This. Cannot. Continue.
The second and third characters in our starting sequence will be Chiyuri Kitashirakawa and Reimu Hakurei. But first - well, at this moment when the old thread has died and a new thread is born, who better to start the conversation than...
Stages:
A Maiden's Remains in the Other World
Loathing this unclean world. Seeking rebirth in the Pure Land. Please offer cherry blossoms to my deceased body if someone is willing to mourn my death.
BGM: Ultimate Truth
Enjoyment, Even in Death ~ Night Cherry Blossoms in the Netherworld
What are these divine spirits that are scattered and swept away by the cherry blossoms? They only activate moments before death.
BGM:"Night Sakura of Dead Spirits"
Themes: "Bloom Nobly, the Ink-Black Cherry Blossom ~ Border of Life", "Border of Life", Ghost Lead"
Spellcard Motif: Death and Loss, Souls and Phantoms, Butterflies, Cherry Blossoms
Notable Spellcards: (PCB, IaMP, IN, SWR StB, 'soku, TD)
Losing Hometown "Lost Soul's Village ~ Suicide," Deadly Dance "Law of Mortality ~ Dead Butterfly," Cherry Blossom Sign "The Perfect Ink-black Cherry Blossom ~ Bloom," Cherry Blossom Sign "Saigyou Cherry Blossom Blizzard," "Resurrection Butterfly," Death Sign "Ghastly Dream," Ghost Sign "Ageless Dream," Cherry Blossom "Feast of Lingering Attachment," "Saigyouji Flawless Nirvana," Banquet "All Things Reunite in Death"
Write-up:
The ghost princess of the Netherworld, Yuyuko Saigyouji has reigned over Hakugyokurou for the past thousand years. Her power over departed spirits makes her ideal for this position, while her other ability, to invoke death in others, is what led her to the job in the first place.
Yuyuko's mortal existence was ended prematurely when she committed suicide, terrified by her own power. After her death, her body was used as to seal a youkai cherry tree, the Saigyou Ayakashi, with the side effect of preventing Yuyuko's soul from moving on via reincarnation. All of this she eventually forgot, until one day Yuyuko whimsically decided that it would be nice if one particular tree on her property would fully bloom, thereby kicking off Perfect Cherry Blossom.
This gives you a taste of Yuyuko's personality. She's depicted as a charming yet somewhat ditzy girl who can overlook the obvious, yet on other occasions she's displayed surprising cunning. Not to mention a playful side that comes out during interactions with her gardener/bodyguard/fencing instructor/anything else Yuyuko needs done, Youmu Konpaku. The fandom makes use of any or all of these traits, as well as amplifying certain remarks concerning a bird youkai to portray Yuyuko as a glutton, and she remains one of the most popular characters in the cast.
Relations
- Youmu Konpaku (do-everything half-living companion)
- Youki Konpaku (antecedent to the antecedent)
- Yukari Yakumo (friend and sometime co-conspirator)
- Mystia Lorelei (fanon's literal Chew Toy)
- The Saigyou Ayakashi (prisoner/jailer)
Interpretations:
The Odd Ghost Princess of the Netherworld
by Otherarrow
Two Sides of the Coin
by shiroimahotsukai
Spellcard Storytelling, IaMP
by Horselesshorseman
They Met Under the Cherry Blossoms, the Meeting That Would Change Their Lives
by ninryu
See also the first two Compendiums.
edited 19th Jul '15 6:04:25 PM by Tacitus
Current earworm: "The White Witch"
That was faster than I expected. And we're really going with 'New New'? But, anyway, Yuyuko:
I see her as someone operating on an entirely different wavelength than humans or even most youkai. Her strange knowledge of things that seem like they should be beyond her is not the product of a hidden intelligence, but simply seeing the world in a very different way. Conversely, she misses things others would find obvious
For her relationship with Youmu, I imagine Yuyuko is mostly fairly distant. The two don't have enough in common to have much of a personal relationship
On the other hand, she may well be the only person capable of truly understanding Yukari, and vice-versa. They may not spend much together, but they understand each other well enough that they don't need to
While Yukari generally only does anything if it's in the service of Gensoukyou's good, Yuyuko is more whimsical. Some of this is probably because the netherworld doesn't have much going on, but some of it is probably Yuyuko's basic nature
Also, she really does just plain like food
The Odd Ghost Princess of the Netherworld
Ah yes. Yuyuko Saigyouji. Ghost princess of the Netherworld. I have a lot to say it seems, so let's get started.
Born the daughter of a fancy poet, Yuyuko originally had the unique ability of manipulating the souls of the departed. Eventually, her powers started to evolve and she gained the ability to manipulate souls period, being able to pull them right out of the bodies of the living (causing instant death). So, in a sense, her ability is to manipulate death. However "manipulate death" is misleading, as she cannot manipulate the various forms and causes of death, nor can she undo death and bring someone back to life (Indeed, whether it be fate or just a side effect of her powers, Yuyuko is seemingly incapable of creating life in any form).
So I'd say her ability is manipulating souls, and most folks just associate it with its death applications. A little more on that in a bit.
Anyway, after the suicide of her father and several others under the Saigyou Ayakashi, the tree came to life and became a man eating youkai tree. Never fun. Around the same time, Yuyuko's powers were going into full swing, and she became terrified of them and killed herself. Someone got the idea to use the now dead Yuyuko to seal the Saigyou Ayakashi, and both fell into eternal slumber.
