TV Tropes Org

Forums

On-Topic Conversations:
Global Activism Thread
search forum titles
google site search
Total posts: [58]
1
 2 3

Global Activism Thread:

 1 De Marquis, Fri, 20th Sep '13 2:03:40 PM from Hell, USA Relationship Status: Buried in snow, waiting for spring
Who Am I?
This is a news and information thread to update ourselves on events and activities related to activism, protest movements and efforts toward political reform anywhere in the world. This thread is intended to supplement regionally-defined threads like the Arab Spring or the protests in Turkey or Brazil. Here, we can cover anything, anywhere, and share our questions and opinions.

I am esp. interested in the insights from Tropers who live in areas in which activist or protest activities are taking place.

Here are some good informational websites to get us all started:

Global Voices- basically a blog collection service from around the world.

Open Democracy- essays and news.

Human Rights Watch- the famous human rights watchdogs.

Freedom House Dedicated to the expansion of freedom.

The Arabist Specifically focused on the Middle East.

So, anyone got some info to share? Or comment on an article they saw?

edited 20th Sep '13 2:04:19 PM by demarquis

“Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty. The obedient must be slaves.”
 2 Fighteer, Fri, 20th Sep '13 2:05:34 PM from the Time Vortex Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
This seems like an okay thread, but we do already have dedicated threads for a number of specific events. I'm not sure what this one will bring to the table that the others don't. If there is already a thread about one of these topics, it's probably best to take it there. General information, however, would be fine to share.
Neoclassicism, AKA the Tinkerbell school of economics.
 3 demarquis, Fri, 20th Sep '13 2:07:33 PM from Hell, USA Relationship Status: Buried in snow, waiting for spring
Who Am I?
I understand. But there are a large number of regions in the world which are not covered by any special thread, and where activity is not frequent enough to justify a special thread. Hence, this one for a global focus.
“Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty. The obedient must be slaves.”
 4 Achaemenid, Fri, 20th Sep '13 2:23:00 PM from the dear green place. Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
Ein kleines Blümelein
I suppose people could use this thread to co-ordinate or share their own personal activism and protesting. Although, I wonder if that might be outside the remit of OTC?
 5 Best Of, Fri, 20th Sep '13 3:03:43 PM from Finland Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC!
[up]It probably would.

If we start letting people recruit for various political causes we'll be opening a can of worms that we'd prefer to keep sealed. For instance, if both sides in a debate are recruiting people to protest or sign petitions or something it seems almost inevitable that there would be a flame war. Even worse would be if either side breaks the rules and we have to do something - it will be perceived as favouring the other side, almost certainly. Making judgment calls in complicated situations is hard enough as it is.

This is just my personal opinion, though, and I can't claim to have thought about it much more than it took me to write this post.
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest to children ardent for desperate glory that old lie: dulce et decorum est pro patria mori
 6 demarquis, Fri, 20th Sep '13 3:23:45 PM from Hell, USA Relationship Status: Buried in snow, waiting for spring
Who Am I?
This thread shall be for sharing news, information and commentary on same only. I don't think this will be a problem. We already have similar threads limited to specific regions, and there have been nk such issues there.
“Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty. The obedient must be slaves.”
 7 Best Of, Fri, 20th Sep '13 3:38:01 PM from Finland Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC!
I think this thread will have activity in bursts that are followed by stagnation, but I think this will be an interesting thread to follow and participate in.
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest to children ardent for desperate glory that old lie: dulce et decorum est pro patria mori
 8 demarquis, Fri, 20th Sep '13 3:45:22 PM from Hell, USA Relationship Status: Buried in snow, waiting for spring
Who Am I?
I hope so!
“Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty. The obedient must be slaves.”
 9 Marq FJA, Thu, 26th Sep '13 1:12:50 AM from Saudi Arabia Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
O' Allah, save Egypt
Me too. Just to be clear, political activism by common citizens in Saudi Arabia — where I live, if it wasn't obvious from the Location next to my handle — is a big taboo in the eyes of the government, and more often than not leads to de facto occupational blacklisting and/or imprisonment for "inciting against the state" or some similar charge.
Ash-shaʻb yurīd isqāṭ ḥukm al-ʻaskar
 10 demarquis, Thu, 26th Sep '13 2:02:10 PM from Hell, USA Relationship Status: Buried in snow, waiting for spring
Who Am I?
Do you happen to know if there is a Saudi expatriate community that experiences greater freedom?
“Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty. The obedient must be slaves.”
 11 Marq FJA, Thu, 26th Sep '13 3:33:17 PM from Saudi Arabia Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
O' Allah, save Egypt
Not to my knowledge, no.
Ash-shaʻb yurīd isqāṭ ḥukm al-ʻaskar
 12 Achaemenid, Fri, 4th Oct '13 10:26:43 AM from the dear green place. Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
Ein kleines Blümelein
Why is Russia taking Greenpeace so seriously?

