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MorwenEdhelwen Aussie Tolkien freak from Sydney, Australia Since: Jul, 2012
Aussie Tolkien freak
#1: Sep 25th 2013 at 6:18:12 AM

(Warning: Discussion of rape)

One of my ideas/drafts is a post-apocalyptic adaptation of Ragnar Lodbrok And His Sons set in a world set back to a steampunk Middle Ages including a neo-Norse society in Scandinavia and parts of North America due to the Viking Age being seen as a second golden age. The heroine Áslaug/Kráka from Markland (part of what was once Canada) but born in Iceland marries Ragnar Lodbrok who's years older than her. Even though she's 13 she's considered an adult— old enough to marry someone eight years older than her. The story follows the general outline of the saga plot and I've got everything figured out except for one crucial scene.

In the original story Áslaug asks Ragnar to not have sex with her for three days after their marriage or else something bad will happen. birth of Ivar the Boneless The translation I have says that "he followed his own advice." Basically, he rapes her. The problem's that this project's written from double first person PO Vs. Áslaug narrates one chapter and Ragnar narrates the other.

Ragnar and Áslaug's marriage was a love match/based on attraction or turned into one quickly; after all

"Their marriage was good and full of love."

Marital rape isn't out of place in a post-apocalyptic neo-medieval society but it's a sensitive issue. Is there a way I can portray this realistically without someone going "Why doesn't this girl just divorce him?"

Going with "Because they love each other that's why" sounds like Áslaug is like Nancy in Oliver! singing "As Long As He Needs Me" about her husband Ragnar. Their relationship isn't like that. Plus I want to make Ragnar sympathetic so that when he sings the Krakumal in a snake pit (probably into a PA system. Maybe Future!AU!King Aella records Ragnar's death song and has the recording mailed to his family) the audience sympathises with him and his family. Is there a way to depict this realistically and keep Ragnar a sympathetic character without giving the impression that I'm taking marital rape lightly? I once read a creative nonfiction book in which the author describes an argument between her parents which turned violent due to her father being under a lot of stress. It was the only incident like that in her family and her parents' marriage and for days after the incident her parents were very cold around each other when normally they were very openly affectionate). So apparently it is possible for a person to snap and do something violent to a partner which is never repeated.

edited 27th Sep '13 1:53:07 AM by MorwenEdhelwen

The road goes ever on. -Tolkien
Gabrael from My musings Since: Nov, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
#2: Sep 25th 2013 at 12:05:49 PM

Can't you just change that part of the story?

If the only thing you are doing is just changing the circumstances but leaving the story exactlyas is, then you wwould have to keep that there too.

If you are making changes, then keep changing.

"Psssh. Even if you could catch a miracle on a picture any person would probably delete it to make space for more porn." - Aszur
imadinosaur Since: Oct, 2011
#3: Sep 25th 2013 at 12:58:38 PM

I'd be tempted to age her up a bit, if I were you. Having sex with a 13-year-old would make a lot of people loathe the character on principle. 16 would still get 'wow that's young', and it would still creep some people out, but it would soften things a lot. If you want to keep him sympathetic, you might also want to have him seduce her instead of rape. Especially if this is YA, which IIRC is the kind of audience you tend to try and write for.

If you do want to keep the marital rape in (I don't know the original tale, so I don't know how central that is to the story), I think the fact that she doesn't want to fend for herself in a post-apocalyptic neo-medieval society could explain why she doesn't leave him. Divorce may simply not be an option. There are exceptional women who can make their own way in that kind of society, but they are exceptional.

Also, peer pressure is a hell of a thing. Give him a friend saying 'hey, you tapped that sweet young thing yet?' Failing to consummate the marriage would lead people to doubt his masculinity (even if there's no way for them to know, it might make him feel like less of a man and so on). Most importantly, have him regret his actions (it sounds like they cause some kind of monster to be born?) if you want him to be at all sympathetic. Though I would change it to seduction, myself (which many people would still find creepy given the age difference, but again it would soften the blow).

Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.
ohsointocats from The Sand Wastes Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#4: Sep 25th 2013 at 3:09:25 PM

How does she know that something bad would happen?

MorwenEdhelwen Aussie Tolkien freak from Sydney, Australia Since: Jul, 2012
Aussie Tolkien freak
#5: Sep 25th 2013 at 3:23:29 PM

[up] Because she's a seer and can see the future.

The road goes ever on. -Tolkien
ohsointocats from The Sand Wastes Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#6: Sep 25th 2013 at 3:24:48 PM

So she never has any doubt in her mind about anything she sees in the future ever.

MorwenEdhelwen Aussie Tolkien freak from Sydney, Australia Since: Jul, 2012
Aussie Tolkien freak
#7: Sep 25th 2013 at 4:32:41 PM

[up] Basically yes. The consequences of that are explored.

[up][up] The old "Hey Ragnar... have you slept with her yet?" could work. Because in a neo-medieval society a king would be expected to produce heirs.

@Imadinosaur: making her 15 or 16 (or even just a year older) would definitely help. Thanks for the suggestion. Yes it leads to the birth of Ivar The Boneless who had "cartilage where his bones should be."

edited 25th Sep '13 5:13:31 PM by MorwenEdhelwen

The road goes ever on. -Tolkien
demarquis Who Am I? from Hell, USA Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Buried in snow, waiting for spring
Who Am I?
#8: Sep 26th 2013 at 2:21:15 PM

Depending on how complex a story you want to tell, it would be possible with characters that young not to understand the implications of how they treat each other. In other words, he takes her after she says no, but not violently, and neither of them realizes that this is a type of rape until they both gain in experience and maturity. You could explore the implications for both characters as they gradually come to understand the full implications of what they did (you could even use Ivar as the symbolic representation of this).

edited 26th Sep '13 2:21:43 PM by demarquis

"We learn from history that we do not learn from history."
MorwenEdhelwen Aussie Tolkien freak from Sydney, Australia Since: Jul, 2012
Aussie Tolkien freak
#9: Sep 26th 2013 at 5:44:33 PM

@demarquis: Good idea on the symbolic use of Ivar!

The road goes ever on. -Tolkien
Wolf1066 Crazy Kiwi from New Zealand Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Dancing with myself
Crazy Kiwi
#10: Sep 26th 2013 at 6:30:38 PM

I think demarquis has got it nailed.

It would enable the events to happen but for Ragnar to realise later that his actions were reprehensible. It doesn't need to be violent to be non-consensual, so he could have been justifying his actions - "no means yes", "she's my wife", "it's only seduction", "I didn't actually hurt her", "I convinced her"...

"Actually, dude, that was rape."

"Oh, fuck."

Done well, you could convincingly convey some of the misconceptions people have about what constitutes rape and what is "acceptable" - and show that it's not really acceptable and Ragnar comes to realise it.

His genuine horror at what he's done and the consequences should make him more sympathetic than just "you won't give it so I'll take it by force."

You'd have to pitch it so that he genuinely believes he is doing no wrong - even if the reader can instantly see it's dodgy.

MorwenEdhelwen Aussie Tolkien freak from Sydney, Australia Since: Jul, 2012
Aussie Tolkien freak
#11: Sep 26th 2013 at 7:53:52 PM

[up]That actually reminds me of a book I read about forced marriage in Pakistan.

The road goes ever on. -Tolkien
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