However, due to the nature of Yuyuko's death, she was cut off from the cycle of reincarnation and now lives as a ghost princess. Noticing both her situation and her ability to manipulate souls, the Yama chose her to manage the Netherworld, and she has been doing that ever since. I find it interesting that the aspect of her powers that got her a rather important yet comfy position in the celestial bureaucracy was not the more famous "invite people to death" but rather the ability to manipulate souls. I can see how that would be useful in managing the land of the dead.
Anyway, Yuyuko herself is one of the weird sort. She is very cheerful and friendly, but at the same time, some of her words and actions come off as more odd than anything, and it's hard to get a straight answer out of her. I can only guess that this is the result of her naturally quirky and whimsical personality colliding with her status as a 1000+ year old ghost. Interestingly enough, I always picture Yuyuko as carrying the air and persona of a elegant princess, even while being silly. The contrast seems to fit her.
I guess this is the point where I note as an example of her silly, according to her Lord of Vermillion Re:2 cameo, when she first became ghost princess of the Netherworld she started counting the cherry blossom flowering she witnessed but got bored and gave up before she got to ten. Somewhere down the line, she came to regret this and now proclaims that the current cherry blossoming is some random number, as if to make up for the ones she didn't count. (Much to Youmu's annoyance and confusion)
Despite her silliness, Yuyuko is also very clever, able to figure out the root cause of incidents she gets herself involved into very quickly and able to manipulate folks and situations for her benefit if she feels like it (such as the Netherworld Immigration Project, where to combat the overcrowding in the Netherworld, she let spirits cross over into the human world, which led to the Yama enlarging the Netherworld to put an end to that.) She is also capable of using her silliness for practical uses, such as causing foes to lower their guard or to ward off pesky Ayas.
Yuyuko's primary companion is her gardener/swordsmanship instructor Youmu Konpaku. Youmu tries to hold herself as a straight laced, serious sort. Youmu is naive and gullible. Youmu is somehow afraid of ghosts. It's almost as if the gods created someone specifically for Yuyuko to mess with.
She is also friends with Yukari Yakumo. How they met is unknown, but they seem fairly close. I bet they make a game out of unraveling each others' convoluted schemes. Like Youmu, Yukari is the serious to Yuyuko's silly (in comparison of course), but unlike Youmu, Yukari actually has a sense of humor and her whimsy fits with Yuyuko's quirky rather well.
...Holy shit I wrote a write up without trying.
edited 31st Oct '13 6:31:41 PM by Otherarrow
Don't PM me. We don't like being PMed.
Baring hearts for years
Ah, Yuyuko... I'm not a huge fan of hers... I feel her treatment of Youmu is... well, rude, basically... but I also understand she has no real responsibility towards Youmu (And Youmu is like an annoying kid who keeps asking 'why?' as a response to everything you say, so I can see where the lack of respect would come from.), so I don't hold it -too- much against her. I still get kinda 'bad boss' vibes, though.
In general, I don't feel she's... 'responsible'? No, that's not it... I mean, the Yama trusts her with the job, after all. But I mean, what's it say when the first thing to enter her mind when she reads
is "Oh! I just got a great idea! Make her live again!" 'Irresponsible' or 'troll' or something, you know? Pissing on someone's final wishes is just kinda a jerk move, you know?
This bit from her profile makes me ponder. Just why was Yuyuko the one appointed to be princess of the Netherworld. There are plenty of other such spirits bound to the tree eternally as well. My guess is something like Yuyuko used her power to manipulate death to get all the other dead spirits to vote her way or something like that. I wonder if they resent her.
Her relationship with Yukari begs all sorts of questions. How did they meet? When? Its implied Yukari doesn't know the whole story , so they presumably met after Yuyuko's death. Given Yukari's joy of screwing around, she probably just bumped into Yuyuko while ducking into the Netherworld and the two of them hit it off. I've seen some doujin where the reason Yukari sleeps all winter is because Yuyuko drained her vitality, or because of some symbolism between the tree and spring being the end of winter or something.
Yuyuko is an interesting contrast to Tenshi... Both are spoiled silly, but while Tenshi grows bored with this, Yuyuko makes use of it to remain entertained. For Yuyuko, existence is a party, and she revels in it. For Tenshi, existence is a party, but parties are so old hat. Yuyuko invites guests, Tenshi lures them.
So, here's a thought I've had (and mentioned elsewhere, I think) about Yuyuko: The Yuyuko Saigyouji we know and love is actually a composite of Mortal!Yuyuko and the Saigyou Ayakashi, or even just outright the Saigyou Ayakashi. Her hair color in spirit form is paler than when she was alive... it was probably bog-standard black when she was alive, but now sports the same sort of pink cherry blossoms are known for.
Some other points that could support this:
- The final spellcard she uses (%resurrection) is likely the tree itself attacking... yet Yuyuko's silhouette remains.
- Youmu's official title is 'Gardener'. 'Gardeners' tend to the needs of plants. Youmu tends to Yuyuko's needs. so clearly, Yuyuko is a plant. (I'm aware of the logical fallacy. This isn't a proof. It's just an amusing point.)
- A composite being would have a very good excuse for not remembering its own suicide/sealing. Memories likely get muddled when you ram two souls together. Alternatively, the Saigyou Ayakashi might have only achieves proper awareness after her death, so wouldn't remember the corpse that was there... and wouldn't remember it as its own corpse in any case, because obviously it didn't 'die'.
- Even more than a deceased human spirit, a youkai tree would have a very different perspective, which goes a long ways towards explaining Yuyuko's eccentricities. For instance, loving food because It couldn't taste for the longest time.