Some context. Greenpeace activists recently tried to board the Pirazlomnaya, an Arctic oil platform operated by Russian energy giant Gazprom. They did so with the nefarious intention of...planting a banner saying how naughty it is to drill in the Arctic. They say that they informed the Russian authorities in advance of their intentions. All were unarmed. Unlike the first time they did this, however, the Greenpeace activists were arrested at gunpoint by Russian security services, taken aboard the Russian Coast Guard vessel Ladoga, and then charged with piracy.

Vice reckon that: A - Arctic drilling is increasingly being seen as a costly failure, and B: Putin is getting paranoid over recent fluctuations in popularity. They also say, citing RIA Novosti, a fairly credible source, that the conviction rate in Russian courts is now 20 times less likely than under Josef Stalin, which astonished me.
 13 Best Of, Fri, 4th Oct '13 11:14:11 AM from Finland Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC!
One of the arrested activists is Finnish. Our party is currently campaigning to have her released, though I don't know how they (we) expect to influence Russia in this case, except by writing angry letters that will be ignored.

That the vessel they're held on is named the Ladoga seems somehow fitting, in the context of the Russian state perpetrating crimes against Finnish people.
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest to children ardent for desperate glory that old lie: dulce et decorum est pro patria mori
 14 De Marquis, Fri, 4th Oct '13 11:56:32 AM from Hell, USA Relationship Status: Buried in snow, waiting for spring
Who Am I?
The definition of piracy according to international law:

''The definition of the crime of piracy is contained in article 101 of UNCLOS, which reads as follows:

''Piracy consists of any of the following acts:

(a) any illegal acts of violence or detention, or any act of depredation, committed for private ends by the crew or the passengers of a private ship or a private aircraft, and directed: (i) on the high seas, against another ship or aircraft, or against persons or property on board such ship or aircraft; (ii) against a ship, aircraft, persons or property in a place outside the jurisdiction of any State;

(b) any act of voluntary participation in the operation of a ship or of an aircraft with knowledge of facts making it a pirate ship or aircraft;

(c) any act of inciting or of intentionally facilitating an act described in subparagraph (a) or (b).

So it seems pretty clear that they are not pirates. I think Russia is taking them so seriously because they are rather paranoid about any form of Western-inspired activism. I think Putin tends to see any organized activism as the seeds of the next "Color Revolt". They are down on any type of political reform movement anywhere- that's one reason they continue to support the Assad regime in Syria.

edited 4th Oct '13 11:56:54 AM by DeMarquis

“Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty. The obedient must be slaves.”
 15 Achaemenid, Fri, 4th Oct '13 12:01:52 PM from the dear green place. Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
Ein kleines Blümelein
Putin knows they aren't pirates. He's just being an asshole.

edited 4th Oct '13 12:02:10 PM by Achaemenid

 16 De Marquis, Fri, 4th Oct '13 3:46:59 PM from Hell, USA Relationship Status: Buried in snow, waiting for spring
Who Am I?
Putin may know it, but they were charged with piracy by a Russian court. Max penalty is 15 years. The Dutch and Netherlands governments are apparently seeking to get their citizens released.

