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Not Tropeworthy: Hot Mom
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Not Tropeworthy: Hot Mom get usage counts

1. It seems that the trope Hot Mom is so prone to misuse that the Hot Mom page has been locked.

2. The definition of Hot Mom does not have any in-universe requirement, although the page says to list only in-universe examples.

3. Attractiveness tropes are inherently subjective. You may find Actress X to be a Hot Mom; I may not.

4. There is a trope that covers this when it is an in-universe story element: Stacy's Mom. Stacy's Mom and Hot Mom are, in fact, redundant.

5. Hot Mom is usually listed on work pages as examples that boil down to "this actress, who plays a mom, is hot". This isn't actually misuse since, as the trope is written, there is no in-universe requirement. Such examples aren't tropeworthy, and usually boil down to little more than examples of how actresses are more attractive than regular people.

Proposal:

Hot Mom, as a separate trope, should be deleted. Hot Dad, its brother trope, should also be deleted. Both tropes should be made redirects to Stacy's Mom. All examples that are not in-universe examples (such as American Pie and its MILF, or Superbad and how the one kid lusts after the other kid's mom) should be deleted.

Alternate Proposal:

Hot Mom's definition should be revised to a definition that is clearly in-universe (that is, the definition for Stacy's Mom). Stacy's Mom would redirect to Hot Mom. Hot Dad would either redirect to Hot Mom or exist as a separate trope for dads with essentially the same definition.

Thoughts?

(BTW, why is Hot Mom coming up as red-linked when it definitely still exists?)

edited 18th Sep '13 10:37:20 AM by gallium

 2 Septimus Heap, Wed, 18th Sep '13 11:09:38 AM from Muggio Valley, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Puʻu ʻŌʻō
First off, fixed the tag.

Second, Hot Mom is red because a subpage of it (Sandbox.Hot Mom) was cut. Re-editing a subpage fixes the issue.

Third, whatever we do, I think it's worth noting that being a mum usually takes some toll on someone's life, which can make them less attractive-looking.

[up]That would be worth throwing in to a revised definition, yes.

I am not sure which would be better—Stacy's Mom isn't an intuitively obvious name, but OTOH Hot Mom is pretty badly corrupted. What does seem clear is that Hot Mom, as written, needs help.

 4 Larkmarn, Wed, 18th Sep '13 11:50:16 AM Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
I genuinely hate the fact I'm saying this, but I actually think that MILF would be the best title.

It's a common enough real life term that it's recognizable to most, which beats out Stacy's Mom which is an allusion to a song from ten years ago. And unlike Hot Mom, it (or rather, what it stands for) indicates that there's an in-universe element of lusting after a mother.

But yeah, at the very, very least Hot Mom needs an In-Universe mentioning it. "I think the actress is hot and plays a mom" is not a trope. "The characters comment on how a mother is attractive" is a bit better.

edited 18th Sep '13 11:50:32 AM by Larkmarn

 5 Septimus Heap, Wed, 18th Sep '13 11:55:39 AM from Muggio Valley, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Puʻu ʻŌʻō
Note that we have Informed Attractiveness. We can't have a trope that is "Informed Attractiveness but for mums", unless we have some other factor like the one I mentioned above about mums being less likely to be attractive.

[up][up] Mom I'd Like to F### does not indicate anything is In-Universe. I would prefer Stacy's Mom, but that could be because I'm more of a prude. See the fact I bleeped the acronym as evidence.
Still new. Still learning. Asking questions and making mistakes.
Are Hot Mom and Stacy's Mom just subsets of Informed Attractiveness then? If so then each need to be deleted. If Hot Mom and Stacy's Mom are something distinct from Informed Attractiveness then they need to somehow be combined into one trope.

It seems like we have three tropes that are more or less saying the same thing and at least one of them needs to go.

As for the trope name MILF, I was about to agree that an acronym with a curse word isn't the best idea (and I love using bad words) when I remembered GIFT. So, I dunno.

 8 Septimus Heap, Wed, 18th Sep '13 2:37:24 PM from Muggio Valley, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Puʻu ʻŌʻō
Stacy's Mom is something completely different. A young character - usually male - is after an adult woman.

Stacy's Mom is about a character's friend finding their mom attractive.

Hot Mom is a lot broader and is supposed to be a character who's a mother and is portrayed as attractive (Fanservice Tropes, Beauty Tropes, or other characters finding her attractive).

As far how to fix Hot Mom, I recommend rewriting the description to emphasize it's about how the character is portrayed and then cleaning up the wicks.

 10 Septimus Heap, Wed, 18th Sep '13 2:43:16 PM from Muggio Valley, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Puʻu ʻŌʻō
I do not see any menton of "mother" in Stacy's Mom, sorry.

[up] My bad, I used the laconic. Either way it's pretty clear Stacy's Mom is not Hot Mom.

edited 18th Sep '13 2:46:43 PM by captainpat

 12 Septimus Heap, Wed, 18th Sep '13 2:47:37 PM from Muggio Valley, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Puʻu ʻŌʻō
I changed Laconic.Stacys Mom. Better now?