- Everyone knows all youkai have a female humanoid form, so where's the Saigyou Ayakashi's, huh? Exactly.
- She consistently has some phantoms near her. It could be the actual Yuyuko Saigyouji of several thousand years ago is one of those, unable to leave Yuyuko's side because of the seal. If I had to guess which the other one (she usually has ~2, IIRC) was, it'd be the silly poet that died under the tree in the first place, Mr. Saigyouji (Though it does say he ascended into godhood, I'm not sure if that prevents his soul from still being a thing, or if a new 'god' is made with his name/identity/etc). And/or they're just the other people whose bodies are still buried under the tree.
- Both Yuyuko and The Saigyou Ayakashi have the power to invite others to death. They may have become conflated in the minds of others, resulting in their fusion of sorts.
- Despite being a bit of a handful for the Yama, Yuyuko keeps her job. Perhaps not because she's a ghost who won't pass on, but because she's a tree that can't -move-. She's got the job for life, and she's a living tree trapped in a deathless/lifeless world. She's in it for the long haul.
So that's my crazy theory RE: Yuyuko. Its only directly contradicted a few times in canon (Like, you know, profile saying it's the former mistress of the Saigyouji clan), so it's almost certainly not the case, but it's got some support, too.
edited 31st Oct '13 7:16:22 AM by Antimatter625
I write some fanfiction. Satori's Tale is done... but I'm not.
I think Yuyuko was cut from the cycle of reincarnation not because she died under the tree, but because she was used to seal it. The other dead guys probably weren't cut from the cycle of reincarnation and moved on.
I do think the "The Yuyuko we see is the tree/is a Yuyuko/tree hybrid" is an interesting theory, but I don't really see it. I do think the two are inadvertently connected though, and I do like the idea that Yuyuko being tied to the tree is what gave her the cherry blossom pink hair. But yeah, even if Yuyuko was a Yuyuko/tree hybrid, I don't think it would matter, since Yuyuko would probably just control the hybrid mind anyway. The other person involved is a tree. We don't even know if it's sentient.
As for memories, the implication I got is that memories only last so long anyway, and I wouldn't be surprised if Yuyuko suppressed the memory of her suicide and just plain didn't know about her being used in the sealing (since the impression I got is that she didn't intentionally die to seal the tree. Whoever did just saw a opportunity with Yuyuko's death.)
Also, while both invite folks to death, they seem to do so rather differently. Yuyuko's death invitation is basically her using her soul manipulating powers to pull a soul out of the body, while the tree lures folks to it and drinks their blood (I think).
edited 31st Oct '13 7:33:02 AM by Otherarrow
Don't PM me. We don't like being PMed.
White Mage with a Twist
Two Sides of the Coin
Yuyuko strikes me as being almost like two different people. there's the silly, whimsical princess prone to (literal) flights of fancy and then there's the other side of her, the govener of the Netherworld, with a razor-sharp intellect and insight and the ability to act on it.
As for why this is I chalk it up to her childhood, if she were the daughter of a poet, she grew up in his company, admiring cherry blossoms and the beauty of life by day and frolicking in the fields with sprits by night. A fairly sheltered existance.
Then came death, frist it settled like a black shroud upon her father's shoulders as he sat beneath the great cherry blossom tree, the Saigyou Ayakashi. it began to spread its influence slowly drawing more and more people in as she watched. Knowing deep inside that she was in essence the same, people would be drawn to her and they would die.
Perhaps it happened by accident, some poor unfortunate soul was her first victim, there was no other word. and with the acceptance of her nature as she saw it came down the crashing force of the reality of the world. In a single moment of utter dispair she took her own life, leaving the world of the living for a place where she could do no harm.
The innocent nature and playful temperment she displays are the remnants of that child who grew up happy. A thousand years, however, is a very time for that small part of her that had awoken in that blinding moment of reality to develop, to become the cunning, insightful and manipulative woman who keeps the spirits of the dead in order.
Mostly these two co-exist, both sides enjoying the peaceful and boring days that comprise most of life in the Netherworld. Incidents come as they must however and the whimsy and wonder know they have to take a back seat to getting back to normal.
Well...that wasn't meant to be that long.
The eyes are the windows that let us gaze upon the soul.
One Winged Egret
Indeed, her circumstances are special, if not unique. She wasn't even killed by the tree.
It's a fairly common myth/urban legend to say that "the tree's blossoms are pink because its absorbing the blood of the corpse buried underneath it." So sakura trees drinking blood is actually fairly standard. Never thought of the connection to her hair though, that's clever.
People often ignore this side of her. Even when she's portrayed as Playing Dumb, people tend to forget that she's actually a governor. And by all accounts good at her job. She even lectures Youmu about the importance of duty and all that. In that sense I think people get their relationship backwards. Youmu thinks of herself as all serious and whatnot, but in the end is actually pretty irresponsible. By contrast Yuyuko takes nothing seriously but is extremely dutiful. If I had to describe this relationship I'd call it unbalanced. Yuyuko is the competent, dutiful and fun one, while Youmu just kinda sucks. You suck Youmu!
Yuyuko is good friends with Yukari. This puts her in the esteemed ranks of Reimu/Marisa, Remilia/Patchouli, Rin/Utsuho and Kosuzu/Akyuu. In that she has friends. There's not much to say here other than the fact that both Yukari and Yuyuko are on the same wavelength at least some of the time, and of the two Yuyuko seems to be more self-aware. In that sense, rather than simply being someone like Yukari, she has the ability to "tune in" to that unusual way of thinking. Being able to control herself like that is also brought up in SWR where she actively changes the weather by changing her temperament.
