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Needs Help: Sweater Girl
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Needs Help: Sweater Girl get usage counts

I think this trope is a lot broader then it should be. Sweater girl is a pre-existing term about women in sweaters wearing bullet bras to show some form of boobs. It rarely gets used in modern works unless it's a Period Piece.

Here it's seems to be defined as a hot girl in a sweater. I propose change it so it's more inline with the pre-existing term.

 2 nrjxll, Sat, 5th Oct '13 3:19:09 PM Relationship Status: Not war
Here it's seems to be defined as a hot girl in a sweater. I propose change it so it's more inline with the pre-existing term.

Honestly, with a name like this, it's a miracle anyone's managed to keep the "hot" part. This may be a preexisting term (although not one I've ever heard), but it's horribly vague.

 3 Native Jovian, Sat, 5th Oct '13 3:38:53 PM from Orlando, Florida
Io vs Jupiter
Tropes Are Flexible. It's about a specific form of Fanservice involving well-endowed women in tight sweaters. Unless you can show misuse, I don't think we need to make any changes.
...how is this even a trope?

 5 X Fllo, Sat, 5th Oct '13 4:28:45 PM Relationship Status: Every rose has its thorn
[up] It's an old form of fanservice and one of Attraction Tropes.

edited 5th Oct '13 4:29:07 PM by XFllo

 6 0dd1, Sat, 5th Oct '13 4:40:50 PM from Nowhere Land Relationship Status: And here's to you, Mrs. Robinson
Still just awesome like that
If we're going to use it as "This girl is wearing a sweater! Isn't that sexy?", then I'd argue it's not at all necessary. Seems way too pervy. Hell, just look at the image caption:
Just in case her skintight suit in the movie wasn't hot enough...
Come on, man, at least pretend like you weren't drooling on the keyboard when you wrote that.note  I thought we had an effort to purge crap like that? This fall through the cracks?

Insert witty and clever quip here.

New handle, same name.

My music.
This seems like a pretty clear trope to me. Apart from a vague name I'm not seeing a problem here.

 8 0dd1, Sat, 5th Oct '13 5:09:51 PM from Nowhere Land Relationship Status: And here's to you, Mrs. Robinson
Still just awesome like that
Well, if nothing else, removing pervy comments like the image caption is definitely in order.
Insert witty and clever quip here.

New handle, same name.

My music.
I really doubt Girl Wearing A Sweater counts as a trope.

I thought Attraction Tropes dealt tropes about In-universe attractiveness. I don't think this is one of them.

Mm-hmm. It's creepy gushing.

 12 shoboni, Sat, 5th Oct '13 6:38:28 PM from Iowa, USA
Trust me, it's a legitimately "credited" form of fan-service, especially in Manga and Anime.

Does look it could just use a quick misuse clean-up though.

And how is the caption pervy(unless it's been changed already)

edited 5th Oct '13 6:39:15 PM by shoboni

"It's not that simple. We are all both, good and evil, we have rage and compassion, we have love and hate...murder and forgiveness."
 13 0dd1, Sat, 5th Oct '13 6:41:30 PM from Nowhere Land Relationship Status: And here's to you, Mrs. Robinson
Still just awesome like that
it's a legitimately "credited" form of fan-service
Is there an official Fanservice Accreditation Board out there or something?

Look, all I'm saying is that we don't need creepy fan gushy stuff on here. There's a reason we purged the Fetish Fuel pages from the site long ago and there's a reason we don't allow examples on pages to gush about how much the writer wants to gush on someone. Is there any way we can make this a legitimate in-universe trope and can limit it accordingly so that we can avoid creepiness?

And it's been changed, thank God. The original caption was quoted in my first post above. *shudder*

edited 5th Oct '13 6:45:12 PM by Odd1

Insert witty and clever quip here.

New handle, same name.

My music.
Not seeing how the fanservice part isn't already covered by Form-Fitting Wardrobe.

 15 0dd1, Sat, 5th Oct '13 6:45:40 PM from Nowhere Land Relationship Status: And here's to you, Mrs. Robinson
Still just awesome like that
I just read through several sections of the examples. Each and every example I saw was literally pretty much just "This character/person wears [a] sweater[s] [in This Work].

This is pretty much just People Sit on Chairs here.

EDIT: Here's all the examples from the bottow few sections of the page. Nothing here of value, maybe literally one or two that actually are relevant to the preexisting term:
    Videogames 

    Webcomics 

    Western Animation 

    Real Life 

edited 5th Oct '13 6:49:30 PM by Odd1

Insert witty and clever quip here.

New handle, same name.

My music.
 16 0dd1, Sat, 5th Oct '13 6:48:24 PM from Nowhere Land Relationship Status: And here's to you, Mrs. Robinson
Still just awesome like that
Oh, and I just realized, this is supposed to be a fanservice trope? Then why do we have a prepubescent girl in the examples?
  • Mabel in Gravity Falls has an unlimited amount of sweaters, bonus points for being custom made.
Seriously?
Insert witty and clever quip here.

