to the breakers instead of another power.
Maybe the Indians would be interested? I mean they have been using a lot of old Soviet hardware, and last I checked were in the middle of a navel build up. But China is indeed more probably, they probably want Liaoning to have a friend from home
Edit: And who turns down a free cruiser?
edited 22nd Sep '15 11:27:09 AM by JackOLantern1337
I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
A procrastination in of itself
It's not free if you have to put an ton of money and effort into getting it working after paying to get it all the way to you form Ukraine.
As for India, it's trying to build a domestic military industry, so it has no interest in such things.
"And the Bunny nails it!" ~ Gabrael "If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we." ~ Cyran
Beware the Crazy Man.
Can't make much money on a nearly obsolete ship, especially when you can probably get the same tech level for cheaper since the Slava was never completed. Which, again, is why Russia could care less who Ukraine sells it to. And because there is a lack of money to be made from the sale, it won't fetch enough to buy anything that will bat Moscow's eye. At best, Kiev can hope for a hand me down. Maybe the British can give them one of the Type 42s or something.
And shipbuilding is one of the few military industrial areas where India already builds good enough warships that it can export them to other nations. The only reason they bought that Russian carrier was so they'd have a stopgap when they retired the ex-Hermes. Didn't work out quite as they hoped though.
Final Fantasy, Foreign Policy, and Bollywood. Helluva combo, that...
Who Am I?
Can I have it?? OMG! Put it on Ebay!
"We learn from history that we do not learn from history."
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
TV Tropes should adopt it.
Oh really when?
Beware the Crazy Man.
Would it launch intercontinental ballistic tropes? Cuz I'd be on board with that.
Final Fantasy, Foreign Policy, and Bollywood. Helluva combo, that...
Who Am I?
I see what you did there!
"We learn from history that we do not learn from history."
HGW XX/7
On point of fact: it was Russia who wanted the Ukraiyna for free. Ukraine wanted paid.
edited 23rd Sep '15 5:29:18 AM by Achaemenid
Schild und Schwert der Partei
Beware the Crazy Man.
Meh. Tis what I get for going on memory.
Still, point remains. Moscow won't care (as it is a white elephant and they have other ships of this type) and Ukraine will be damn lucky to make any money on it.
Final Fantasy, Foreign Policy, and Bollywood. Helluva combo, that...
Shameful Display
UN ordered to leave Luhansk by rebel government Link fixed. I will note that Dontesk did not give a similar order.
edited 25th Sep '15 6:22:42 AM by JackOLantern1337
I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
Think you messed up the link there, buddy.
Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele
DNR did it too. Sadly, to maintain at least a semblance of order people without proper paperwork must go. Meanwhile, Red Cross fixed what little faults Novorossian authorirties found and were allowed to stay.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
There is no food here, shoo, shoo!
edited 25th Sep '15 1:00:43 PM by Pz_VI
The Great Htuub of Moscovia
Order in Luganda? Now that's something
Privet
Shameful Display
Deadly new Russian rocket system sighted in Ukraine.
It came off the surplus market like the rest of their kit.
"Yup. That tasted purple."
A procrastination in of itself
Aren't all rockets deadly if they're aimed at you?
edited 2nd Oct '15 8:40:10 AM by Silasw
"And the Bunny nails it!" ~ Gabrael "If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we." ~ Cyran
The law in the night
Team Rocket is particularly bad at being deadly though.
edited 2nd Oct '15 8:58:25 AM by AngelusNox
Inter arma enim silent leges
Beware the Crazy Man.
One can die from sheer cheese.
The law in the night
The report about the MH17 is finished, and no it doesn't point fingers at any side.
Who Am I?
Cant imagine very many people will be satisfied with that.
"We learn from history that we do not learn from history."
Clearly western propaganda lies. Everyone knows the plane was shot down by the Ukrainian air force.
"Yup. That tasted purple."
Beware the Crazy Man.
Leave it be guys. That shit has been done to death.
Final Fantasy, Foreign Policy, and Bollywood. Helluva combo, that...
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]")
I had assumed Russia had captured the ship when they took Crimea, along with nearly all of Ukraine's other Military units. In any case who could buy the ship, besides the scrap yards of course. And I assume Russia will not be happy about the sale and will try to block it though diplomatic back channels.
I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.