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Misused: Bilingual Bonus
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Misused: Bilingual Bonus get usage counts

@49 — or it doesn't add information beyond "this character speaks more than one language, isn't that special?"
I'm not even sure how a Creator could avoid adding more information than "the character speaks multiple languages" if the character is demonstrating that capability within the work. At the very least, it demonstrates the Creator's familiarity with the second language, and possibly the actor's as well. The vast majority of instances I can see additional information getting passed along.
  • Firefly example: creates an exotic flavour to the 'Verse where Chinese is much more integrated into English-speakng society as a whole, and shows the unfamiliarity of the actors with the language.
  • Stargate example: shows that Cameron isn't quite the "thick" person that Danial and the representative assumed he was.

Caveat to "is untranslated": "untranslated or has an alternative translation that is ignored".
  • example 1: Johnny English has one scene in a sushi restaurant. Johnny toasts with "May your daughters have tiny penises." The American subtitle translation reads, "May all of your daughters be born with three bottoms."
  • example 2: Deaf people often laughed when they watched silent movies. They had the Bilingual Bonus of being able to read lips. The actors often did deliberate mismatches.


@50 — Not true: The viewer can determine "Cameron demonstrates he knows Daniel and the Ambassador were talking about him." without knowing the exact words he used. The viewer who does not know he said "Screw you" may assume "Jerks", "Assholes", "Fuck you", or "That was rude". So the meaning isn't the Easter Egg: the exact wording is. If we exclude Cameron's demonstration of Mandarin, then there's no Bonus content: the meaning is conveyed without the viewer knowing Mandarin.
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 52 Madrugada, Sat, 26th Oct '13 8:35:24 PM Relationship Status: In season
Zzzzzzzzzz
Anything can be used to guess at additional information. "I don't think what he said was nice" is not "added extra information". It's a guess.

Untranslated within the work.

edited 26th Oct '13 8:36:10 PM by Madrugada

'He strutted across the bedroom, his hard manhood pointing the way' sounds like he owns a badly named seeing-eye dog. 'Sit, Hard Manhood!
One option has a good lead so far. I'd also note that I added a new option; it's not mutually exclusive with the one in the lead, and is also in the green, but far fewer votes total, and I'd like to see what people think of it.

I do no know if that would count as an Easter Egg.

Anything can be used to guess at additional information. "I don't think what he said was nice" is not "added extra information". It's a guess.

Untranslated within the work.
All I can understand from your post is "cut those four examples".
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I've changed my mind on the Meaningful Name thing. I reread its definition, and it specifically includes foreign languages in its description, so having examples in Bilingual Bonus is completely redundant.

(OTOH, I'm not sure how that should affect this trope. Does it have to be written to specifically exclude Meaningful Names?)

 57 Septimus Heap, Sun, 10th Nov '13 12:36:39 AM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
A Wizard boy
Two tropes don't have to be mutually exclusive in all circumstances. Some overlap is allowed.

16:2

Crowner is pretty stable.
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 59 Willbyr, Sun, 10th Nov '13 8:33:20 AM from North Little Rock, AR Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
With Mod Hat On
Calling for the leading option.
Okay, so expanding the definition to only include Easter Egg in a foreign language, excluding "incidences of untranslated foreign language" and "Meaningful Name in a foreign language."

Is that correct?

Not correct. Your post looks like it's saying to exclude untranslated examples. The trope is:
  • Redefined to "Easter Egg in a foreign language". (crowner - 16:2)
    • It must be untranslated within the work. (Mod statement)
    • It must be more than "Character(s) say 'X' in a foreign language." (Mod statement and Crowner - 4:10)
    • It is not a Meaningful Name. (Crowner - 4:7)

edited 10th Nov '13 5:29:00 PM by crazysamaritan

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Yeah, I should've had "generalized" in that first quoted phrase.

 63 Madrugada, Sun, 10th Nov '13 6:30:27 PM Relationship Status: In season
Zzzzzzzzzz
A multilingual character who uses their second (third, fourth, whatever) language counts, as long as an audience member who also knows that language would be able to understand what they said. A character who is stated to be multilingual but never actually says anything in their second (third, fourth, whatever) language does not count.

That's the distinction between "happens to be bi- or multilingual" and "demonstrates their bi- or multilingual abilities".

If the foreign language is translated immediately following its use in the work (Cherie says "la bureau de ma tante est sur le plume de mon oncle, " and Bill says "She said "My aunt's dresser is on my uncle's pen.") it's not an example.

If the translation comes much later in the work (for instance if the detective provides a translation during the Summation Gathering, but knowing what the mysterious foreigner said back in chapter four as he died would have provided an additional clue to the reader) it still counts as a Bilingual Bonus — bilingual members of the audience got bonus information.
'He strutted across the bedroom, his hard manhood pointing the way' sounds like he owns a badly named seeing-eye dog. 'Sit, Hard Manhood!
"Demonstrates" lost in the voting. I added, and was advocating for it, but a 4:10 ratio said that demonstrating multilingual ability, such as three of my four examples, did not count as Bilingual Bonus.

edited 10th Nov '13 6:57:50 PM by crazysamaritan

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 65 Septimus Heap, Mon, 11th Nov '13 11:23:40 PM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
A Wizard boy
This sounds to me like editing the description is the only thing left.

Wicks and examples aren't fully scrubbed.
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 67 Septimus Heap, Tue, 12th Nov '13 3:10:41 AM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
A Wizard boy
Scrubbed from what? We don't usually do scrubbings for the sake of it - we don't have the manpower for these.

We don't normally clean out examples when a trope has the definition changed?
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 69 Septimus Heap, Tue, 12th Nov '13 3:39:59 AM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
A Wizard boy
If you broaden a trope to fit a misuse pattern, then that misuse pattern is no longer a problem. I am asking because I am not sure if there are other misuse patterns that still need to be scrubbed.

exclude "<X character or person> happens to be bi-or-multi-lingual."

Examples where dialogue or written text happens to be foreign is not an example. You can review my four earlier samples for examples that do not qualify under the new definition. (The misuse was very broad, the new definition does not cover all if the misuse)
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 71 Septimus Heap, Tue, 12th Nov '13 3:54:51 AM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
A Wizard boy
Dang it. Do we have the manpower do scrub all the wicks?

Not very quickly. I'll prioritize Hell Is That Noise, the recent Orson Scott Card pages, and then I can start to work on this guy. Unless I have to do a wick check for another trope. That'll halt me.
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 73 Willbyr, Tue, 12th Nov '13 4:18:13 AM from North Little Rock, AR Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Anime-ted
[up] There's just shy of 2900 wicks...sounds like a task for Short Term Projects.
All wicks using this trope as "Meaningful Name in a foreign language" also need to be scrubbed, per the crowner results.

I'm guessing this stalled out because there's a lot to do.

Perhaps the first (and easiest) thing to be done is to sandbox the redefinition, and take care of the wicks in Long Term Projects?

Page Action: Bilingual Bonustake 2
25th Oct '13 5:39:58 PM
What would be the best way to fix the page?
At issue:
Total posts: 78
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