New handle, same name.

My music.
The examples were what I looked at and it seemed to be the case.

 18 0dd1, Sat, 5th Oct '13 6:53:51 PM from Nowhere Land Relationship Status: And here's to you, Mrs. Robinson
Still just awesome like that
Okay, putting down my torch and pitchfork for a second, is there any way at all anyone can think we can salvage this page? Or should we just torch 'n trash here?
Insert witty and clever quip here.

New handle, same name.

My music.
[up][up][up][up] Well, to be fair even under its current definition a trope like this shouldn't have had a real life section in the first place.

edited 5th Oct '13 6:55:55 PM by captainpat

 20 0dd1, Sat, 5th Oct '13 7:01:31 PM from Nowhere Land Relationship Status: And here's to you, Mrs. Robinson
Still just awesome like that
Even discounting the real life section, practically none of the examples are anything beyond "This character in this work wears sweaters." Or "Work: [[imagelink Character]]."

EDIT: Here's more. Again, maybe two examples here that fit the bill? And even the ones that do seem to fit somewhat...they don't explain much, and there doesn't seem to even be a point in them being here.
    Comicbooks 
  • The girls of Archie Comics are prone to wearing the occasional tight sweater, especially Veronica.

    Film 
  • At the end of TRON, Lora wore a white angora sweater, seen in the picture above.
  • In Lord Love A Duck, Barbara Ann (Tuesday Weld) wants sweaters so that she'll fit in with the 'in' crowd, and goes shopping for them with her father. The scene with her trying on the sweaters in front of him is rather disturbing.
  • Kristen Bell's character in Fanboys refers to her breasts as "Sweater yams".
  • As Corey in Empire Records, Liv Tyler wears a tight blue cropped sweater, which is featured prominently on the poster.
  • Explicitly pointed out to Goldie Hawn in Housesitter.
  • Lana Turner in a bunch of movies starting with They Won't Forget. She was even called the Sweater Girl, which makes her the Trope Namer.
  • In Walk the Line, Johnny Cash is quickly seduced backstage by a Sweater Girl Groupie.
  • Reese Witherspoon
  • Ed Wood pulls off a Wholesome Crossdresser version in his film Glen or Glenda?, which is cheerfully reprised by Johnny Depp in the Biopic Ed Wood.
  • One of the first uses of the new powers gained in Zapped was to make a girl's pink sweater pop open to reveal her (also pink) bra underneath.
  • Susan Abbott wears a purple fuzzy sweater in Anchors Aweigh.

edited 5th Oct '13 7:04:45 PM by Odd1

Insert witty and clever quip here.

New handle, same name.

My music.
 21 shoboni, Sat, 5th Oct '13 7:09:10 PM from Iowa, USA
Does anyone know what a joke is around here?
"It's not that simple. We are all both, good and evil, we have rage and compassion, we have love and hate...murder and forgiveness."
FTR, sweaters as fanservice predate manga and anime by decades, as the Wikipedia article linked on the page notes. It seems there was even a movie called Sweater Girl released in 1942. And this was definitely a way of Getting Crap Past the Radar back in the day, a way of showing off a curvy actress when neither nudity nor scenes with women wearing bras/lingerie were allowed. Go watch that scene from They Won't Forget (mentioned on the page) that made Lana Turner famous. Or the scenes with Janet Leigh in The Manchurian Candidate or Kim Novak as Judy in Vertigo.

As to whether Sweater Girl is a trope or not... if it isn't, then there are a lot of costuming Fanservice tropes that aren't really tropes. In fact, we have an entire index, Fanservice Costumes, which is about this (and for some reason doesn't include Sweater Girl, no idea why). It seems like we have a lot of precedent for regarding specific uses of "sexy woman in sexy clothing/outfit" as tropes.
If I could figure out how to make that "relationship status" thing go away, I would
I never said Sweater Girl wasn't a trope. I just think it's more specific what we current have. Also, lets not get sidetracked with other tropes, those can be dealt with later.

There may be misuse on the page. Certainly, a prepubescent girl like the one mentioned won't fit. The point seems to be that it is in theory relatively modest and functional clothing that tends to be fairly formfitting, thus allowing the author to have a curvy figure showed off by a woman who is not actually showing anything. Further, she may be of the type of personality too modest for flashier types of fanservice. That last part isn't actually an inherent part of the trope, I suppose, so much as why a writer might choose to use this type of fanservice.

So I'm not really seeing a problem with the trope. A problem with the tropers, perhaps, but not the trope.

edited 5th Oct '13 7:24:32 PM by Arha

[up] If that's the definition of this trope then it needs to be renamed because none of the examples are written like that and I'm pretty sure it's not almost never used like that on the wicks.

Page Action: Sweater Girl
6th Oct '13 9:10:54 PM
What would be the best way to fix the page?
At issue:
Note: Renaming and redefining the trope are not mutually exclusive, though all other options are.
Total posts: 182
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