Yuyuko is also dead. This is important.
edited 31st Oct '13 8:11:37 AM by Clarste
One Winged Egret
It's also Halloween.
Main Character
Yuyuko simply does not care if people die horribly or not, due to the fact the Netherworld and Heaven are things.
edited 31st Oct '13 8:04:05 AM by Grounder
That makes sense.
And yeah, while Yuyuko acts quirky and silly, she is indeed very clever and from all appearances (as we don't see her doing any actual governing, since that would be probably be boring to watch), she is competent at her job, and combines her wit and abilities to keep everything working properly.
And then she makes everyone dance because she got bored.
And yeah, Youmu and Yuyuko's relationship is pretty unbalanced. Youmu tries to be the serious one, but is rather immature, irresponsible, naive and more than a little dumb. Yuyuko is pretty much the primary mover in their relation, she screws with Youmu, Youmu reacts in a way that encourages more screwing around with. Youmu probably thinks they have a more even "serious guy and silly guy" routine, but, again, Youmu is dumb. With that said, I do think that Yuyuko does try to slip in some Trickster Mentor moments, but Youmu is too thick to get it (see, her PoFV ending). But enough about Youmu.
I do like the idea that instead of just "Yuyuko is someone like Yukari", Yuyuko instead can tune in to Yukari's way of thinking, while also still having her own different perspective on things. I wouldn't be surprised if she can see grievous holes in Yukari's logic that Yukari misses due to her human perspective versus Yukari's youkai one (and vice versa), and due to them being on the same wavelength, they thus complement each other well. If that makes sense.
The thing with having enough control of her emotions and temperament to change the weather in SWR is pretty cool. I didn't know that.
edited 31st Oct '13 8:07:17 AM by Otherarrow
Don't PM me. We don't like being PMed.
It's time... to STOP!
Oh, we're already here. I was hoping to have time to reflect upon the previous thread, but alas I did not have that time. 'Twas some good times, but much has changed, in both the Land of Illusions and in myself. I actually like Sanae now, and I... I also... well, that's a pretty major change. Time's too short to be sentimental, there's a ghost to talk about.
Will we still be doing the locations this time around? Feels like a good time as any to talk about Gensokyo as a location now that it has had some major events and a bit more focus on the least known region, the Human Village.
Anyway, Yuyuko. What a remarkably appropriate topic of discussion for today. Very spooky. I could try and overview her, but instead of that, I'm going to try something different.
Spellcard Storytelling
Losing Hometown "Village of Self-Loss": Ah, starting out with a good one. A fairly standard dodging spell. Marisa notes that it's purpose is to hold back the ghosts who are trying to flee from the Netherworld. Levels are "Wandering Soul", "Past Sin", "Trackless Path", and "Suicide." The "Sucide" level leads me to believe that this spellcard refers to Yuyuko. One must always reflect upon the darkness of Yuyuko's decision when discussing her as a character. Taking her own life to potentially save the lives of many. In life, her greatest dream was simply to have a peaceful death. Does ever regret her decision in secret? Does she wish she could of remained in her hometown forever, without her power ever awakening? Perhaps she simply has no use for such dusty memories. Of course, there's a great untold story in how she managed to become the self-proclaimed princess of the Netherworld, but for now we have to take Yuyuko as she is.
Deadly Dance "Law of Mortality": "All living things must die eventually." A morbid outlook, but one that seems to fit well with Yuyuko. Levels are "Bewilderment", "Dead Butterfly", "Poisonous Moth", and "Demon World." To keep discussing this one is sure to end with Lunarians, so I'll move on.
Flowery Soul: This one really just seems to be a way for Yuyuko to flaunt all her major motifs at once. Levels are "Ghost Butterfly", "Swallowtail Butterfly, "Deep-Rooted Butterfly", and "Butterfly Delusion."
Subtle Melody "Repository of Hirokawa": Refers to the location where the poet Saigyou died. I don't have much to say about this one, either. Marisa notes that a butterfly larva is a caterpillar. Thank you Marisa, your ability to gather information rivals my own. Levels are "False Soul", "Ghost", "Phantom Spirit", and "Divine Spirit."
Cherry Blossom Sign "Perfect Ink-Black Cherry Blossom": Levels are "Seal", "Self Loss", "Spring Sleep", and "Bloom". I suppose this is the point of the battle where she tries, and fails, to break the seal on the Saigyou Ayakashi. Yuyuko can never reincarnate, so long as the tree is sealed. While I suppose this has it's benefits, being a ghost without suffering and all, but doesn't it also have its faults? If you think about, Eiki really didn't have much a choice but to give her a job. She's outside the cycle of reincarnation, but she's unenlightened. What do you do with someone like that? What is their role in the world?
Resurrection Butterfly: Levels are "-10% Reflowering", "-30% Reflowering", "-50% Reflowering", and "-80% Reflowering." The stronger the spell gets the less the tree revives and more of Spring is returned to the living world. I still struggle with Yuyuko's failure being fate, but I suppose at the very least it is canon, and that's a fate of sorts. She can only manipulate death... Marisa notes that it seems to raise the dead.
IAMP soon, Yuyuko has too many spells. There's gotta' be a spellcard limit that's she's breaking illegally.
edited 31st Oct '13 12:35:48 PM by Horselesshorseman
I have no horse, and I must ride. I accomplish unlockments.
It's been vaguely implied that Yukari had something to do with Yuyuko's sealing. Maybe.
Also, on Yuyuko being a glutton... she does use food metaphors a lot.