In the meantime, Gazprom is continuing with plans to begin oil production at that site.
“Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty. The obedient must be slaves.”
 17 Greenmantle, Fri, 4th Oct '13 3:49:37 PM from Failing Britannia Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
... and?
I'd always thought since I heard about this story it would be pretty obvious: Greenpeace vs. Vladimir Putin — who do you think will win?
"To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield" — Alfred, Lord Tennyson
 18 De Marquis, Fri, 4th Oct '13 4:16:21 PM from Hell, USA Relationship Status: Buried in snow, waiting for spring
Who Am I?
Define "win". Greenpeace will still be around when Putin is but a footnote in the history books. They may not stop the oil production facility, but their overall point that we have to worry about the effects of human industrial activity on the arctic isnt going away.
“Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty. The obedient must be slaves.”
 19 Barkey, Fri, 4th Oct '13 8:57:17 PM from Bunker 051 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
War Profiteer
To be fair, boarding a vessel without permission is illegal. It doesn't matter if you tell the authorities in advance that you're going to do it.
The AR-15 is responsible for 95% of all deaths each year. The rest of the deaths are from obesity and drone strikes.
 20 Best Of, Sat, 5th Oct '13 4:23:43 AM from Finland Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC!
It's a crime, but it's not piracy.
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest to children ardent for desperate glory that old lie: dulce et decorum est pro patria mori
 21 De Marquis, Sat, 5th Oct '13 4:59:20 AM from Hell, USA Relationship Status: Buried in snow, waiting for spring
Who Am I?
All political protest, to become effective, must eventually break a law. Whether it's a relatively minor law like trespassing, or something major like piracy, depends almost entirely on how the authorities write and define their laws. Russia can define piracy anyway they want to, but that wont stop the protest.
“Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty. The obedient must be slaves.”
 22 Barkey, Sat, 5th Oct '13 6:31:17 AM from Bunker 051 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
War Profiteer
Then there shouldn't be any outrage or surprise when they get thrown in jail for breaking the law.

I'd release the foreign nationals, but ban them from re-entering the country, were it me. But yeah, if I wanted to swim out to the oil rig a few miles out to sea from my house, I'd be arrested, and I sure wouldn't be surprised or outraged.
The AR-15 is responsible for 95% of all deaths each year. The rest of the deaths are from obesity and drone strikes.
 23 Tobias Drake, Sat, 5th Oct '13 7:04:31 AM from Colorado, USA Relationship Status: Married to my murderer
Black Dragon
Then there shouldn't be any outrage or surprise when they get thrown in jail for breaking the law.

This. "You shouldn't send me to prison because I can't perform X without breaking some kind of law, " is the worst logic ever, no matter how it's applied. And frankly, if you're not prepared for that eventuality - to be opposed, to be oppressed, to be potentially arrested or possibly even assassinated if your movement gets going hard enough - then you are not ready to be a revolutionary of any kind.

If the knowing consequence that you will be punished for your movement makes you not willing to do it anyway, then that's a question of just how passionate about this issue you really are.

edited 5th Oct '13 7:05:55 AM by TobiasDrake

 24 De Marquis, Sat, 5th Oct '13 9:21:46 AM from Hell, USA Relationship Status: Buried in snow, waiting for spring
Who Am I?
They expected to be punished in some form. It was the price they were willing to pay. The outrage is over the piracy charges and the potential 15 year prison terms, which is outrageous overkill.

Also, lets not forget the outrage over the environmental degradation that the oil production represents.
“Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty. The obedient must be slaves.”
 25 demarquis, Thu, 10th Oct '13 12:14:38 PM from Hell, USA Relationship Status: Buried in snow, waiting for spring
Who Am I?
So called "Black Block" tactics are starting to be seen on the international stage again. Black block is the term used to describe groups of protesters who conceal their identities with black masks, and are prepared to use property destruction and attacks on police during a street action. Recently, claims have been made that such tactics are being seen in Brazil and, earlier this year, in Egypt. Any opinions?
“Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty. The obedient must be slaves.”
Total posts: 58
1
 2 3


TV Tropes by TV Tropes Foundation, LLC is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License.
Permissions beyond the scope of this license may be available from thestaff@tvtropes.org.
Privacy Policy