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Wick cleanup: Absurdly Youthful Mother get usage counts

So you're saying Absurdly Tall Mother would be a valid supertrope? Then, yes, I am very confused.

 27 Septimus Heap, Tue, 3rd Dec '13 12:50:52 PM from Muggio Valley, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Puʻu ʻŌʻō
Check the post edit, please.

"As for why Absurdly Tall Mother isn't a trope, it's because mothers in media tend to be average height."

But mothers in media tend to be oddly young?

I don't think that's true overall, and even if it were, Absurdly Youthful Mother isn't about the trend of mothers appearing oddly young— again, that "presumably pregnant at 15" might have been the original definition, and that would be a valid trope. It's about about mothers appearing too young for any number of reasons, many of which are supernatural and most of which don't form a single trend.

Let's go back to those other/combination examples — those are the only examples that would be on the supertrope page, right? Mothers in media don't tend to adopt artificially old AI. Mothers in media don't tend to use blood in rituals. Those examples are not part of a wider trend.

[[quoteblock]]The only reason why I agree with you on Absurdly Tall Mother is that there already is Teens Are Short[[quoteblock]]

And once we split this page, there'll already be "Birthed As A Teen" and Immortal Mother Mortal Child and all the concepts here that are actual tropes.

edited 3rd Dec '13 1:02:20 PM by AmyGdala

 29 shimaspawn, Tue, 3rd Dec '13 1:01:45 PM from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
No, it's not about a trend in media where mothers don't look old enough to have born their children. It doesn't need to be universal in media to be a trope.

In general, many supertropes have few if any examples on their pages. The lack of examples that don't fit better into a subtrope is not a reason it should not be a supertrope, but instead an affirmation that it's a supertrope. Look at the page for Tomboy.

edited 3rd Dec '13 1:03:55 PM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

-Philip K. Dick
Fine. Then we're back to Absurdly Tall Mother. It's not universal, but it's very common (Teens Are Short). So why shouldn't I make a supertrope for all those tall mothers that aren't covered by Teens Are Short?

 31 shimaspawn, Tue, 3rd Dec '13 1:04:48 PM from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
Because the trope there isn't that mothers are tall, but that teens are short. You're taking a concept that isn't actually a thing in media at all and are trying to make it a trope.

It's not at all common in media for mothers to be tall. That's the reason it can't be a trope. Mothers are generally average height for women.

edited 3rd Dec '13 1:06:22 PM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

-Philip K. Dick
Then I could apply the same argument to my hypothetical Absurdly Short Teen supertrope.

Teens Are Short is a trope, but I would note that some examples of short teens aren't covered by that. Like Honey, I Shrunk the Kids. Or parnts who adopt a teenage anthropomorphic shoe. I'd insist that these examples, though they don't follow the same trope as anything in Teens Are Short, are indeed examples of "teen is who abnormally short compared with his parents, " so I'd claim that there was a missing supertrope. I would be wrong.

 33 Septimus Heap, Tue, 3rd Dec '13 1:24:01 PM from Muggio Valley, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Puʻu ʻŌʻō
<Sigh> This argument aside, we'll split the page, it seems. Who is going to handle that?

I can do it, we just need to figure out if we want to split everything into its own page, merge a couple, and all that.

As Catbert said here, there's a maximum of nine possible subtropes. 7, 8, and 9 (faked parentage, unclear examples, and Writers Cannot Do Math) don't have enough examples to split off, so those can stay on the supertrope. Six subtropes still feels like a lot, though. 6 (parents that were young but still considered adults when the child was born) could also conceivably stay on the page.

That leaves us with:

How's that look for a start?
 35 shimaspawn, Tue, 3rd Dec '13 3:18:34 PM from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
I think those are a good start, and it helps that some of those subtropes already have their own pages.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

-Philip K. Dick
For the record, I'm with Amy.

Disambiguation / Index, not supertrope.
Still new. Still learning. Asking questions and making mistakes.
Bump. Are we agreed that "Pregnancy at a young age is clearly implied or stated" is covered by Teen Pregnancy? Likewise, any name ideas for "The parent looks younger, or the child looks older"?
 38 shimaspawn, Thu, 5th Dec '13 12:44:59 PM from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
I think we're agreed on Teen Pregnancy. Not sure on a name for the second one.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

-Philip K. Dick
I still can't think of a name for "The parent looks younger, or the child looks older, " not even really boring descriptive ones. Parent/Child Age Confusion is the best I can come up with, and it still feels too broad.
 40 shimaspawn, Fri, 6th Dec '13 6:13:42 PM from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
Mum Looks Like Your Sis is about as good as I can come up with and it's clunky, and not quite right.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

-Philip K. Dick
 44 Willbyr, Tue, 10th Dec '13 8:31:36 PM from North Little Rock, AR Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Anime-ted
[up][up] Those are good. I made a minor grammar tweak to Sandbox.Mum Looks Like Your Sis.
Does it apply when it's simply that our medias don't like to showcase women who look past 40 ? Like for exemple in Gossip Girl, when Kelly Rutherfold would need to have given birth at 19 in order to be the mother of Black L Ively ? Mind you, it's not coherent with her backstory.

And i would say that the description focus a bit too much on justifying the trope and downplaying it. At the end it delivers dubious informations. The average age for first periods worldwide is 13 or 14, according to wikipedia. 12, 5 in the US (Not 11 or 12 worldwide) . Having your period at five is extremely extremely uncommon and probably related with health issues. And the mother is unlikely to survive giving birth at this age.

The average age to conceive a child is 25 for american women, and the number is probably pushed down by teen pregnancies. Not to mention that in certains social classes where women focus on studies/career/ acquiring social status first (such as the one depicted in Gossip Girl, since it was my exemple) the average age would likely be higher. It's 28 to 30 pretty much everywhere in Europe, as in Japan and Korea.
 
 46 peccantis, Fri, 13th Dec '13 2:17:07 PM Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
the flies will find you
Does it apply when it's simply that our medias don't like to showcase women who look past 40 ? (...)

Of course it does. Media differs from reality when it comes to apparent age difference between most mothers and their children. That's a trope no matter what the reason is.

Then again, if it's ubiquitous (as it seems to be, in visual media) we don't want to list straight examples anyway.

edited 13th Dec '13 2:22:08 PM by peccantis

before the darkness arrives
 47 Septimus Heap, Wed, 8th Jan '14 12:51:37 AM from Muggio Valley, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Puʻu ʻŌʻō
The sandboxes in @42 seem fine for me. Mum Looks Like Your Sis looks actually like dialogue to me.

We just need to sort the examples, then. I've been meaning to get to it, but it's been a busy couple of weeks.
 49 Willbyr, Tue, 11th Feb '14 5:31:21 AM from North Little Rock, AR Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
With Mod Hat On
Clock is set.
 50 Larkmarn, Tue, 11th Feb '14 6:08:04 AM Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
How about Mom Looks Like A Sister?

Also: I love the fact this is clocked for Valentines day. That tickles me

edited 11th Feb '14 6:08:31 AM by Larkmarn

Alternative Titles: Mum Looks Like Your Sis
25th Feb '14 11:45:50 AM
Vote up names you like, vote down names you don't. Whether or not the name will actually be changed is determined with a different kind of Crowner (the Single Proposition crowner). This one just collects and ranks alternative names.
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