Yukari: "You're not seriously asking me that, are you, Yuyuko?"
Yuyuko: "No. Only a little."
Yukari: "Oh my, you're quite serious, aren't you? Do you remember sixty years ago?"
Yuyuko: "I can't remember what I had for breakfast yesterday."
Yuyuko: "Really? And what are those? Cherry blossoms, cherry blossom rice cakes, and oak leaf rice cakes?"
(later)
Yuyuko: "Ta-da, cherry blossom rice cakes! They were placed in a cupboard at home, so I snuck some out with me."
It has little-to-no basis in canon, but I'm a fan of Yuyuko's depiction in the Maiden's Illusionary Funeral doujins. Yuyuko had a completely different personality when she was alive... because she lost all her memories from the trauma of Yukari ripping her soul out of the Saigyou Ayakashi. And while they became friends again afterwards, the original Yuyuko is effectively dead.
edited 31st Oct '13 3:53:41 PM by Prime32
One Winged Egret
It's fairly common in fanon to make Yukari part of her backstory, but as far as I know it has no basis in canon whatsoever. I tend to like stories like that though, because they're more stories and less random facts about a character's history. All these ancient beings were already around back then, so why wouldn't they simply know each other?
edited 31st Oct '13 10:27:43 AM by Clarste
I think it started from Yukari having spells like "Double Black Death Butterfly" and "Border of Life and Death". Yukari knew Yuyuko while she was alive + Yukari knows the true nature of the seal + Yukari uses death/butterfly/sealing powers = ?
Anyway, random music
And more visual stuff
I am unable to unhear the first six notes of Border of Life as "Sakura sakura".
edited 31st Oct '13 4:54:34 PM by Prime32
Rainy Echoes
All right! It's Halloween, and the character in the spotlight is the Queen of the Netherworld herself. How appropriate. So, let me get started on a character who is not a recent newcomer, but a character who've been around for a good while, long before I knew of her existence...
Yuyuko Saigyouji:
The Ghost Princess of the Netherworld. Very whimsical.
I like Yuyuko. I like her a lot. To me, she's quite graceful and majestic, and doing a danmaku battle against her is one of the most beautiful moments in all of Touhou. Plus, she got some epic lines...
Yuyuko has dominion over death. Unfortunately, her past mortal life came to an end because of it. Now she's an eternal ghost with no recollection of her past life. If she ever remembers her past life, it's guaranteed that she will not take it well. She also controls souls of the dearly departed. I'm certain that's the reason why she's in charge of the Netherworld; because she's the best security to keep these souls from doing something stupid before moving on to the next stage of reincarnation. I wonder how she'll handle the souls of the cast if they ever bite it...
I sometimes picture Yuyuko taking a afternoon nap under the Saigyou Ayakashi. It's not so bad, it's not like it's gonna bloom anytime ever. And she's a ghost.
She enjoys picking on Youmu. Well, she enjoys picking on everyone, but Youmu's always there, so... Just one of the many ways she passes the time to avoid insanity. Or perhaps...She's already insane!!
Yuyuko loves to eat, I guess. It's one of her charming qualities. When Yukari introduces ice-cream to Yuyuko, will she suffer brain freeze, or will she ignore that headache? That said, maybe one of the reasons why Yuyuko's Yukari's friend is because Yuyuko displays a degree of cheerfulness that Yukari herself cannot show, and it's soothing to her...
Now, I'm thinking that she's throwing a Netherworldly party right now, because she can and she's awesome like that. All are invited.
edited 31st Oct '13 6:32:36 PM by Diamite
This. Cannot. Continue.
Question - stick a link to the character's Old New Compendium entry in the profiles now?
I meant what I said about getting it up and running within 13 hours. And also that I was seeking suggestions for a better thread title.
Hmm. They are both the supernatural wardens of their respective domains, and due to their natures are kinda stuck with the job. Long-lived, seen a lot, seen a lot come and go. Yeah, I could dig this.
Also odd that they only took notice of her after she offed herself. That whole "kill people" thing may have been useful if, say, some particularly wicked hermits were resisting the celestial hit squad's attempts to bring them to justice (death).
That's the plan!
Makes me wonder whether the difference isn't so much in temperament as it is mortal coils and one's places upon them.
This is a neat idea, and the points you make to support it are actually pretty clever.
It's also Halloween.
True, but, I think Halloween is an auspicious date for the Touhou Compendium in general. A lot of these characters' roots boil down to Japanese ghost stories and other tales of the supernatural, built around a relationship of fear and antagonism.
It certainly had to come from somewhere, yes. Maybe developed over her centuries of holding down the job. Or maybe the accumulated wisdom from hobnobbing with countless departed spirits rubbed off on her.
Or, let me suggest another theory - Yuyuko had a whimsical upbringing as a poet's daughter, but her nature may have already been insightful and serious. Maybe she didn't have just power over death, but a somewhat morbid and fatalistic outlook as a result of that power. She partied with her dad, but while he had his head in the clouds she always had her feet on the ground.
I like this. Youmu acts serious so hard that she ends up being silly, Yuyuko puts on a silly front but is always taking in details, calculating...
Aye, all the places we talked about last time are in The List. But, as per thread rules, we'll have to let the dice decide when we talk about the Human Village.
Ah, see, like I was saying!
And why can't you break the seal, kill the tree, and then send Yuyuko on her merry way?
Might be for the best. Probably wouldn't want to spend eternity with the same mindest you had during your suicide.