[up] good

Stacy's Mom

[quote]In media where the protagonists are somewhere between pre-teens and twenty-somethings, there's usually at least one character older than the other protagonists thrown in. This character is often the Team Mom, The Obi-Wan, etc. Due to Hollywood Homely, they're often also a Hot Mom or Hot Dad. Sometimes, in addition to just being attractive and wise in general, an older character attracts the romantic attention of one or even most of the younger characters.[/quote]

Hot Mom

[quote]Many series have a mother (often a Christmas Cake) who is noticeably attractive - in appearance and disposition, she is more often than not hot enough to give Mrs. Robinson a run for her money. She is almost inevitably an Absurdly Youthful Mother and as a rule, Hilarity Ensues as she will almost certainly be mistaken for her children's cute big-sister, much to their embarrassment.[/quote]

Hot Dad

[quote]The Hot Dad, a male parental figure that caters to the female (or male) demographic's wants and desires. The Hot Dad possesses an appearance more fitting for half his age, and is often a widower. He dotes on his daughter with a borderline-homicidal protectiveness should any male her age even glance at her. If his wife is still alive she is almost always a Hot Mom. To the utter embarrassment of their child, they act like high-schoolers in love in front of his/her friends. Sometimes abbreviated as a DILF, short for "Daddy I'd Like (to) Fuck."[/quote]

I can't agree that there is a difference between Stacy Mom and Hot Mom. Or, to put it differently, there are two manifestations of Hot Mom:

1. Characters refer to the mom as attractive, lust after the mom. This is the same as Stacy's Mom, and also the same as Informed Attractiveness, just Informed Attractiveness of a mom as noted above.

2. Examples that aren't in-universe where an actress who plays a mom is listed as Hot Mom just because the actress is sexy. Those examples are subjective and not tropable.

 15 Septimus Heap, Wed, 18th Sep '13 3:07:31 PM from Muggio Valley, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Puʻu ʻŌʻō
Informed Attractiveness is about someone being called attractive by a character In-Universe. Stacy's Mom is about a younger character going after a middle aged woman. Not seeing at all how one covers the other. Sure, Informed Attractiveness may be part of a Stacy's Mom situation, but obligatory it isn't.

Also, a hot mum can be an example of Stacy's Mom, but doesn't have to. Neither are all examples of Stacy's Mom examples of mothers and thus Hot Mom.

edited 18th Sep '13 3:09:30 PM by SeptimusHeap

Stacy's Mom does not require "going after" a parent. It doesn't require any active pursuit. It appears to require nothing more than "Stifler's mom is a MILF!". If I'm in a TV show and I say that the neighbor lady is really hot, then it's Informed Attractiveness. If I say she's hot, and she's also someone's mom, it's Stacy's Mom—so as near as I can tell Stacy's Mom is simply a subset of Informed Attractiveness. A Hot Mom, on the other hand, is any character who happens to be a mom and is played by an attractive actress.

[up] That's not what Hot Mom is and the definition has been stated repeatedly.

Also, please read the requirement for Stacy's Mom, it's a lot more specific than a character finding someone else's mother attractive.

 18 0dd 1, Wed, 18th Sep '13 8:16:55 PM from Nowhere Land
Just awesome like that
[up]Maybe that's not how the trope was intended, but that's how its wide misuse has manifested. The trope has drifted too much to be salvaged.

As for Stacy's Mom, well, let's look at the Wikipedia summary for the Trope Namer:
"Stacy's Mom" is about an adolescent boy's fantasies about his female friend Stacy's attractive mother (MILF). The boy spends time with Stacy in an attempt to get closer to her mother; hence the name of the song
I'm not sure that much specificity is required there. The chorus is literally just "Stacy's mom has got it going on." That seems like enough.

Also supporting a merge/cleanup/rename to MILF.
Insert witty and clever quip here.

My page, as the database hates my handle.

My music.
[up] There's currently no misuse on the page and as far as wicks are concerned, from my specific viewpoint, this trope isn't being misused so much as it's attracting a lot of zero context examples and subjectively written examples. Basically poorly written examples seem to be the problem here.

edited 18th Sep '13 8:30:11 PM by captainpat

 20 0dd 1, Wed, 18th Sep '13 8:43:13 PM from Nowhere Land
Just awesome like that
this trope isn't being misused so much as it's attracting a lot of zero context examples and subjectively written examples
That counts as misuse.
Insert witty and clever quip here.

My page, as the database hates my handle.

My music.
[up] I don't think so. Changing the definition or a merging with another trope isn't gonna stop it. We actually need to clean its wicks.

Edit: previous trs thread for this trope.

edited 18th Sep '13 8:51:04 PM by captainpat

Cut Hot Mom and merge with Stacy's Mom, name TBD, under the definition "a young character is attracted to a friend's mother." And clean up all the bad wicks of course.

Mother Who is Attractive is not a trope, nor is Mother More Attractive Than We'd Expect the Real Life Equivalent to Be — people of every single occupation imaginable are portrayed as more attractive on-screen, simply because viewers like looking at more attractive people. (Similarly, "attractive journalist, " "attractive policeman, " "attractive doctor, " and "attractive lawyer" aren't tropes, though we have pages for almost all of them.) But when there's some storyline significance beyond "actors are attractive", it's a trope i.e. Stacy's Mom.

edited 18th Sep '13 11:26:49 PM by AmyGdala

 23 Septimus Heap, Wed, 18th Sep '13 11:33:36 PM from Muggio Valley, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Puʻu ʻŌʻō
Stacy's Mom is not about mums being attractive. It's about very young (Teens to twenties) men going after adult women. It has nothing to do with Hot Mom. You can't merge them

 24 the Adeptrogue, Wed, 18th Sep '13 11:35:42 PM Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Must they be merged? Attractiveness and attraction does not always go hand-in-hand, IMO, although they frequently overlap.

ETA: [up] Although based on that definition, wouldn't Stacy's Mom overlap with/is a subtrope to Likes Older Women?

edited 18th Sep '13 11:37:32 PM by theAdeptrogue

[up] There's a difference between a character liking an older woman and having a preference for older women.

Page Action: Hot Mom 3
7th Oct '13 7:23:28 AM
What would be the best way to fix the page?
At issue:
Hot Mom is prone to misuse and is not distinct from Stacy's Mom. It has been suggested that Hot Mom is not tropeworthy. What should we do about this?
Total posts: 205
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