I like this too. Yukari's got a reputation to uphold, can't afford to embarrass herself since she has to work with these people/people-shaped-monsters. Aside from Youmu, most of the beings Yuyuko interacts with eventually go on to their next life.
Current earworm: "The White Witch"
Warning!
Being the central character in the story that's one of the cornerstones of Touhou Project, there is a lot to talk about with Yuyuko. So, time to write my interpretation of the IAMP Yuyuko ending as concisely as possible!
Thanks to having differently named spell cards for each difficulty in PCB, and her regular reappearance in games, Yuyuko has (basically?) always been the character with the most spell cards since her first appearance. This may change in the future if she doesn't show up in a game again, when Reimu and Marisa keeps using new spell cards.
In her IAMP profile, Yuyuko is said to be a real patriot who loves her nation. This also echoes Yukari's profile, which says she loves Gensokyo deeply.
Yuyuko's IAMP ending also involves her lecturing Youmu about the proper Japanese way of life. From Yuyuko's point of view, Suika is too attached to the joys of life, unwilling to let it go (that's why when the spring snow incident cut the spring party time short, Suika turned Gensokyo into an unending party), and failed to see mono-no-aware, the transience of all things, that "all good things must come to an end" is beautiful in itself.
Of course, because all this trouble was caused by Yuyuko herself in the first place, her lecturing can also seem awfully hypocritic.
"Resurrection Butterfly" is a regular useable card in Soku, with its feature being it becomes stronger with each use. According to Marisa, Deadly Butterfly "Eternal Sleep in Dreamland" is the reverse of it. These are all clear signs that it is not "the tree attacking".
It must also noted the old note showed great affection for Yuyuko. Whoever wrote it cared about her deeply. Yet the same person also decided removing Yuyuko from reincarnation, this act of utter blasphemy and violation of natural order, was a good cause to take. From this point of view, the writer is either insane, or have a thought pattern very different from an upright Buddhist.
edited 31st Oct '13 11:50:32 PM by atrican
Stop atrican from crawling out of the dumpster! Touhou status updates
One Winged Egret
Okay, I actually have no idea what note you're referring to. Where can I find that?
Warning!
By "old note", I was of course talking about the old record of Yuyuko's sealing in her PCB profile.
The mention of Yukari being part of the plan is here. Just search for Yukari.
I'd say my last paragraph about "utter blasphemy" is more Alternate Interpretation for Yukari than solid canon analysis. In IN it is established that being removed from reincarnation is an extremely horrible thing, however we can't be sure ZUN thought of that when making PCB.
edited 1st Nov '13 12:02:17 AM by atrican
Stop atrican from crawling out of the dumpster! Touhou status updates
One Winged Egret
Searching for "Yukari" just takes me to a bit where he's contrasting her with Reimu for the partner thing. Or did you just mean the implication that ZUN cared about making Yukari interesting enough to contrast with Reimu? This was interesting though:
Also (unrelated):
edited 1st Nov '13 12:09:42 AM by Clarste
I would like to note that her profile implies something a bit different. http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Perfect_Memento_in_Strict_Sense/Yuyuko_Saigyouji
How great that we have a ghost to talk about for Halloween.
@Yukari and Yuyuko: Like Touhou tradition, Ex-bosses are inextricably related to Final bosses. Though, the recent games have buck the trend. This time it isn't Ran and Yuyuko, but Yukari and Yuyuko.
In either case, Yukari does know Yuyuko prior to her death. http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Yukari_Yakumo
... but that it was Yuyuko's body that was sealing the Saigyou Ayakashi.
Yukari's profile seems to imply several other things. Like how Yukari has met the Saigyouji family enough to know what they are like. I would assume that she is friends with Yuyuko during this time and that is how she knows about the Saigyouji family's tendencies.
I also like that, it was a good story. The only canon basis you can think of for that series are some leaps of logic. Like it makes sense that Yukari would be the one who sealed Yuyuko's body. As Yukari is likely friends with Yuyuko at this time.
EDIT: @note, found in Yuyuko's profile, http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Yuyuko_Saigyouji:
"The girl who bears witness to death, at the time of the Saigyou Ayakashi's full bloom, shall be bound by mortality. So that her soul may rest in peace within Hakugyokurou, I will seal the cherry blossoms, and make it the barrier. My wish... is that she will never again reincarnate, and never again suffer pain..."
edited 1st Nov '13 12:26:33 AM by starx
Everything is relative.
Warning!
Yeah, I should be more responsible with quoting my sources.
The IN demo file is an important document, but way too long for a casual read. Search key word: "team".
In short: ZUN envisioned a trilogy, with the third game allowing the player to control human-youkai teams: the EOSD and PCB boss teams, and Reimu and Marisa's teams. When making PCB, he worked backwards from this high concept: Marisa needed a partner, so he put Alice in PCB. Reimu's partner was harder to think about, so he came up with Yukari.
Slightly more detailed discussion here.
This still leaves the possibility that ZUN only nailed Yukari's character after finishing most of PCB. The final confirmation that Yukari was always part of PCB's design came from the TD interview. When discussing the difficult conception of TD's Extra, ZUN said PCB's Extra/Phantom stages were conceived from the beginning.
edited 1st Nov '13 2:08:03 AM by atrican
Stop atrican from crawling out of the dumpster! Touhou status updates
The not holding grudges is another plus, but I do think that her being removed from the cycle of reincarnation was a important factor as well. Don't want someone running the Netherworld who will eventually reincarnate themselves. You want someone who is there for the long hall.
Also, nice find on Yukari and the note btw.
(I am fine with linking to the profiles from other Compendiums btw)
Don't PM me. We don't like being PMed.
Baring hearts for years
RE; Yuyuko's power. her profile says it started out as '... to manipulate the dead', and eventually grew into the 'causing death' bit. That does also help explain why she committed suicide later in life. She probably would have been more ok with it if she'd had to deal with it from birth.
Also, RE: her being sealed... I wonder if she at least gave consent to be trapped from reincarnating ever again. My money's on no. Someone realized "Oh hey, death lady's corpse can probably seal the tree!" Fwoop and now Yuyuko's barred from reincarnating. Thanks, jerk. Oh well, at least she's cool with it I guess. As for the others, it seems they were basically sealed when the tree was. Not a great place to die quietly, in hindsight.
Also, uh... I guess if she didn't know her body was used to seal the tree, she just.. would have no idea that she was the person she was trying to raise in PCB. Profile says she forgot, though, so maybe she did give consent... though even then whether or not she knew the 'barred from reincarnating forever' bit is unclear... and unlikely. Not like there's precedent to look at.
I think its got a sort of "hypnotic beauty", such that when people see it, they're like "Nothing could be more perfect than dying in the presence of this tree that is so beautiful... having seen it, nothing else could ever compare." Commence suicide/death by staring at the tree and forgetting to eat or drink. Then the tree just kinda... drinks the spilled blood, basically.
As much as I want to hate you for saying that, it's really, really hard to argue against >_>. Poor girl basically drew the shortest straw imaginable. Maybe in her past life she was a serial killer. But god bless her, at least she's trying.
Really, the two are an odd fit, though (For Yuyuko its fine, but for Youmu, it's the perfectly wrong fit. Yuyuko's instruction methods and paradigm are just too foreign to Youmu's own for there to be a good mentorship going on there.)
I actually pictured it the other way. Yukari seems to tune in to a lot of different wavelengths (Offhand Reimu, Yuyuko, Remilia, and Eirin at a minimum. And those four minds all think very differently.); she knows how to manipulate people extremely well, and being able to understand how they'll act and why is key to that.
As for how Yuyuko thinks... well, she's a ghost, and she knows it. I don't think she holds any illusions of being on 'the human side' should it come down to it. I'm not sure she's on 'the youkai side' either, but I think that more likely than her seeing herself as unaffiliated (As she probably should, what with both humans and youkai going through her, in a sense)
And now we know why Satori is such an outcast. More seriously, Yuyuko's spellcards are interesting... they really do have quite a bit more personal meaning, rather than simply being references ('Attack on Kobito', for instance, doesn't say much about Sukuna.)
Really? I think she'd take it in stride. Its so distant and impersonal now it'd be like reading an autobiography you wrote in a past life. If anything, the danger would come from the possibility that maybe her memories are tied to the seal, so if she remembered, the seal would be undone or something like that.
Reimu better be ready for all of the snark.
I'd say yes, if possible. And since you're looking for the links/have them anyway to update the previous one, it oughtn'y be much harder beyond that?
Seiga had only been cheating death for a few centuries at that point. Probably didn't warrent such a cheat button. And now... IIRC, using her power means the person isn't properly judged (Go directly to Netherworld, do not pass Muenzuka, do not face the Yama), which is exactly what the ministry doesn't want for Seiga. Maybe they'll get desperate enough though, who knows?
This is something I've wondered. Going by the 'Yuyuko is the tree' theory, its trivial to explain; yuyuko's soul's gone, and obviously killing the tree results in obvious. But without that, it's tougher. Perhaps the tree is just that dangerous. Like, perhaps it had to be sealed by a blind and heavily disciplined mystic because anyone who sees it loses all purpose in life except to die under its branches. merely being blind wouldn't be enough because the scents and such are part of the scene.
Hmmmm... This bit from PMISS brings to mind another possibility.
This makes me think that anyone who was killed by the tree is, like Yuyuko, sealed with it. So it may have been a "This is a terrible, horrible thing to do, but it's only going to become more necessary and more of a horrible thing to do if we don't do it now."
Hm. Yet she doesn't know the whole story (which apparently only youki does), but she does know Yuyuko is the key to the seal. What part of the story is she missing? Maybe the same parts we are (did Yuyuko consent, etc.)
I really do think this is why she got the job and still has it. Easier to have a single go-to representative than needing to pass this thing down the line. The fact that Yuyuko is particularly fitting and/or good at it is handy.
Though her lack of reincarnation probably irks the Yamas. In POFV Youmu ending, When she 'teaches' Youmu the finer points of tea ceremonies rather than, you know, why Youmu shouldn't cut entire reincarnation cycle with her sword (like the Yama asked Yuyuko to teach), one gets the impression that Yuyuko can't be touched by the Yama and knows it. She can spit in the Yama's face and there ain't nothing Shikieiki could do about it. Yuyuko's too gracious to actually do that, but she knows she's got diplomatic immunity and she's all too willing to abuse it.
I write some fanfiction. Satori's Tale is done... but I'm not.
Last thread, they told you that the Touhou invasion was complete. But that would imply that the Touhou juggernaut will stop at some point.
The original
Touhou Character Alternate Interpretation Compendium was big, over 212 pages and 5200 posts of discussion about Touhou's cast. The second Compendium
was huge, 970 pages and 24,200 posts of character interpretations, short fiction, and media. This may beg the questions of what a third Compendium could hope to add and what would be different about it, but luckily the answer to both is the same.
The first two Compendiums were democratic affairs, where participants would vote for the characters they wanted to discuss. People got what they wanted, more or less, but this had the side effect of bringing the more popular Touhou characters to the front half of the discussions, leaving the end of the threads' lives to be dominated by less popular - or worse, PC-98 - cast members, which had the expected effect on the discussion. While this doesn't mean we didn't come up with interesting things to say about those characters, it did result in the threads entering an unmistakable decline past a certain point.
The solution: randomness.
Modus Operandi:
Using a list of Touhou characters and locations, as well as a random number generator, the Compendium administrator will come up with a conversation topic and post a profile for that character. After that, well, Fawriel said it best:
In other words, give us your interpretation of the character, even if it deviates from canon or fanon. Tell us what you think of her, and if your thoughts turn out to take a few paragraphs, put a title on them and call it a write-up. If you're feeling inspired, share a mini-'fic with us. You can tell us how her theme music makes you feel, what you think her character design says about her, how you think her mythological origins fit into the setting, speculate about her past or future, recommend doujin that you think offer an interesting take on her, share some good fanart of the character, link your favorite remixes of her stage theme, read into her spellcards, daydream about how you'd portray her in a fangame, whatever - just feel free to contribute! Be creative, and have fun!
To this end, the thread's rules are pretty simple:
The Rules:
As the thread goes on, I'll be keeping a set of links to the start of discussions and tropers' contributions - write-ups, mini-fics, picdumps, etc. - up on page one. This means one list sorted by character, and then another sorted by troper.
By the end of the thread, this is gonna be a pretty big post!
Character List:
Alice Margatroid
Aya Shameimaru
Benben Tsukumo
Byakuren Hijiri
Chen
Chiyuri Kitashirakawa
Cirno
Clownpiece
Daiyousei
Doremy Sweet
Eirin Yagokoro
Elis
Ellen
Elly
Eternity Larva
Flandre Scarlet
Fujiwara no Mokou
Gengetsu and Mugetsu
Genjii
Hata no Kokoro
Hatate Himekaidou
Hecatia Lapislazuli
Hieda no Akyuu
Hina Kagiyama
Hong Meiling
Ichirin Kumoi and Unzan
Iku Nagae
Jo'on Yorigami
Junko
Kagerou Imaizumi
Kaguya Houraisan
Kana Anaberal
Kanako Yasaka
Kasen Ibaraki
Keine Kamishirasawa
Kisume
Koakuma
Kogasa Tatara
Koishi Komeiji
Komachi Onozuka
Konngara
Kotohime
Kyouko Kasodani
Letty Whiterock
Lily White
Louise
Luna Child
Mai Tereda
Mamizou Futatsuiwa
Maribel Hearn and Renko Usami
Marisa Kirisame
Medicine Melancholy
Meira
Mima
Minamitsu Murasa
Minoriko Aki
Momiji Inubashiri
Mononobe no Futo
Mystia Lorelei
Narumi Yatadera
Nemuno Sakata
Nitori Kawashiro
Nue Houjuu
Okina Matara
Orange
Parsee Mizuhashi
Patchouli Knowledge
The Prismriver Sisters
Raiko Horikawa
Ran Yakumo
Reimu Hakurei
Reisen
Reisen Udongein Inaba
Remilia Scarlet
Rika
Rikako Asakura
Rin Kaenbyou
Ringo
Rinnosuke Morichika
Rumia
Sagume Kishin
The Saigyou Ayakashi
Sakuya Izayoi
Sanae Kochiya
Sara
Sariel
Satono Nishida
Seiga Kaku
Seija Kijin
Seiran
Sekibanki
Shingyoku
Shinki
Shinmyoumaru Sukuna
Shion Yorigami
Shizuha Aki
Shou Toramaru
Star Sapphire
Suika Ibuki
Sumireko Usami
Sunny Milk
Suwako Moriya
Tenshi Hinanawi
Tewi Inaba
Tokiko
Toyosatomimi no Miko
Utsuho Reiuji
Wakasagihime
Watatsuki no Toyohime and Watatsuki no Yorihime
Wriggle Nightbug
Yamame Kurodani
Yatsuhashi Tsukumo
Youmu Konpaku
Yukari Yakumo
Yuki and Mai
Yumemi Okazaki
YuugenMagan
Yuugi Hoshiguma
Yuuka Kazami
Yuyuko Saigyouji
Location List:
Bhava-agra
Eientei
Gensokyo
The Human Village
The Lunar Capital
Makai
The Netherworld
The Underworld
Youkai Mountain
Titled contributions by Troper:
Antimatter 625: Bhava-agra
, Byakuren
, Cirno
, the Human Village
, Kanako
, Kasen
, Medicine
, Miko
, Reimu
, Reisen 1
and 2
, Remilia 1
and 2
, Sanae
, Tenshi
Clarste: Akyuu
Cynicmuffin: Suwako
Diamite: Akyuu
, Chiyuri
, Ellen
, Elly
, Genjii
, Kasen
, Komachi
, Reimu
, Sanae
, Sara
,
Shingyoku
, Shinki
, Tenshi
, Yuki and Mai
, Yumemi
Horselesshorseman: Chiyuri
, Yuyuko 1
and 2
ninryu: Yuyuko
Otherarrow: Akyuu
, Miko
, Reimu
, Sanae
, Suwako
, Tenshi
, Yuyuko
shiroimahotsukai: Reisen
, Yumemi
, Yuyuko
Tacitus: Cirno
, Kanako
, Mokou
Reimu
,
Rika
,Sakuya
, Suwako
, Yuki and Mai
, Yuyuko
edited 21st May '18 6:34:14 PM by Tacitus
Current earworm: "The White Witch"